Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee

Mark Yacavone · 09-12-2016, 12:40 PM

This post will concern any type of S/SS racing below the national event level.

National events have become so ridiculously expensive and out of reach for many , that it is a whole different subject. With the lowered quotas, the average racer who still has to work for a living, would be lucky to be able to get to enough divisionals to be able enter any , anyway.

A couple of years ago, a good friend got to the semi's at the Wild Horse divisional race.
This with a top shelf GT car that repeats like a Swiss watch. His payout? $150 bucks.
Entry ? $165 .
This is totally unacceptable in my mind ,and has to change.

Most of the independent races are run this way, that I know of: The track tells the promoter how much they want for a tech card. In other words, for the privilege of going down their racetrack. This is usually the same as what the local bracket or trophy racer pays.
The promoter may or may not get a percentage of this fee.
The payback comes from a separate lane , or pool fee.
It is usually paid back at a fixed percentage, depending on car count.

I contend that NHRA divisionals should be conducted this way.

Currently, the specific divisional tracks get together and decide what the entry fee will be for the season. The tracks are free to set the actual payout amounts wherever they want.
We don't get to see how the $170 or $165 entry is actually divided up or used .

I also contend that is the job of the track or the promoter to put butts in the seats for divisionals, so they don't have to insult and pilch money from the racers.

I realize that the class national type events were conducted in a different format, but I would still value the opinion of the promoters (MB).
Also, other promoters, past or present, association guys, etc...What say you?

7423 · 09-12-2016, 01:02 PM

Do you happen to know how many thousands and thousands of dollars the track has to pay NHRA for the privilege of having the divisional race? How many entry fees does it take to make them whole again?

Mark Yacavone · 09-12-2016, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7423

Do you happen to know how many thousands and thousands of dollars the track has to pay NHRA for the privilege of having the divisional race? How many entry fees does it take to make them whole again?

No, I don't know ,Charlie.I don't keep up with it .I just know it is a significant percentage.

A former Midwestern 600 car LODRS track operator told me, after giving up the points meets, that it wasn't worth the effort, after the two week long prep work for one time per season increased car count.
He told me that, after a good Friday night T&T session, a Saturday Team race, and then a Sunday specialty event, he would come within about $500 of what he would clear after a Divisional, with nowhere near all the extra work.

Mark Yacavone · 09-12-2016, 02:02 PM

I may have not made myself clear earlier.
First of all, I understand the heavy NHRA clip off the top for the privilege of one of their Divisional races.

Also , I 'm not even suggesting that you should have to pay twice when entering the race.
All I'm saying is if we knew what percentage of entry went towards the payout, then we could "suggest" how it could be dispersed more fairly.

cmracing · 09-12-2016, 02:41 PM

The track does not set the Tech Card price, nor do they decide on the payout structure......... NHRA does that.

BKSG1198 · 09-12-2016, 02:42 PM

Well, Jim Wahl was told by IHRA that they need to have 130 cars at a IHRA Pro-Am to break even so I would assume a NHRA event is a little more and depending on if they have TAFC or TAD at those events because of insurance fees.

Let's face it, people including myself have tried the big time, high dollar payout for sportsman racers and it just doesn't work. Ask Myself, Lee Zane, Mike Beard, Dave Ley, you can put $20,000 up to win and people still won't come because a Wally is not up for grabs even when there is no races within 300 miles of your race. Promoters have even put events a day before Divisional is supposed to be run and can't draw people even while they are parked for the Divisional race.

The payouts do need an overhaul but, what can you do besides beat a dead horse that is already dead.

Mark Yacavone · 09-12-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmracing

The track does not set the Tech Card price, nor do they decide on the payout structure......... NHRA does that.

"The track does not set the Tech Card price"
We've already determined that.

"nor do they decide on the payout structure"
Why does the payout vary between track within the same division?

Thanks for your comments
Oh, and you speak from what authority, Mr. cm ?

Mark Yacavone · 09-12-2016, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKSG1198

Well, Jim Wahl was told by IHRA that they need to have 130 cars at a IHRA Pro-Am to break even so I would assume a NHRA event is a little more and depending on if they have TAFC or TAD at those events because of insurance fees.

Let's face it, people including myself have tried the big time, high dollar payout for sportsman racers and it just doesn't work. Ask Myself, Lee Zane, Mike Beard, Dave Ley, you can put $20,000 up to win and people still won't come because a Wally is not up for grabs even when there is no races within 300 miles of your race. Promoters have even put events a day before Divisional is supposed to be run and can't draw people even while they are parked for the Divisional race.

The payouts do need an overhaul but, what can you do besides beat a dead horse that is already dead.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, Bob
Just looking for thoughts / suggestions here.

Stephanie · 09-12-2016, 03:58 PM

What year was last pay increase at the divisional level?

cmracing · 09-12-2016, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

"The track does not set the Tech Card price"
We've already determined that.

"nor do they decide on the payout structure"
Why does the payout vary between track within the same division?

Thanks for your comments
Oh, and you speak from what authority, Mr. cm ?

I have my inside info.........

I will have to see what I can dig-up regarding the varying payouts within the same division.....

We had roughly 510 competitors on hand at this past weekends Div 1 event at E-Town, all at $170 a pop.

The Index Classes are not included in that number, and they only paid $50 for a tech card (at least the 11.50 and 10.00 peeps), the 8.50 racers may have paid their "normal" $100 fee. Anyway, their payout was based on tech cards sold for their classes, which was dismal.........

Racers are certainly not here to chase the $$$$. Well, at least not into their pockets, maybe chasing it OUT of their pockets! I know, I had two cars entered and drove a third! Glutton for punishment!

09-12-2016, 12:40 PM	#1
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,809 Likes: 2,899 Liked 5,111 Times in 1,948 Posts	Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee This post will concern any type of S/SS racing below the national event level. National events have become so ridiculously expensive and out of reach for many , that it is a whole different subject. With the lowered quotas, the average racer who still has to work for a living, would be lucky to be able to get to enough divisionals to be able enter any , anyway. A couple of years ago, a good friend got to the semi's at the Wild Horse divisional race. This with a top shelf GT car that repeats like a Swiss watch. His payout? $150 bucks. Entry ? $165 . This is totally unacceptable in my mind ,and has to change. Most of the independent races are run this way, that I know of: The track tells the promoter how much they want for a tech card. In other words, for the privilege of going down their racetrack. This is usually the same as what the local bracket or trophy racer pays. The promoter may or may not get a percentage of this fee. The payback comes from a separate lane , or pool fee. It is usually paid back at a fixed percentage, depending on car count. I contend that NHRA divisionals should be conducted this way. Currently, the specific divisional tracks get together and decide what the entry fee will be for the season. The tracks are free to set the actual payout amounts wherever they want. We don't get to see how the $170 or $165 entry is actually divided up or used . I also contend that is the job of the track or the promoter to put butts in the seats for divisionals, so they don't have to insult and pilch money from the racers. I realize that the class national type events were conducted in a different format, but I would still value the opinion of the promoters (MB). Also, other promoters, past or present, association guys, etc...What say you? __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

09-12-2016, 01:02 PM	#2
7423 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 639 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee Do you happen to know how many thousands and thousands of dollars the track has to pay NHRA for the privilege of having the divisional race? How many entry fees does it take to make them whole again?

09-12-2016, 02:02 PM	#4
Mark Yacavone Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Miles From Nowhere Posts: 7,809 Likes: 2,899 Liked 5,111 Times in 1,948 Posts	Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee I may have not made myself clear earlier. First of all, I understand the heavy NHRA clip off the top for the privilege of one of their Divisional races. Also , I 'm not even suggesting that you should have to pay twice when entering the race. All I'm saying is if we knew what percentage of entry went towards the payout, then we could "suggest" how it could be dispersed more fairly. __________________ "We are lucky we don't get as much Government as we pay for." Will Rogers

09-12-2016, 02:41 PM	#5
cmracing Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 173 Likes: 113 Liked 62 Times in 29 Posts	Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee The track does not set the Tech Card price, nor do they decide on the payout structure......... NHRA does that.

09-12-2016, 02:42 PM	#6
BKSG1198 VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Vineland, NJ Posts: 2,622 Likes: 95 Liked 1,279 Times in 389 Posts	Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee Well, Jim Wahl was told by IHRA that they need to have 130 cars at a IHRA Pro-Am to break even so I would assume a NHRA event is a little more and depending on if they have TAFC or TAD at those events because of insurance fees. Let's face it, people including myself have tried the big time, high dollar payout for sportsman racers and it just doesn't work. Ask Myself, Lee Zane, Mike Beard, Dave Ley, you can put $20,000 up to win and people still won't come because a Wally is not up for grabs even when there is no races within 300 miles of your race. Promoters have even put events a day before Divisional is supposed to be run and can't draw people even while they are parked for the Divisional race. The payouts do need an overhaul but, what can you do besides beat a dead horse that is already dead.

09-12-2016, 03:58 PM	#9
Stephanie Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 149 Likes: 83 Liked 76 Times in 31 Posts	Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee What year was last pay increase at the divisional level?