I should have said "valve gap issues"

Floyd Staggs · 07-25-2010, 05:56 AM

My truck started running like crap last time out. Had some junk in the carberator. Had the carb gone thru, changed the filter, changed the regulator and put in a new battery cause the old one would lose 2 amps a couple of hours after charging.
Started it up today and it starts fine but still runs like crap. Pulled the valve covers to check rockers and found a interesting phenomena. I've got a comp cams solid roller cam and comp endure x solid rollers. #2 exhaust and #7 exhaust feel spongey. I can put a .026 guage in but I can't rattle them with my fingers. You know how you grab the rocker and check with your fingers first for tight ones? Oh, I've got T&D shaft rockers.
Any ideas? Have I got a couple of bad lifters?

Chuck Westcott · 07-25-2010, 07:26 AM

Floyd,
I just tripped over your post and I Just had a similar issue with my 572. Only I was getting small filings on my Oil drain plug and didn't know where they were coming from.
I pulled the manifold and found 3 bad or going bad lifters, cought it just in time. I decided to junk the old rocker and stud girdle deal and install a new T&D system along with new 7/16 pushrods and new Morel Lifters. Mine was an oiling issue. the Dart block I have had .080 oil restrictors that I put in based on all the adivse I received. I drilled them out to .200 and now have an adequet oil supply to the top end.
My guess is you have a couple of lifters beginning to fail. Get in there before any excessive damage is done to the Cam.

Floyd Staggs · 07-25-2010, 07:54 AM

Chuck, how do you tell if they are going bad?
I changed the oil and filter before I started it and the drain plug was clean. So was the oil. I musta missed an oil change in my log book. I normally change every 2 races but the book said 4.
I've been using T&D for 3 years and haven't had the gap change at all. I don't spin my 540 very high cause I want it to live forever. I guess the manifold comes off today. I'm going to check the pushrods first.
Thanks,

Chuck Westcott · 07-25-2010, 08:16 AM

The first sign is excessive play at the rockers, pull the pushrods and see if there is any galling on the ends. My lifters were worn excessively on the roller shafts. I had 80 passes on the old set-up and I go through the lights @ 7400.
To be on the safe side look at all of the lifters and the cam.
I'm not an engine builder by any means, perhaps someone with more experience would chime in. I found my problem and over fixed it with all new parts. I don't want any issues for the rest of the season. Let us know what you find.

Floyd Staggs · 07-25-2010, 08:24 AM

I don't look forward to pulling the rocker arms. They were a pain to set up the first time. Getting all those spacers right for the geometry.
Guess I better get to work
Thanks

Floyd Staggs · 07-25-2010, 04:56 PM

Pulled the rockers and the push rods. They are all straight but there are wear spots on 2, 3 and 7 exhaust. The rollers look and feel fine but I'm going to send them in for a freshen up anyhow. It don't cost that much. A neighbor stopped by and said I either had some broken springs or tuliped a couple of valves. That would cause the lash to go away. Guess I'll pull the heads. Damn race cars.

buzzinhalfdozen · 07-26-2010, 09:39 AM

Normally when you lose valve lash it's due to either a valve seat or a valve issue. If you were gaining lash I'd look at the lifters or pushrods. What is your normal lash? Before pulling heads I would leak the motor down to get a general idea of the shape of the engine. If you don't own a leak down tester buy one they're cheap and give you a good idea of the health of your rings and valves. Good luck. Joe

Floyd Staggs · 07-26-2010, 03:09 PM

You're reading my mind Joe. We are going to leak it down Saturday and then decide wether to pull the whole motor or just the heads, My boy has a leakdown tester.
Normally the lash is 024. It's a comp roller cam with comp endure x lifters.

buzzinhalfdozen · 07-26-2010, 04:56 PM

So your lash increased by .002 this would indicate wear on the cam side, Rockers, pushrods, lifters. Still a good idea to leak down but I doubt this is causing your running issues. Make sure you roll the engine over and watch the rockers to make sure they all move the same, I've seen lobes worn down but usually you see much more increase in lash. As far as checking the lifters rolling the wheels with your finger and feel for any roughness. Have you determined which cyls. are misfiring? A cheap no touch heat gun will help with this start engine then "shoot" all header tubes, should see very low temps on incorrectly firing cyls.Please let us know your progress I love a mystery. Joe

Floyd Staggs · 07-27-2010, 09:57 AM

Joe, the lash decreased by 024. I stopped by to see my motor guru last nite and the first thing he said was tuliped valves. He doubts if it's a seat issue but it's possible.
I checked with a heat gun before I started pulling it apart. 1 and 2 were there normal colder selves and the others were all about the same.
I guess I'll take advantage of the apart issue and have a little port work done. These are out of the box Dart Pro 1 heads.

07-25-2010, 05:56 AM	#1
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,521 Likes: 138 Liked 223 Times in 98 Posts	I should have said "valve gap issues" My truck started running like crap last time out. Had some junk in the carberator. Had the carb gone thru, changed the filter, changed the regulator and put in a new battery cause the old one would lose 2 amps a couple of hours after charging. Started it up today and it starts fine but still runs like crap. Pulled the valve covers to check rockers and found a interesting phenomena. I've got a comp cams solid roller cam and comp endure x solid rollers. #2 exhaust and #7 exhaust feel spongey. I can put a .026 guage in but I can't rattle them with my fingers. You know how you grab the rocker and check with your fingers first for tight ones? Oh, I've got T&D shaft rockers. Any ideas? Have I got a couple of bad lifters? __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST Last edited by Floyd Staggs; 07-25-2010 at 06:37 AM.

07-25-2010, 07:54 AM	#3
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,521 Likes: 138 Liked 223 Times in 98 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" Chuck, how do you tell if they are going bad? I changed the oil and filter before I started it and the drain plug was clean. So was the oil. I musta missed an oil change in my log book. I normally change every 2 races but the book said 4. I've been using T&D for 3 years and haven't had the gap change at all. I don't spin my 540 very high cause I want it to live forever. I guess the manifold comes off today. I'm going to check the pushrods first. Thanks, __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST

07-25-2010, 08:16 AM	#4
Chuck Westcott Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brownsburg,Indiana Posts: 326 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" The first sign is excessive play at the rockers, pull the pushrods and see if there is any galling on the ends. My lifters were worn excessively on the roller shafts. I had 80 passes on the old set-up and I go through the lights @ 7400. To be on the safe side look at all of the lifters and the cam. I'm not an engine builder by any means, perhaps someone with more experience would chime in. I found my problem and over fixed it with all new parts. I don't want any issues for the rest of the season. Let us know what you find. __________________ Chuck Westcott- S/C -S/G 225

07-25-2010, 08:24 AM	#5
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,521 Likes: 138 Liked 223 Times in 98 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" I don't look forward to pulling the rocker arms. They were a pain to set up the first time. Getting all those spacers right for the geometry. Guess I better get to work Thanks __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST

07-25-2010, 04:56 PM	#6
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,521 Likes: 138 Liked 223 Times in 98 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" Pulled the rockers and the push rods. They are all straight but there are wear spots on 2, 3 and 7 exhaust. The rollers look and feel fine but I'm going to send them in for a freshen up anyhow. It don't cost that much. A neighbor stopped by and said I either had some broken springs or tuliped a couple of valves. That would cause the lash to go away. Guess I'll pull the heads. Damn race cars. __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST

07-25-2010, 07:26 AM	#2
Chuck Westcott Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brownsburg,Indiana Posts: 326 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" Floyd, I just tripped over your post and I Just had a similar issue with my 572. Only I was getting small filings on my Oil drain plug and didn't know where they were coming from. I pulled the manifold and found 3 bad or going bad lifters, cought it just in time. I decided to junk the old rocker and stud girdle deal and install a new T&D system along with new 7/16 pushrods and new Morel Lifters. Mine was an oiling issue. the Dart block I have had .080 oil restrictors that I put in based on all the adivse I received. I drilled them out to .200 and now have an adequet oil supply to the top end. My guess is you have a couple of lifters beginning to fail. Get in there before any excessive damage is done to the Cam. __________________ Chuck Westcott- S/C -S/G 225

07-26-2010, 09:39 AM	#7
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" Normally when you lose valve lash it's due to either a valve seat or a valve issue. If you were gaining lash I'd look at the lifters or pushrods. What is your normal lash? Before pulling heads I would leak the motor down to get a general idea of the shape of the engine. If you don't own a leak down tester buy one they're cheap and give you a good idea of the health of your rings and valves. Good luck. Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

07-26-2010, 03:09 PM	#8
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,521 Likes: 138 Liked 223 Times in 98 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" You're reading my mind Joe. We are going to leak it down Saturday and then decide wether to pull the whole motor or just the heads, My boy has a leakdown tester. Normally the lash is 024. It's a comp roller cam with comp endure x lifters. __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST

07-26-2010, 04:56 PM	#9
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" So your lash increased by .002 this would indicate wear on the cam side, Rockers, pushrods, lifters. Still a good idea to leak down but I doubt this is causing your running issues. Make sure you roll the engine over and watch the rockers to make sure they all move the same, I've seen lobes worn down but usually you see much more increase in lash. As far as checking the lifters rolling the wheels with your finger and feel for any roughness. Have you determined which cyls. are misfiring? A cheap no touch heat gun will help with this start engine then "shoot" all header tubes, should see very low temps on incorrectly firing cyls.Please let us know your progress I love a mystery. Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

07-27-2010, 09:57 AM	#10
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,521 Likes: 138 Liked 223 Times in 98 Posts	Re: I should have said "valve gap issues" Joe, the lash decreased by 024. I stopped by to see my motor guru last nite and the first thing he said was tuliped valves. He doubts if it's a seat issue but it's possible. I checked with a heat gun before I started pulling it apart. 1 and 2 were there normal colder selves and the others were all about the same. I guess I'll take advantage of the apart issue and have a little port work done. These are out of the box Dart Pro 1 heads. __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST