Econo Modified

[Ron E]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

Randy, I believe if NHRA created a class with a spec head, small block class, standard deck block, no short deck, 10.5 tire and lbs/CID with no break out rules, there would be many participants. Nevertheless, like always happens, someone would request a rule change and the class will go down the toilet.

Also, if NHRA approves the rule change for any aftermarket cast iron head, like said before, the class will be a Chevy engine class only. No aftermarket company will invest in creating a cast iron racing cylinder head for other makes in limited quantities when everybody prefers and easy to port and lightweight aluminum head.

The Pro Action heads were developed in Australia and then acquired by RHS. The cast iron LS-1 was only available two years in GM trucks and the aftermarket racing LS cast iron block is actually a GM truck production block.

All this said, this will force the Ford and Mopar products to race in the higher SS/Mod classes with aluminum heads, or race in the Super Modified class in Comp Eliminator.

I've seen those spec heads where the logo is cast into the floor. Those could get the regular undercover style port work, and a CNC shop could machine the logo back in. If the legal head comes with a machined logo, the porter does all his finish work first. If the logo is cast in, the heads get the finish work after the CNC'ed logo is done. Just mentioning because it will happen.

Its like the NASCAR Late Model Stock round track cars. ( primary market for the W2 and 351N.). They have little 2-bbls. specific intake, and head part numbers. No porting allowed on either. Many strict rules all the way to, and including the primary tube size and collector type and size. The result has been a high "dollar-per-HP" ratio. A "will pass tech" 2-bbl that dynos any amount measurable better is suddenly worth a bunch. Same with every other spec'ed part. Add in the regular trips to the barn if you run good, all these rules made the class more expensive.

There is nothing I'd love more than an affordable heads up class. I hope it can be worked out so big spenders advantage can be minimized. It would be a hit with spectators and racers.

On the SS/CS thing. Who is/was pushing for the new head rules? As they stand now, Chevy, Ford, and Dodge guys have zero to bitch about. The potential is as evenly matched as you'll find anywhere. Just who had to go and cry for a new head? If it was a well connected racer, you'll still suck because the right people can set records with any of the current brands. If it was corporate, remember Top Stock.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

To answer SS, I don't see how anyone wanting to change the rules is going to effect something with a board of racers making the call. I doubt there would be any money costing big changes ever. The most I see, would be figuring out different wt. breaks between auto, and clutch, and possibly newer vs. older chassis. By the way, anyone know if a 5 speed totally clutch assisted is faster then today's trick autos? Anyone?

Randy,
If you consider the indexes and records in SS/Modified and Comp classes, the automatic transmission cars are faster than the clutchless stick cars. Considering this assumption, the automatic transmission cars should be even faster than the clutch stick cars.
There are many clutch cars that can be shifted without clutch.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

To answer SS, I don't see how anyone wanting to change the rules is going to effect something with a board of racers making the call. I doubt there would be any money costing big changes ever. The most I see, would be figuring out different wt. breaks between auto, and clutch, and possibly newer vs. older chassis. By the way, anyone know if a 5 speed totally clutch assisted is faster then today's trick autos? Anyone?

Randy ...it should be close. I have always been totally clutch assisted.......you tell me
I use the clutch at every gear change..I have to , its an old Nash , so I have to be gentle LOL
At this event I wasn't allowed to use the 2 step so I was just playing around with launch RPM ( this wasnt a typical launch RPM )

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3WxrHNIHA"]Stick Shift Drag Racing - YouTube[/ame]

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Ron E

On the SS/CS thing. Who is/was pushing for the new head rules? As they stand now, Chevy, Ford, and Dodge guys have zero to bitch about. The potential is as evenly matched as you'll find anywhere. Just who had to go and cry for a new head? If it was a well connected racer, you'll still suck because the right people can set records with any of the current brands. If it was corporate, remember Top Stock.

Been told two stories; someone complained about the valve angles on the W2 and N351 cylinder heads and the other story about lack of Bow Tie Vortec Phase Two heads which it is a lot of baloney.

[Alan Roehrich]

The world is full of people who will spend $250K to win a $50 trophy.

You cannot outlaw money in racing.

Too many rules stifles innovation, which takes the reward for work out of the class and brings money in.

More rules = more money.

Rules written to save racers money often, maybe even usually, do not.

Racers are not always the best people to make rules.

Usually, track owners and promoters do as bad as racers.

All three mentioned above have a personal agenda, and even the best of them are biased toward that agenda.



What is needed as much as anything is good promotion by good honest promoters.


The truth is, if you really want good rules, pay Wesley Roberson, Dave Ley, Travis Miller, and a couple of good engine builders to work on the rules for you. The resulting rules should end up cost effective and enforceable.

If you want to try to start the class, start as a part of other non NHRA controlled events, or better yet, series.

Good luck to anyone trying to make a class like "econo" modified happen. It would be fun, and interesting.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by alan roehrich

the world is full of people who will spend $250k to win a $50 trophy.

You cannot outlaw money in racing.

Too many rules stifles innovation, which takes the reward for work out of the class and brings money in.

More rules = more money.

Rules written to save racers money often, maybe even usually, do not.

Racers are not always the best people to make rules.

Usually, track owners and promoters do as bad as racers.

All three mentioned above have a personal agenda, and even the best of them are biased toward that agenda.



What is needed as much as anything is good promotion by good honest promoters.


The truth is, if you really want good rules, pay wesley roberson, dave ley, travis miller, and a couple of good engine builders to work on the rules for you. The resulting rules should end up cost effective and enforceable.

If you want to try to start the class, start as a part of other non nhra controlled events, or better yet, series.

Good luck to anyone trying to make a class like "econo" modified happen. It would be fun, and interesting.

x2

[randy wilson]

OK. One at a time. I've talked to a rep at brodix, and if my memory serves me right, this was 6 years ago, THERE IS NO WAY TO CHANGE THE HEAD, AND INSTALL A NEW SPEC LOGO, OR PART NUMBER WITHOUT BEING CAUGHT. HAVE AN ORIGINAL HEAD THERE TO MEASURE, AND COMPARE!!! Damn guys, I think I could catch that. The problem is, you'd have to have some guts, and kick them out, and fine them BIG TIME! I know Al Parker said if they ever do anything like run this class, let him know the rules, and he could fine print it to be so defined, anything touched, not allowed, would be self evident. I don't know if any of you guys know him, but he is a genius. This is 2014. The tech. to catch these guys, is simple, and unbelievable. I've seen a set of "Under cover" ported heads, and as dumb as I am, I can tell they've been altered. And Joe, getting ready to watch your video. Now, for comp autos. THEY ARE 250 lbs, lighter then the clutch guys. Take that into consideration. I've already explained how to mount a camera on the cage like we did, if anyone is suspected of not clutching. That will cure that little problem. Worked for us.

[randy wilson]

Joe, sweet video. You'd fit right in. And, you were clutching for sure, but very good at it by the way.

[randy wilson]

Now, back to SS\CS. I think the heads are close right now. Look what Manns, Bogner, and Venice Perno have done. Leave it alone, but they won't.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Now, back to SS\CS. I think the heads are close right now. Look what Manns, Bogner, and Venice Perno have done. Leave it alone, but they won't.

Mans is no longer in SS/CS; he moved to SS/BS.
He has his SS/CS engine for sale on this site.
I presume other GM racers are the ones that made the request.