OLD Modified Corvettes - Page 27

randy wilson · 12-19-2013, 09:43 PM

Also, any idiot can stand by the guard rail, and tell real easy if someone is clutching, or not. It ain't that hard. Then, protest them. By the way, the new clutchless stuff is just an overpriced 5 speed automatic. A trained monkey could drive one. By the way, we have 3 of them.

joespanova · 12-19-2013, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Also, any idiot can stand by the guard rail, and tell real easy if someone is clutching, or not. It ain't that hard. Then, protest them. By the way, the new clutchless stuff is just an overpriced 5 speed automatic. A trained monkey could drive one. By the way, we have 3 of them.

AMEN
I must be one of the last few percenters who DOES actually clutch every gear change.

And to the guy who suggested any one of several comp racers would make a mockery of the class in no time............yeah sure , whatever pal..........get over yourselves.

Rick Shirey · 12-19-2013, 11:31 PM

Randy what is your thinking with the 1981 and earlier models? I have a 1983 Camaro that is super stock legal and I am sure there are a lot of other super stock legal cars that are either sitting or being bracket raced that the owners would have an interest in a class such as this. I may seem quite naïve but I see nothing wrong with modeling this class after the original C/SM class. As a matter of fact I used to own a rather well known former east coast C/SM car originally owned by Ed Racis which I ran in SS/CS. Before I sold it a friend of mine tried to talk me into restoring it as it was raced back in the C/SM days. When I purchased the car I was given a car magazine that had the car on the cover as well as an in-depth article which described how popular the C/SM class had become. There had to be a reason why the original C/SM class was so popular and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be seriously interested in seeing something similar done now. I would however like to use the previously mentioned car I already own, a 1983 Camaro.

randy wilson · 12-20-2013, 05:42 AM

Rick, I ain't against any car being in this class. I was told to get some ground rules, so I just tossed this out there. I think if cars far more aerodynamically superior carried a little wt, let em in. And I'm all for bringing back C\SM, except, C was dominated by GM, and B was dominated by Ford. And we all know why. My reasoning is, never in history have we been given the opportunity to run 3 sets of heads, from 3 manufacturers, that are almost identical. And they say they were cheaper back in the day. I can't argue that, but damn, I can buy a bare spec head for a shade over $400. That's at least reasonable.

Mike Taylor 3601 · 12-20-2013, 07:59 AM

What I like about spec head is the parity between all three brands,I don't think there is any other way to do that as evenly as spec head would.,the heads are the best air restriction you can have,in my opinion.

If driver happens to be good enough sounds clutchless,watch tires or wheelie bars they won't lie,wheelie bars will sit still on gear changes and tires won't get mashed to rims,use clutch wheelie bars will twitch and tires will get mashed on gear changes and clutching help produce those lovely 3rd/4th gear wheelies/bounces.
Short story my Dad in 1988 went 9.14 in vega w/T-10 would loved to had on video,carried wheels through every gear,carried them about a foot high in 4th for a ways, needless to say the ol T-10 was annilated,a few passes later,he just had sold 500 automatic trans cores@$10.00 each,,that paid for a brand new 4spd Liberty equalizer,so I told everyone I figured a Liberty was 500 times better than a automatic,I would get this weird stare from them trying to figure out how I come up w/those statistics,then I would tell them about selling 500 autos to get 1 liberty.
Mike Taylor 3601

randy wilson · 12-20-2013, 10:39 AM

Mike, the spec head is the deal. And maybe I'm taking this wrong, but if I were a comp guy, looking at this class, and someone was already telling all interested, that the comp guys will come in there and cheat you to death, I'd be more then a little offended. What part of no, zero, nada mods to the heads other then polishing the combustion chamber, and angle milling would they not understand? ANY other mod would be considered cheating. Tell me where there is a grey area. I would take a finished head, let everyone gawk at it, send it in, let Brodix examine it, then say try fooling them now boys.

Dick Butler · 12-20-2013, 12:20 PM

Randy SPec head IS the answer. Shaft rockers ok and level field. Al rods OK if costs same as Steel but open to either. Like the access hole in pan. Limiting cost of exotic crank prep is thought. Could small journal cranks etc be detected or cared about?
Is trans brake open for auto cars? Air Shifter for 1 -2 only? I raced 30 years with foot brake but might be stick advantage on Pro tree according to TOP/SS guys we had.

randy wilson · 12-20-2013, 01:12 PM

Dick, I ain't overly concerned about let's say, a honda journal versus a small journal. I've ran both, and if that beats you, you're real close to kicking their ***. We could use the sight plug to keep out the ultra trick cranks, such as journal drilled, and or knife edging. The rest is miniscule. And rings, to be honest with you, without the pump, those $1,300 dollar rings lose a lot of their appeal. Now I know some will say I'm wrong, and I may be, but I will let all know upfront, I'll probably run a 2 ring piston, with a gapless 0.043. But, that's just me. Rods, I have built a tad more power with steel rods, but then again, I will chose a GRP, or MGP rod, because I like them better. The sight hole is the way to go. I just want tear down to be a breeze, not a pain in the butt. I am open for ANY suggestions. Trans brake. Do allow. They can cut 4 0's with them then, just like us, with the pro brake.

randy wilson · 12-20-2013, 01:21 PM

Just as a point of reference, on the clutches, what is quicker is dependent on the total combination. We've ran sprung center buttons, solid buttons, sprung center rag, solid rag, cintered iron, aluminum hats, steel hats, aluminum flywheels, light wt. aluminum flywheels, steel flywheels, heavy steel flywheels, and when clutching every gear, you would not believe which combo is quite a bit quicker.

Dick Butler · 12-20-2013, 01:28 PM

Laughing, and would you like to share which is faster..... Ha ha... No I do not expect you to do that. We all have a learning curve and I appreciate you have a great deal of experience. My fun has been auto but still limited and small stuff DOES make big differences.

12-19-2013, 09:43 PM	#261
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Also, any idiot can stand by the guard rail, and tell real easy if someone is clutching, or not. It ain't that hard. Then, protest them. By the way, the new clutchless stuff is just an overpriced 5 speed automatic. A trained monkey could drive one. By the way, we have 3 of them. __________________ don,t have one

12-19-2013, 11:31 PM	#263
Rick Shirey Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 53 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Randy what is your thinking with the 1981 and earlier models? I have a 1983 Camaro that is super stock legal and I am sure there are a lot of other super stock legal cars that are either sitting or being bracket raced that the owners would have an interest in a class such as this. I may seem quite naïve but I see nothing wrong with modeling this class after the original C/SM class. As a matter of fact I used to own a rather well known former east coast C/SM car originally owned by Ed Racis which I ran in SS/CS. Before I sold it a friend of mine tried to talk me into restoring it as it was raced back in the C/SM days. When I purchased the car I was given a car magazine that had the car on the cover as well as an in-depth article which described how popular the C/SM class had become. There had to be a reason why the original C/SM class was so popular and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be seriously interested in seeing something similar done now. I would however like to use the previously mentioned car I already own, a 1983 Camaro.

12-20-2013, 05:42 AM	#264
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Rick, I ain't against any car being in this class. I was told to get some ground rules, so I just tossed this out there. I think if cars far more aerodynamically superior carried a little wt, let em in. And I'm all for bringing back C\SM, except, C was dominated by GM, and B was dominated by Ford. And we all know why. My reasoning is, never in history have we been given the opportunity to run 3 sets of heads, from 3 manufacturers, that are almost identical. And they say they were cheaper back in the day. I can't argue that, but damn, I can buy a bare spec head for a shade over $400. That's at least reasonable. __________________ don,t have one

12-20-2013, 07:59 AM	#265
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,365 Likes: 342 Liked 286 Times in 99 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes What I like about spec head is the parity between all three brands,I don't think there is any other way to do that as evenly as spec head would.,the heads are the best air restriction you can have,in my opinion. If driver happens to be good enough sounds clutchless,watch tires or wheelie bars they won't lie,wheelie bars will sit still on gear changes and tires won't get mashed to rims,use clutch wheelie bars will twitch and tires will get mashed on gear changes and clutching help produce those lovely 3rd/4th gear wheelies/bounces. Short story my Dad in 1988 went 9.14 in vega w/T-10 would loved to had on video,carried wheels through every gear,carried them about a foot high in 4th for a ways, needless to say the ol T-10 was annilated,a few passes later,he just had sold 500 automatic trans cores@$10.00 each,,that paid for a brand new 4spd Liberty equalizer,so I told everyone I figured a Liberty was 500 times better than a automatic,I would get this weird stare from them trying to figure out how I come up w/those statistics,then I would tell them about selling 500 autos to get 1 liberty. Mike Taylor 3601

12-20-2013, 10:39 AM	#266
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Mike, the spec head is the deal. And maybe I'm taking this wrong, but if I were a comp guy, looking at this class, and someone was already telling all interested, that the comp guys will come in there and cheat you to death, I'd be more then a little offended. What part of no, zero, nada mods to the heads other then polishing the combustion chamber, and angle milling would they not understand? ANY other mod would be considered cheating. Tell me where there is a grey area. I would take a finished head, let everyone gawk at it, send it in, let Brodix examine it, then say try fooling them now boys. __________________ don,t have one

12-20-2013, 12:20 PM	#267
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Randy SPec head IS the answer. Shaft rockers ok and level field. Al rods OK if costs same as Steel but open to either. Like the access hole in pan. Limiting cost of exotic crank prep is thought. Could small journal cranks etc be detected or cared about? Is trans brake open for auto cars? Air Shifter for 1 -2 only? I raced 30 years with foot brake but might be stick advantage on Pro tree according to TOP/SS guys we had.

12-20-2013, 01:12 PM	#268
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Dick, I ain't overly concerned about let's say, a honda journal versus a small journal. I've ran both, and if that beats you, you're real close to kicking their **. We could use the sight plug to keep out the ultra trick cranks, such as journal drilled, and or knife edging. The rest is miniscule. And rings, to be honest with you, without the pump, those $1,300 dollar rings lose a lot of their appeal. Now I know some will say I'm wrong, and I may be, but I will let all know upfront, I'll probably run a 2 ring piston, with a gapless 0.043. But, that's just me. Rods, I have built a tad more power with steel rods, but then again, I will chose a GRP, or MGP rod, because I like them better. The sight hole is the way to go. I just want tear down to be a breeze, not a pain in the butt. I am open for ANY suggestions. Trans brake. Do allow. They can cut 4 0's with them then, just like us, with the pro brake. __________________ don,t have one Last edited by randy wilson; 12-20-2013 at 01:27 PM.*

12-20-2013, 01:21 PM	#269
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Just as a point of reference, on the clutches, what is quicker is dependent on the total combination. We've ran sprung center buttons, solid buttons, sprung center rag, solid rag, cintered iron, aluminum hats, steel hats, aluminum flywheels, light wt. aluminum flywheels, steel flywheels, heavy steel flywheels, and when clutching every gear, you would not believe which combo is quite a bit quicker. __________________ don,t have one

12-20-2013, 01:28 PM	#270
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: OLD Modified Corvettes Laughing, and would you like to share which is faster..... Ha ha... No I do not expect you to do that. We all have a learning curve and I appreciate you have a great deal of experience. My fun has been auto but still limited and small stuff DOES make big differences.