3sp to 4sp manual - Page 4

Robert Simpson · 12-07-2015, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

This not correct then?
Someone from a concerned party needs to ask why not.

Not as per the 2016 rule book. In Stock the trans rules (For use of forward gears) does not match that of SS for the sticks. BUT for Autos in S, as you know, you can run a metric behind a PG combo etc. But, it looks like until someone ask the NHRA with a letter will allow a 4sp to replace a 3sp maual in stock.

Sorry again Mark.

Sean Marconette · 12-07-2015, 01:29 PM

It's a simple phone call, or email to Danny or Bruce will get the ball rolling. That's why I suggested it be done by Phil, as it directly effects him and his car, he can be specific with the combo that this relates to. It's clear on the auto trans, but not on the stick with the rule.

Sean

Dave Muller · 12-07-2015, 01:35 PM

Seems clear enough to me:

TRANSMISSION, Manual
OEM or NHRA-accepted aftermarket transmissions having same
number of forward speeds (O.D. gear not required) as original, and
reverse, may be used. All gear changes must result from direct
action by the driver. Pneumatic, hydraulic, electric, etc. shifters
prohibited. Floor-shift conversion kits permitted. Clutchless
transmissions prohibited. Clutch must be used to change gears in
a conventional manner. See General Regulations 2:12.

It doesn't make sense to me that stick should be treated differently that automatic in this regard, so I wish you all luck in getting it changed.

T Ames · 12-07-2015, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey Ghost

I want to update from the Mopar electronic race ignition to an MSD. What is the difference between the 6AL and the 6AL-2. Both have 2 step and listed output is simular. Both are suppose to work with the Mopar distributor. Anyone have a preference.

Hello Phil. The 6AL provides an allowance for the addition of a two step while the 6AL-2 has the two step built in. I use the 6AL with a two step module along with a Mopar distributor. It works fine. I'd opt for the unit with a built in two step though if starting from scratch.

Sean Marconette · 12-08-2015, 01:18 PM

Phil,
I just spoke to Bob Blackwell our D5 tech director, and you will need to submit this for a rule change. Bob did not have to think very long before he answered, so it is a no. It's not a big deal to get the ball rolling to at least get this reviewed. I pointed out the clarification on the auto trans so that is your ringer. Why can an auto car that came with a 2 speed run a 3 speed, but a stick car that came with a 3 speed not be able to use a readily available 4 speed? The sooner you get something submitted the better off you will be.

The first G-Force I bought was from Jim Voth, it was a 5 speed as I am allowed to run one, but Jim could not, so he had removed the gear for 5th to be legal. It was another neutral, I do not remember if he did anything with the shifter as that was not part of the purchase. So you will be stuck with something like that, but worse and some not very ideal gear ratio combinations with a 3 speed.

I hope I did not muddy the water for you.

Sean

Adger Smith · 12-08-2015, 02:22 PM

At one time I think there was an allowance for a car that was offered with overdrive.
Like, the three speed with overdrive option is allowed a 4 speed.
Or was it just talked about?
I think Dwight or someone that still has a memory.might be able to help my memory on that one.

Dwight Southerland · 12-08-2015, 05:46 PM

Adger, that was just talked about. That came about because supposedly you could take a BW T-85 three speed with overdrive and with some case modifications install a T-10 separator plate and tail housing with 4-speed guts. I don't know for a fact it was ever done, but some old Ford guys claimed it and argued that it should be legal. It falls into all that stuff about what do you do with a 5-speed od manual and 4-speed od automatic: Is it a 5 speed so you can run a Liberty or Doug Nash or Jerico 5-speed. Is it a 4-speed so you could build a 4-speed automatic?

Wait for the rule book. After all, what passes tech is what is legal, not what the factories built.

Grey Ghost · 12-09-2015, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Marconette

It's a simple phone call, or email to Danny or Bruce will get the ball rolling. That's why I suggested it be done by Phil, as it directly effects him and his car, he can be specific with the combo that this relates to. It's clear on the auto trans, but not on the stick with the rule.

Sean

Thanks Sean,

I will give Bob a call and find out what I need to do to get this under consideration. I did email him a couple weeks before I posted this thread but have not recieved a reply (email may have ended up in his spam folder).
Car in question is a 62 Plymouth. From everything I have been able to find out Chrysler offered the B-W 3sp in 62 and 63 as their manual trans. I did read they were experimenting with different 4speeds those yrs with poor results. They developed their own 4sp (NP 833) and offered it in 64. I used a DNE in my 64 330 with a 4sp shifter and an additional 5th/rev lever.

Grey Ghost · 01-24-2016, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Marconette

It's a simple phone call, or email to Danny or Bruce will get the ball rolling. That's why I suggested it be done by Phil, as it directly effects him and his car, he can be specific with the combo that this relates to. It's clear on the auto trans, but not on the stick with the rule.

Sean

Update on this thread. I submitted a rule change review request to Bob Blackwell Div 5 Tech. Recieved an email from him the other day in which he said "The committee has voted to look at this for a 2017 Rule change".

Thank you Mr. Blackwell and to all for your support.

Phil

Shadylane · 01-24-2016, 05:52 PM

How about replacing a Ford SROD in a Fox body with a Jerico or Toploader?

12-07-2015, 01:29 PM	#32
Sean Marconette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 977 Likes: 792 Liked 275 Times in 76 Posts	Re: 3sp to 4sp manual It's a simple phone call, or email to Danny or Bruce will get the ball rolling. That's why I suggested it be done by Phil, as it directly effects him and his car, he can be specific with the combo that this relates to. It's clear on the auto trans, but not on the stick with the rule. Sean __________________ Sean Marconette 84 Mustang 5060 SS/N

12-07-2015, 01:35 PM	#33
Dave Muller Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 497 Likes: 162 Liked 223 Times in 73 Posts	Re: 3sp to 4sp manual Seems clear enough to me: TRANSMISSION, Manual OEM or NHRA-accepted aftermarket transmissions having same number of forward speeds (O.D. gear not required) as original, and reverse, may be used. All gear changes must result from direct action by the driver. Pneumatic, hydraulic, electric, etc. shifters prohibited. Floor-shift conversion kits permitted. Clutchless transmissions prohibited. Clutch must be used to change gears in a conventional manner. See General Regulations 2:12. It doesn't make sense to me that stick should be treated differently that automatic in this regard, so I wish you all luck in getting it changed.

12-08-2015, 01:18 PM	#35
Sean Marconette Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 977 Likes: 792 Liked 275 Times in 76 Posts	Re: 3sp to 4sp manual Phil, I just spoke to Bob Blackwell our D5 tech director, and you will need to submit this for a rule change. Bob did not have to think very long before he answered, so it is a no. It's not a big deal to get the ball rolling to at least get this reviewed. I pointed out the clarification on the auto trans so that is your ringer. Why can an auto car that came with a 2 speed run a 3 speed, but a stick car that came with a 3 speed not be able to use a readily available 4 speed? The sooner you get something submitted the better off you will be. The first G-Force I bought was from Jim Voth, it was a 5 speed as I am allowed to run one, but Jim could not, so he had removed the gear for 5th to be legal. It was another neutral, I do not remember if he did anything with the shifter as that was not part of the purchase. So you will be stuck with something like that, but worse and some not very ideal gear ratio combinations with a 3 speed. I hope I did not muddy the water for you. Sean __________________ Sean Marconette 84 Mustang 5060 SS/N

12-08-2015, 02:22 PM	#36
Adger Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Texarkana Ark/TX Posts: 2,446 Likes: 575 Liked 880 Times in 311 Posts	Re: 3sp to 4sp manual At one time I think there was an allowance for a car that was offered with overdrive. Like, the three speed with overdrive option is allowed a 4 speed. Or was it just talked about? I think Dwight or someone that still has a memory.might be able to help my memory on that one. __________________ Adger Smith (Former SS) Last edited by Adger Smith; 12-08-2015 at 02:22 PM. Reason: sp

12-08-2015, 05:46 PM	#37
Dwight Southerland VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arkansas - In the middle of everything. Posts: 1,999 Likes: 64 Liked 772 Times in 192 Posts	Re: 3sp to 4sp manual Adger, that was just talked about. That came about because supposedly you could take a BW T-85 three speed with overdrive and with some case modifications install a T-10 separator plate and tail housing with 4-speed guts. I don't know for a fact it was ever done, but some old Ford guys claimed it and argued that it should be legal. It falls into all that stuff about what do you do with a 5-speed od manual and 4-speed od automatic: Is it a 5 speed so you can run a Liberty or Doug Nash or Jerico 5-speed. Is it a 4-speed so you could build a 4-speed automatic? Wait for the rule book. After all, what passes tech is what is legal, not what the factories built. __________________

01-24-2016, 05:52 PM	#40
Shadylane Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Farmington, New Mexico Posts: 203 Likes: 268 Liked 171 Times in 51 Posts	Re: 3sp to 4sp manual How about replacing a Ford SROD in a Fox body with a Jerico or Toploader?