Anybody Use Performance Welding Headers?

[Denny Steward]

If you are looking for max performance and a great fit without having all the sales pitch BULL. Call Mark @ ComFab he is in NC. He has been building headers for myself and many of my customers for years, he also builds alot of the Pro Stock and Comp headers. His number is (336) 662-4959 tell him I told you to call you will not regret it.

[Ronnie Hamlin]

All of the above turn out great headers. You might want to call Jere Stahl 717-846-1632.

[Jeff Lee]

Back to the original question, stainless does offer a HP improvement. The pulses react differently to stainless than steel tubing. I can't say that from experience as I've never had the pleasure to own such a set. That's what my engine builder says. He also says some internal coatings (not ceramic based) are a good alternative. He DOES have the before / after to back up the stainless or coated headers vs. regular steel.
Maybe our engineer SSDiv6 can chime in...

[Bill Grubbs]

Originally Posted by mannymen

Bill Grubbs $3200 for 13hp and 15 tq? Is that about right?

Talk to Calvin on the cost as some cars require more work than others. If you have a 1st gen Camaro or a second gen Nova he has a jig and does not need the car, For others he will need the car as they are custom built for each specific car/frame/steering/engine mounts/engine combination.

Even though the cost is not inexpensive dollar wise...when you get to the +1 under area his cost for HP and torque is very reasonable. In this area you can spend multiples of the header cost and still not gain nearly as much as you will with his headers.

Basically for a .3-.5 under car, money can be better spent in other areas. It all comes down to the HP per dollar equation. However, with the 'Law of Diminishing Returns" there will be a time when the cost per HPfor the headers will be less expensive compared to other options.

Bill

[Jim Wahl]

Well said Bill and I do understand your point. I am looking for maximum hp from whatever header I choose. Headers are very expensive now, that has become painfully obvious to me as of late. The reason I asked about Performance Welding is because George Widuch uses them and recommended them to me. As you may know he built my car as well as all of Jerry Bennett's cars. I called Mark Leichook at PW and he told me he owns the 340 Dodge that Wann drives and I think he is very much in tune with all that George has taught me. The mild steel headers on the car were made by Don Chromer many years ago and the only thing holding them together was the Nitroplate coating!

Jeff, Mark told me you are correct, SS headers make more HP because of the way the exhaust pulsing reacts to it. He said they don't get many requests for mild steel tubing anymore. There must be a reason why all the Pro Stock and Comp guys run nothing but SS headers.

Ron, I ran Jere Stahl's headers on my SS car many, many years ago. They are a high quality header also.I still have them. Jim

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Back to the original question, stainless does offer a HP improvement. The pulses react differently to stainless than steel tubing. I can't say that from experience as I've never had the pleasure to own such a set. That's what my engine builder says. He also says some internal coatings (not ceramic based) are a good alternative. He DOES have the before / after to back up the stainless or coated headers vs. regular steel.
Maybe our engineer SSDiv6 can chime in...

I will keep it simple because header design is a science that involves many parameters and the discussion can go for years due to the many theories and principles.

The use of stainless steel as header material does not have anything to do with exhaust pulses. The dampening of the exhaust pulse can be controlled with any steel if you vary its thickness or gage. In fact, the aircraft industry uses Inconel. The real factors are undisturbed exhaust gas mass and density, MACH/Supersonic exhaust speed and the heat transfer advantage the stainless steel material offers.

Because mild steel headers will deteriorate due to heat and corrosion, many racers will coat the headers internally to make them last longer. Do not get me wrong, keeping the heat inside the headers for a short time, is a good thing. However, when you coat the headers internally it has other effects such as reducing the exhaust velocity, and as a result, affecting heat transfer. Therefore, when you have a stainless steel header, you do not have the issue of reduced exhaust velocity and heat transfer because you do not have to coat the header internally.

Exhaust coatings have their place in applications of extreme heat such as turbocharged engines. In this type of application, a Ceramic coating is beneficial because too much heat can slow down the supersonic exhaust velocity downstream.

Again, it is an issue of much you want to spend. If you have a mild steel header and coated for longevity, you will give up some power. If you have the money, a well-designed stainless steel header will give you longevity and power. I said, “well designed” because I have noticed too many cars at the track with header designs that are either too big, too long or too short for their intent.

[Jim Wahl]

WOW! Lots of good info. Thank you sir! Jim

[Kenny Wigington]

Since no one else has, I have to ask the question, in all seriousness. How much HP are we talking about, material for material ? 1% to 5%, what is the real number, on 300 hp ? On 400, or 600 HP?

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Kenny Wigington

Since no one else has, I have to ask the question, in all seriousness. How much HP are we talking about, material for material ? 1% to 5%, what is the real number, on 300 hp ? On 400, or 600 HP?

Material does not have the effect claimed. It is the design of the header that makes the power. Like I said in my previous post, if you coat the inside of the header, then you are compromising performance. If you have a stainless header, then you do not have to coat the inside.

[Jeff Lee]

Eric Bell, who has a "reasonably fast" 440-6 SS/E & FA Challenger, went from the header builder I have always used to Performance Welding. As I recall, in back-to-back dyno testing the PW headers were worth 15+ HP.
His style in building headers (from what I have seen) is exactly what I think is a prerequisite over "tuned length" headers, that is, Mark wants long stubs off the exhaust port and "swoopy" curves more so than being +/- 1/4".