OLD Modified Corvettes

[randy wilson]

Do any of you guys think it would be worth the time to send Scott Gardner a set of our thoughts?

[Mike Taylor 3601]

I loved modified back in the day and when I grew up that is what I wanted to race,but I been around this my whole life and I know what it cost and now of what it cost back in the day,everything you put out there is correct,and if start allowing vac.pumps,ext.oil pumps,anything besides the spec head,then it is useless to even do it ,just go ahead and build ?/SM and run in comp.
Even with these restrictions in all honesty it still would not be cheap,I would say it would cost somewhere between stock/super stock,I say more than lower class stocker,about even w/higher classed stocker,less than higher classed ss or ss/mod about even w/lower classed ss'er, but changes would not be coming up every year if rules were left alone.

I would say that if modified had survived today as it was, it would cost as much or more than comp,
comp has cic,modified had nothing to keep it in check. In some aspects mod still lives,some in SS,some in comp, SS/?M is pretty much ?/MP car ?/SM is close to ?/Gas
?/A in comp is close to altered classes were in mod. dragster classes are in comp.along with econo classes
Could anyone comment on engine/cylinder heads$in 70's,my Dad always told me when welded heads,came about is when cost really started going wild.
He told me some prices of short block's,welded heads in early 70's that some guys were getting,just curious to hear others figures.

Mike Taylor 3601

[randy wilson]

Mike, thanks. If the ONLY difference is the cylinder head, then cost is only going to be between $10,000, and $20,000 dollars different. What ruined econo altered, econo dragster, etc. was they ALLOWED them to break the rules, and it is what it is today. Anything but econo. Brodix should have the final say on the heads. PERIOD. NEVER LET IT BE ANY OTHER WAY!. You still would have a lot of ingenuity in the rest. Clutches alone would save you thousands a year by limiting them. No sheet metal manifolds would be a plus. I don't care if you send it to Carl Foltz, you won't be able to spend more then $1,000 on one with NO EXTERNAL MODS. What's your thoughts on stud mounted rocker arms, other then Mopar? And .750 max. lift at the valve? I think it would take a lot of the cost down. And Titanium valves? I also own several sets of T&D's, and Jesel stuff for 23 degree, but think stud mounted is by far cheaper, and more challenging.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Do any of you guys think it would be worth the time to send Scott Gardner a set of our thoughts?

Refer to my previous post. I've even read this thread and still have no idea what the rules would be, who would build these cars, how many cars there would be, if it would be a participant-based class, a spectator-based class, what would draw sponsors to the class, ad infinitum...

If you send an e-mail saying, "Hey, we want to run old cars kinda like Modified only totally different, like a cheap version of Super Stock", nobody's going to know what you're talking about, and it would be likely to get little response more than, "OK, that's nice."

You need a BUSINESS PLAN. Until you can put together a coherent, solid program here, you're not ready to approach sanctioning bodies, tracks, promoters, or sponsors. That plan or program may go through some adjustments over time, but you need a solid starting point.

I don't say any of this to be a downer: on the contrary, I hope it motivates and focuses your efforts. Get a baseline, and write it up in an outline or rulebook format, and post it here. Refine, and then tackle the business plan end of things. Just like with any business, marketing, or sponsor deal, the person on the receiving end is primarily going to be interested in how it benefits THEM. That explanation is going to have to be more precise than "Because it's wicked cool." Ask yourself all the questions that anyone in those positions would ask you, and try to answer them.


...if you want to equalize the playing field and reduce the ability to make gains by spending money, limit both the intake and exhaust -- and I'm not talking about the cylinder heads or camshafts... think air.

[randy wilson]

In response to Michael Beard's post. I agree. These are not rules, just an idea. If I print the rules, it will be influenced by MY thinking. I'm just trying to feel it out, and see what MOST want. When I wrote em for my track, it was simple. I had to try and include 40, or 50 local boys. This is a little different. Our old heads up website has since been cancelled, or you could observe that we were pretty explicit. I know you're trying to be helpful, but I honestly don't know the proper way to approach this, other then maybe getting Brodix to do it on their own, and that's a stretch. I truly could write up a rule, that looks professional. Then is that the rules? I doubt either NHRA, or IHRA give a damn what I think, so no, I don't actually know what I'm doing.

[Michael Beard]

As I said, you just need a baseline. Again, I've read this thread and have absolutely no idea where the class is right now except a spec head. Right now you have ideas scattered through 10 pages of this post. Consolidate everything into one post, written up in an easy-to-read outline that everyone can follow. Discuss, tweak and amend. It doesn't have to be 100% final absolute -- there will always going to be adjustments made down the road.

The Class Nationals planning thread went the same way. The idea we started out with isn't where we ended up, but we put forth a fairly solid plan and revised as we went until arriving at the final product. Even at this point, we know that there will be changes made in 2015, but we need to get the first year under our belt to have real data and make informed decisions on scheduling, classes, etc.

[randy wilson]

Ok, Here goes. CLASS: ECONO MOD
81 and older cars. No front wheel drive conversions.
9 lbs. per C.I.D.
Min. wt. 3,000 lbs.
Max. 1 750 cfm carb. Choke horn must remain. Baseplate standard 750.
Ford, Mopar, and GM only. Brodix spec head. Only mods allowed angle milling, and polishing combustion chamber. 11\32 valve min. 2.08 max. Titanium allowed.
Cast intake generally available. No external mods. Max 2" spacer.
Any piston, any rod, any crank, any ring package, any bore, any stroke.
No vac pumps, external oil pumps, belt drives, or internal billet pumps allowed.
No computers allowed.
No titanium, or carbon fiber driveline parts allowed, except carbon fiber drive shaft for safety reasons.
Max. 1 clutch disc, no smaller then 10.5 inch. No counter wts. allowed.
Max. primary tube size on header 2". No more then 2 steps on header.
Motor plates allowed.
Cool can allowed.
SpecC-12 VP fuel
Cam lift .750 max at the valve.
Stud mount rockers only, except Mopar.
14.32 max tire size.
Wheelie wheels permitted.
Max
RPM chip allowed. No other chips allowed.
Play back tach allowed.
Maximum 5 forward gears. CLUTCH MUST BE USED IN ALL 5 GEARS IN THE TRUE CONVENTIONAL MANNER.
Removable tunnel allowed.
No more then 50\50 wt transfer.
.4 pro tree only.
Cam must be in stock location, remain stock diameter for engine used.
Lifters must be stock diameter. Roller cams, and lifters allowed.
Any radiator in stock location.
Engine in stock location, plus, or minus 1"
Distributor must remain in stock location.
Crank trigger allowed.
Any head under suspicion must be sent to Brodix, and $500 fee put up for the expense of protested.
After market balancers required. Min, 8 pt cage. (up to NHRA)
1" site plug required in oil pan to inspect pump.
.Autos remove 100 lbs. Must still maintain min wt.

[joespanova]

Those rules have to be changed to suit this , or I can't possibly sign off on them

[Dick Butler]

Excellent. Question about cheaper short block might be Sight hole to observe Stock type crank and rods?(No aluminum rods,use nhra accepted rod for motor.)No Knife edge, no odd metal crank. Is this worth it?

[randy wilson]

Dick, Joe, discuss. I'm open to anything. We had to start somewhere.Also, I see nothing wrong with that car. Allow 2 fours, and add wt.