Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs

Mike Volkman · 09-02-2021, 01:38 AM

I'm a little confused and don't say its because I'm getting old. We have always had AHFS at Indy except in the last several years, hadn't we? Catch me up because I really can't pin down the year.

Tech left when Mr. Bruce did.

What year did we quit being brought into line with a combo(s) that was soft or those who were flexing the rules a little to much?

Do people really believe it's ok for an engine to out run another vehicle by 4 tenths at the thousand foot finish line?

And don't say "You need to work on your stuff".

Look at some of the issues. In SS. How does the 350 L98 (275 rating) at a 10 pound weight break be 400 pounds lighter than the 350/300 (318 rated) engine using the same block, same dart heads, same runner volumes, chamber 2 cc bigger on L98 and actual deck is +.020 installed justify the weight difference? What's that worth? On the outside a tenth at the most being generous. Are they really that fast or just under weight?

Shoot, 400 pound difference you would need an 000 light and your opponent would need to sit on the tree at least 4 tenths - not hundreds

Is AHFS an issue for everyone or do I need to hush? I always enjoyed seeing two fast cars trying to win and not take a hit. A slaughter is not a race in my opinion.

I remember Joe Scott, Cantucci, Mr Worner senior, and the other boys in Div 1 we raced with complaining about the 318 being soft. Was torn down 6 races in a row. Then we'd go to Indy only to have Jimmy DeFrank out run us by .02/03. Guess we were both soft.

Why is AHFS being spoken of that it is something new? We've gone to Indy and other tracks throughout the years trying to push the other cars out.
.
Now I did enjoy Lincoln and the the boy out west running each other the last couple years. Pretty equally paired. This year most people hid from the others. I enjoy good racing? Is this NHRA's fault or the racers (and I am in no way, shape or form saying they don't have issues)

But if they were both brought into line would it not be just as good to watch? May have other players.

Let's move on to stock - your turn. How does a stocker go almost as fast as a SS? I just watched one combo out run another stocker in a heads up by 8 mph. Really?

I get no one wants to take a hit but are you really accomplishing anything. I never played the ladder game to chase a heads up race when I was the fast car. Wasn't nothing to prove. Did look forward to running the other fast guys, heads up. Must be a testosterone thing.

So anyways, when did AHFS go away at Indy and what was the real reason?

Larry Hill · 09-02-2021, 05:46 AM

2014 was the last year the AHFS was in effect. I remember it well for I received 29 hp after the race. I know of two combinations that got a stroke of the pen power reduction without going by the rules of the in place AHFS , and they both won class. Go figure.

Maybe it was boring for you but for us it’s great fun!!!

We are all glad that you’re still a fan and care about the direction of class racing.

Mike Volkman · 09-02-2021, 07:52 AM

That should have never happened in my opinion. I would think the idea is to bring in parity at some point and not ruin a combo. Smacking with 29 seems excessive. Maybe 5 repeatedly, as needed?

Glad you had fun!

Herbie Null · 09-02-2021, 08:33 AM

Since everything is basically the same, I would just switch to that combo. Should be an easy switch, if you need any help I would be more than happy to help with the fuel map to get you going. You will have to run GT but its the same HP or look for a 90-91 Camaro roller and run either GT or SS.

Billy Nees · 09-02-2021, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbie Null

Since everything is basically the same, I would just switch to that combo. Should be an easy switch, if you need any help I would be more than happy to help with the fuel map to get you going. You will have to run GT but its the same HP or look for a 90-91 Camaro roller and run either GT or SS.

That's not the point and that's not the problem.........
But I think you know that.

Herbie Null · 09-02-2021, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

That's not the point and that's not the problem.........
But I think you know that.

Billy, I understand the point and the problem. We've been beating this dead horse for many years, you only have 3 choices. Stay where your at, switch to the combo you think is better or quit. That's the hard truth and I think you know that. I understand her frustration completely because I ran her same combo (350/318) for many years.

Mike Volkman · 09-02-2021, 09:54 AM

Herbie, Not personnel. That's just one of the many combos that are like that. I get protecting it, who wants power. Shoot, can't even brag about being fast when its a slam dunk? There's may combos that need some help, one way or another.

Take Armstrong or Fogle back when. Both combos were beat w/ hp and they still came to the top. Those cars were/are fast.

FOR S/S - I think the solution is to place all the fuel injected cars in the same class where there is parity to a point - more so than carb vs FI cars like they did back when. Parity being at least within a tenth

I stand corrected. Just heard that Boucher, Campolito, Fisher and Jim Hale in the barn for stock. Looks like they are pulling heads if car lost 1st rd. Checking cam and carb/t-body if you won.

SS: Belanger w Jacksons Car, Worner The World Champ and Wagner.

Herbie Null · 09-02-2021, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDS Inc

Herbie, Not personnel. That's just one of the many combos that are like that. I get protecting it, who wants power. Shoot, can't even brag about being fast when its a slam dunk? There's may combos that need some help, one way or another.

Take Armstrong or Fogle back when. Both combos were beat w/ hp and they still came to the top. Those cars were/are fast.

FOR S/S - I think the solution is to place all the fuel injected cars in the same class where there is parity to a point - more so than carb vs FI cars like they did back when. Parity being at least within a tenth.

I stand corrected. Just heard that Boucher, Campolito, Fisher and Jim Hale in the barn.

If they would ever switch carb and EFI cars in different classes, most of us would go back to carbs. I would have no problem with that.

Daran Summerton · 09-02-2021, 05:14 PM

Campolito vs Fisher heads up next rd. Both in tear down. Boring

Tim H · 09-02-2021, 07:12 PM

Yup, been glued to my laptop the last 2 days, because it is boring.

09-02-2021, 01:38 AM	#1
Mike Volkman Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 79 Likes: 32 Liked 497 Times in 50 Posts	Indy - no tech and when no ahfs I'm a little confused and don't say its because I'm getting old. We have always had AHFS at Indy except in the last several years, hadn't we? Catch me up because I really can't pin down the year. Tech left when Mr. Bruce did. What year did we quit being brought into line with a combo(s) that was soft or those who were flexing the rules a little to much? Do people really believe it's ok for an engine to out run another vehicle by 4 tenths at the thousand foot finish line? And don't say "You need to work on your stuff". Look at some of the issues. In SS. How does the 350 L98 (275 rating) at a 10 pound weight break be 400 pounds lighter than the 350/300 (318 rated) engine using the same block, same dart heads, same runner volumes, chamber 2 cc bigger on L98 and actual deck is +.020 installed justify the weight difference? What's that worth? On the outside a tenth at the most being generous. Are they really that fast or just under weight? Shoot, 400 pound difference you would need an 000 light and your opponent would need to sit on the tree at least 4 tenths - not hundreds Is AHFS an issue for everyone or do I need to hush? I always enjoyed seeing two fast cars trying to win and not take a hit. A slaughter is not a race in my opinion. I remember Joe Scott, Cantucci, Mr Worner senior, and the other boys in Div 1 we raced with complaining about the 318 being soft. Was torn down 6 races in a row. Then we'd go to Indy only to have Jimmy DeFrank out run us by .02/03. Guess we were both soft. Why is AHFS being spoken of that it is something new? We've gone to Indy and other tracks throughout the years trying to push the other cars out. . Now I did enjoy Lincoln and the the boy out west running each other the last couple years. Pretty equally paired. This year most people hid from the others. I enjoy good racing? Is this NHRA's fault or the racers (and I am in no way, shape or form saying they don't have issues) But if they were both brought into line would it not be just as good to watch? May have other players. Let's move on to stock - your turn. How does a stocker go almost as fast as a SS? I just watched one combo out run another stocker in a heads up by 8 mph. Really? I get no one wants to take a hit but are you really accomplishing anything. I never played the ladder game to chase a heads up race when I was the fast car. Wasn't nothing to prove. Did look forward to running the other fast guys, heads up. Must be a testosterone thing. So anyways, when did AHFS go away at Indy and what was the real reason? Last edited by Mike Volkman; 09-02-2021 at 11:05 AM.

09-02-2021, 05:46 AM	#2
Larry Hill Live Reporter Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hickory, Ky Posts: 10,635 Likes: 1,929 Liked 10,687 Times in 2,225 Posts	Re: Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs 2014 was the last year the AHFS was in effect. I remember it well for I received 29 hp after the race. I know of two combinations that got a stroke of the pen power reduction without going by the rules of the in place AHFS , and they both won class. Go figure. Maybe it was boring for you but for us it’s great fun!!! We are all glad that you’re still a fan and care about the direction of class racing. __________________ IHM Used Parts https://ihmusedparts.com 888-821-1817

09-02-2021, 07:52 AM	#3
Mike Volkman Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 79 Likes: 32 Liked 497 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs That should have never happened in my opinion. I would think the idea is to bring in parity at some point and not ruin a combo. Smacking with 29 seems excessive. Maybe 5 repeatedly, as needed? Glad you had fun!

09-02-2021, 08:33 AM	#4
Herbie Null Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: greencastle pa Posts: 215 Likes: 86 Liked 439 Times in 69 Posts	Re: Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs Since everything is basically the same, I would just switch to that combo. Should be an easy switch, if you need any help I would be more than happy to help with the fuel map to get you going. You will have to run GT but its the same HP or look for a 90-91 Camaro roller and run either GT or SS. __________________ Herbie Null 201 SS

09-02-2021, 09:54 AM	#7
Mike Volkman Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 79 Likes: 32 Liked 497 Times in 50 Posts	Re: Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs Herbie, Not personnel. That's just one of the many combos that are like that. I get protecting it, who wants power. Shoot, can't even brag about being fast when its a slam dunk? There's may combos that need some help, one way or another. Take Armstrong or Fogle back when. Both combos were beat w/ hp and they still came to the top. Those cars were/are fast. FOR S/S - I think the solution is to place all the fuel injected cars in the same class where there is parity to a point - more so than carb vs FI cars like they did back when. Parity being at least within a tenth I stand corrected. Just heard that Boucher, Campolito, Fisher and Jim Hale in the barn for stock. Looks like they are pulling heads if car lost 1st rd. Checking cam and carb/t-body if you won. SS: Belanger w Jacksons Car, Worner The World Champ and Wagner. Last edited by Mike Volkman; 09-02-2021 at 01:33 PM.

09-02-2021, 05:14 PM	#9
Daran Summerton Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Las Vegas nv Posts: 600 Likes: 18 Liked 66 Times in 37 Posts	Re: Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs Campolito vs Fisher heads up next rd. Both in tear down. Boring __________________ 72 cutlass

09-02-2021, 07:12 PM	#10
Tim H VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,041 Likes: 1,070 Liked 481 Times in 158 Posts	Re: Indy was boring - no tech/ no ahfs Yup, been glued to my laptop the last 2 days, because it is boring.