Thinking about this in depth.......

savoyracer · 12-29-2009, 10:25 AM

Yep, gave it some thought, and in my opinion, if it wasn't for bracket racing, you would not be here. This thread would not be here. And this website would not be here. I started racing at the tender age of 16, in 1965, No bracket racing then. Had a 55 chev wagon, ran I/SA, and got whipped by class cars by 3-4 seconds every time. Very discouraging for a young racer. So buddies and I following our hearts and desires, put an olds engine in it, towed three hours to the nearest drag strip, and found that we were now in B/MP, "clever move on our part", but what did we know, we were just hot rodders and wanted to race. Needless to say, we got whupped even worse. We did not have any money, and we could not compete. I am sure that we were among many other young guys in those days. So like so many, we did not bother with the drag strip, we went street racing. we could compete, have fun, and enjoy our cars. Then along came "bracket racing" it was a natural gravitation off the streets and back to the track, we could now compete, have fun, and put an olds engine in a chev if we wanted to!! Race tracks are a business, they have to make money. There would not have been enough class racers around to support any race track. Its so simple to say that you just have to work on your iron, and make it competitive, but not everyone is rich, and can afford to buy the fast stuff, so to the richest went the spoils, and quite frankly even as a young man I could see that happening. Bracket racing was the great equalizer, all of a sudden anyone could win a race, and be competitive. the young guys could take their muscle cars to the track and win, it was a feel good situation for everyone. without the evolution of bracket racing, the sport of drag racing would have died in the early 70's, or at the very least would have been a minor league auto sport for the wealthy, with few tracks far between each other. So, just maybe, instead of ruining S/SS class racing, it actually was the salvation of class racing. You now have lots of tracks, supported by lots of competitors, and their friends and family's. You have mail order catalogs, speed and hot rod companies, specialty manufacturers, engine builders, trans and convertor specialists, a vast network of business, and motels, restaurants, fuel vendors etc. All supported by a large drag racing community, AND, I seriously doubt that 1500-1600 class racers are the economic engine behind that industry!!! you are just a small cog in that big wheel, In my opinion, the biggest cogs in that wheel are "bracket racers".........Yep, I am a "bracket racer" proud to be one to. just wish I was better at it!!

randy wilson · 12-29-2009, 10:46 AM

that is also why circle track racing died. wait it is still going. everyweek-end, thousands of fans. they must be dialing in, wait, they run all out. how can that be? dont they know if they go to fast and lose it has more crowd appeal? wait, local bracket fans have 3 people in the bleachers, wait, it saves on bleacher money. i see now. where did you race on the street where you dialed in? just curious.

Bill Koski · 12-29-2009, 12:48 PM

Most roundy rounders have engine rules, spec engines and such!
The big thing that separates them from bracket racers is they all take the green together.
In the past a few places have tried claimer motor races, like they do in horse racing, but as far as I know nobody was able to carry the program long enough for very many people to get involved.

Rich Biebel · 12-29-2009, 01:05 PM

Bob Glidden once said on camera in an interview, if it wasn't for bracket racing...Drag Racing would not be where it grew into and I agree 100%.

The early 70's saw participation at such a low level many tracks would have shut down if bracket racing in some form had not gotten going.

My local track had very few cars there untill a bracket program was tried. It started to catch on and grew quickly.......Class cars were not keeping things going on the local level and were not that plentiful at NHRA races.

Rules favored too few cars and NHRA needed time to get a better program formed that kept people coming back and get more participation.

randy wilson · 12-29-2009, 01:13 PM

if this is so true why doesnt circle track racing dial in? why doesnt circle track racing fall away because of the cost? why doesnt eddeyville have anyone watching today when in the 70s the place had 1500 people there on a regular basis?

Jeremy · 12-29-2009, 01:14 PM

I also started racing in 1964/65 (with a vacation in the 90's)and raced in F/SA and as others I was very slow and could not win. When Bracket racing started I did not compete as a bracket person as I felt it was in not way racing. I have continued to race most of these years on a very low budgit being very slow for most of them, in 2003 and still on a very limited budgit I finally started doing better and became a "fast car" and now the bracket racers are not happy and want to continue to add hp to my combination.

Bracket racing may of added cars at the races, but also has taken away most of the fans, and has over crowded most races doing away with the number of runs everyone gets and baring eliminators of real racers from National events.

Harry 6674 · 12-29-2009, 01:44 PM

Bracket racing may have helped the race tracks but it has totally screwed up class racing and driven away fans. IMO

Rich Biebel · 12-29-2009, 01:45 PM

Dirt track racing has faded around here and there are fewer and fewer tracks and cars. It was once a pretty thriving sport.....

Stock and SS racing IS bracket racing.......you can try to convince yourself it isn't but they give the Trophy and the $$$ to the guy who wins by cutting a good RT and running on his DIAL-IN.....Yes occasionally it is a heads up run for the $$$ but not very often......If you made racing flatout and the fastest guy wins....pretty soon you'd be right back to fewer and fewer cars showing up knowing they don't have a chnace unless they spend a fortune to run with the big dogs.....

It's simple economics...if a track can't stay in business there is no place to race. Spectators? You have to be joking if you think todays people will come to watch anything other than Nitro cars......Look at Nascar.....Empty stands except for the Cup cars.....

treessavoy · 12-29-2009, 01:45 PM

Say whatever you want but Bracket Racing is the only refuge for the little guy!

Crowds? Hold an all Stock and see the crowds....all friends and crew members....and that's all....!

And now for all the Stock Racers (of which I am one)....if you have shoe polish on your windshield......you're a bracket racer, only you have more restrictive rules....

JimR

Chris "drooze" Wertman · 12-29-2009, 01:52 PM

Obviously 2 different perspectives, driver participation and fan participation.

Fans like heads up. Some driver like bracket , and some car owners as well, as they can be competitive with a good package and driver I would Imagine......

Bikes are easy theyre all based on simple displacment and its "heads" up do anything within the rules for your displacment first one to the finish wins like in circle jerk.

SCCA used to have a few classes like what was it Formula V and now I think Formula 2000 ? Leveled the playing field from a $ side to a point as the engine/specs were the same.

I would think TF and TA are like this as well....same basic setups with some wiggle room, and all team, R&D and driver....but heads up.

Kinda impossible to do with the other classes now I would imagine, maybe more "heads up" classes all based on a similar chassis / motor......kinda a Jr. Funny car a base chassis spec with a change out body, if you will.....the fans will get it.....might bring back some of the "Wild Days" of drag racing as well......be nice and standard, kinda a hybrid of TF and Circle Jerk engine rules.....but finding people who all agree on a common motor spec is gonna be hard....then again maybe there is/was something like this I dont see (recently)

For big driver and car participation I agree Bracket racing saved things....

For fans on TV....they dont get it unless theyre die hard Drag fans...but everyone like to SEE heads up.

My opinion...Im waiting on lunch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel

Bob Glidden once said on camera in an interview, if it wasn't for bracket racing...Drag Racing would not be where it grew into and I agree 100%.

The early 70's saw participation at such a low level many tracks would have shut down if bracket racing in some form had not gotten going.

My local track had very few cars there untill a bracket program was tried. It started to catch on and grew quickly.......Class cars were not keeping things going on the local level and were not that plentiful at NHRA races.

Rules favored too few cars and NHRA needed time to get a better program formed that kept people coming back and get more participation.

12-29-2009, 10:25 AM	#1
savoyracer Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Myrtle Point Oregon Posts: 92 Likes: 3 Liked 9 Times in 3 Posts	Thinking about this in depth....... Yep, gave it some thought, and in my opinion, if it wasn't for bracket racing, you would not be here. This thread would not be here. And this website would not be here. I started racing at the tender age of 16, in 1965, No bracket racing then. Had a 55 chev wagon, ran I/SA, and got whipped by class cars by 3-4 seconds every time. Very discouraging for a young racer. So buddies and I following our hearts and desires, put an olds engine in it, towed three hours to the nearest drag strip, and found that we were now in B/MP, "clever move on our part", but what did we know, we were just hot rodders and wanted to race. Needless to say, we got whupped even worse. We did not have any money, and we could not compete. I am sure that we were among many other young guys in those days. So like so many, we did not bother with the drag strip, we went street racing. we could compete, have fun, and enjoy our cars. Then along came "bracket racing" it was a natural gravitation off the streets and back to the track, we could now compete, have fun, and put an olds engine in a chev if we wanted to!! Race tracks are a business, they have to make money. There would not have been enough class racers around to support any race track. Its so simple to say that you just have to work on your iron, and make it competitive, but not everyone is rich, and can afford to buy the fast stuff, so to the richest went the spoils, and quite frankly even as a young man I could see that happening. Bracket racing was the great equalizer, all of a sudden anyone could win a race, and be competitive. the young guys could take their muscle cars to the track and win, it was a feel good situation for everyone. without the evolution of bracket racing, the sport of drag racing would have died in the early 70's, or at the very least would have been a minor league auto sport for the wealthy, with few tracks far between each other. So, just maybe, instead of ruining S/SS class racing, it actually was the salvation of class racing. You now have lots of tracks, supported by lots of competitors, and their friends and family's. You have mail order catalogs, speed and hot rod companies, specialty manufacturers, engine builders, trans and convertor specialists, a vast network of business, and motels, restaurants, fuel vendors etc. All supported by a large drag racing community, AND, I seriously doubt that 1500-1600 class racers are the economic engine behind that industry!!! you are just a small cog in that big wheel, In my opinion, the biggest cogs in that wheel are "bracket racers".........Yep, I am a "bracket racer" proud to be one to. just wish I was better at it!!

12-29-2009, 10:46 AM	#2
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Thinking about this in depth....... that is also why circle track racing died. wait it is still going. everyweek-end, thousands of fans. they must be dialing in, wait, they run all out. how can that be? dont they know if they go to fast and lose it has more crowd appeal? wait, local bracket fans have 3 people in the bleachers, wait, it saves on bleacher money. i see now. where did you race on the street where you dialed in? just curious. __________________ don,t have one

12-29-2009, 12:48 PM	#3
Bill Koski Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Las Vegas NV Posts: 213 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thinking about this in depth....... Most roundy rounders have engine rules, spec engines and such! The big thing that separates them from bracket racers is they all take the green together. In the past a few places have tried claimer motor races, like they do in horse racing, but as far as I know nobody was able to carry the program long enough for very many people to get involved.

12-29-2009, 01:05 PM	#4
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,314 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: Thinking about this in depth....... Bob Glidden once said on camera in an interview, if it wasn't for bracket racing...Drag Racing would not be where it grew into and I agree 100%. The early 70's saw participation at such a low level many tracks would have shut down if bracket racing in some form had not gotten going. My local track had very few cars there untill a bracket program was tried. It started to catch on and grew quickly.......Class cars were not keeping things going on the local level and were not that plentiful at NHRA races. Rules favored too few cars and NHRA needed time to get a better program formed that kept people coming back and get more participation. __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R

12-29-2009, 01:13 PM	#5
randy wilson Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N/A Posts: 882 Likes: 0 Liked 22 Times in 22 Posts	Re: Thinking about this in depth....... if this is so true why doesnt circle track racing dial in? why doesnt circle track racing fall away because of the cost? why doesnt eddeyville have anyone watching today when in the 70s the place had 1500 people there on a regular basis? __________________ don,t have one

12-29-2009, 01:14 PM	#6
Jeremy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 95 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Thinking about this in depth....... I also started racing in 1964/65 (with a vacation in the 90's)and raced in F/SA and as others I was very slow and could not win. When Bracket racing started I did not compete as a bracket person as I felt it was in not way racing. I have continued to race most of these years on a very low budgit being very slow for most of them, in 2003 and still on a very limited budgit I finally started doing better and became a "fast car" and now the bracket racers are not happy and want to continue to add hp to my combination. Bracket racing may of added cars at the races, but also has taken away most of the fans, and has over crowded most races doing away with the number of runs everyone gets and baring eliminators of real racers from National events.

12-29-2009, 01:44 PM	#7
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Thinking about this in depth....... Bracket racing may have helped the race tracks but it has totally screwed up class racing and driven away fans. IMO

12-29-2009, 01:45 PM	#8
Rich Biebel VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Northern New Jersey suburbs Posts: 2,314 Likes: 25 Liked 544 Times in 213 Posts	Re: Thinking about this in depth....... Dirt track racing has faded around here and there are fewer and fewer tracks and cars. It was once a pretty thriving sport..... Stock and SS racing IS bracket racing.......you can try to convince yourself it isn't but they give the Trophy and the $$$ to the guy who wins by cutting a good RT and running on his DIAL-IN.....Yes occasionally it is a heads up run for the $$$ but not very often......If you made racing flatout and the fastest guy wins....pretty soon you'd be right back to fewer and fewer cars showing up knowing they don't have a chnace unless they spend a fortune to run with the big dogs..... It's simple economics...if a track can't stay in business there is no place to race. Spectators? You have to be joking if you think todays people will come to watch anything other than Nitro cars......Look at Nascar.....Empty stands except for the Cup cars..... __________________ Rich Biebel S/C 1479 Stock 147R Last edited by Rich Biebel; 12-29-2009 at 01:52 PM.

12-29-2009, 01:45 PM	#9
treessavoy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dunnellon,FL Posts: 1,103 Likes: 0 Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Thinking about this in depth....... Say whatever you want but Bracket Racing is the only refuge for the little guy! Crowds? Hold an all Stock and see the crowds....all friends and crew members....and that's all....! And now for all the Stock Racers (of which I am one)....if you have shoe polish on your windshield......you're a bracket racer, only you have more restrictive rules.... JimR __________________ Jim Rountree