MSD ignition help!!!

Mike W · 10-19-2009, 06:59 PM

I have a MSD 6al ignition on my car and billet MSD distributor. Since I put the car together Ive had trouble with it starting, it only has 11.1 comp, someone suggested a switch to flip the ignition on once the motor started turning over, but as soon as you flip the switch it turns slow. i have a Tilton mini starter and ive run a ground from the battery to the motor and a ground from the motor to the frame. The 6al was the only thing i didnt buy new. Can the ignition box drain a battery? Can it also put total timing at start even if the distributor isnt locked out?

Mike

Alan Roehrich · 10-19-2009, 07:32 PM

It is not likely that an MSD box will drain a healthy battery while you're starting the car. A 6AL, wired correctly, won't alter the timing, it'll only process what the distributor sends it.

Have you had the battery(ies) thoroughly tested? Are you certain the timing is correct? Are you certain the box is wired correctly?

It is possible that the box is bad, but normally if it runs well once it started, there's something else wrong. If it doesn't start well AND it doesn't run well, I'd look at the box. But you need to check the wiring thoroughly first. It'll do all sorts of stupid stuff if it is not wired correctly. Check to make sure it gets enough voltage when cranking, and make sure the box itself is properly grounded, and the 12V connections are good.

FrankM · 10-20-2009, 06:38 AM

We had the same problem with one of our cars, we had the battery feed going to a distribution block and then to the starter. We switched it direct to the starter and then from the starter to the distribution block and now it starts like a charm.

njk53 · 10-20-2009, 07:48 AM

We had an Optima battery in our car and it was doing the same thing. I couldn't come to grips that this high dollar battery went south on us. It turned out the battery just got old and couldn't handle all the electronics in the car. New battery did the trick.

Check your alternator too. Should be putting out a touch over 14 volts.

Bob Shaw · 10-20-2009, 07:55 AM

Mike,
Try bypassing your neutral start switch.

buzzinhalfdozen · 10-20-2009, 07:58 AM

If the motor turns normally without the ign. being turned on than you could assume that all is well with the starter and battery. The MSD shouldn't use over app.20 amps try turning the timing WAY back and retest, you may just have far too much timing initially. This is an easy test to do only requiring you turn the dist. to test, I've seen MSD unit have different actual timing than a OEM unit. Joe You can also check the timing while you're cranking the motor over, just to be sure it's not too advanced.

Bill Edgeworth · 10-20-2009, 09:09 AM

You should check the voltage the MSD sees during cranking. An MSD box will not operate properly if it sees less than 10 volts. Also if you have an Optima battery they operate at about ½ volt lower than a conventional battery. They are good batteries but put you ½ volt closer to your box not working if you are experiencing major voltage drop during cranking. Cranking voltage drop is one of the reasons most ignitions have a direct to battery lead to bypass all voltage drops that can happen in cables and connections.

Mike W · 10-20-2009, 06:46 PM

Thanks to all that have replied. I used to have a optima battery and it went bad. I put a conventional marine battery in. I have a timing dial back controller in the car. When i dial it back it still has the problem. I have disconnected the neautral switch, and the starter is wired directly to the starter.
When the car starts to turn over its fine til it "hits" then its like it takes everything to turn it over. Turn the ignition off and it will turn over great. I have not checked the volts at the MSD at start.

Mike

Alan Roehrich · 10-20-2009, 07:46 PM

Verify that your timing mark and pointer are correct. Also, again, test your starter, your battery, and check your cables.

buzzinhalfdozen · 10-21-2009, 06:18 AM

Again sounds like too much timing lead. Try using a volt meter hooked to battery while cranking, you should have at least 11 volts while cranking. You still could be having an ign. timing issue even with the timing controller, I would verify the timing while cranking just for a quick test. Also verifying the pointer is accurate, as mentioned earlier. If as you say it turns over normally with Ign, off then the only difference with Ign. on is stater pushing against Comp. ie spark. Usually the simpelist things are the problem chaeck the basics first. Joe

10-19-2009, 06:59 PM	#1
Mike W Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	MSD ignition help!!! I have a MSD 6al ignition on my car and billet MSD distributor. Since I put the car together Ive had trouble with it starting, it only has 11.1 comp, someone suggested a switch to flip the ignition on once the motor started turning over, but as soon as you flip the switch it turns slow. i have a Tilton mini starter and ive run a ground from the battery to the motor and a ground from the motor to the frame. The 6al was the only thing i didnt buy new. Can the ignition box drain a battery? Can it also put total timing at start even if the distributor isnt locked out? Mike

10-19-2009, 07:32 PM	#2
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,113 Likes: 1,571 Liked 1,822 Times in 413 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! It is not likely that an MSD box will drain a healthy battery while you're starting the car. A 6AL, wired correctly, won't alter the timing, it'll only process what the distributor sends it. Have you had the battery(ies) thoroughly tested? Are you certain the timing is correct? Are you certain the box is wired correctly? It is possible that the box is bad, but normally if it runs well once it started, there's something else wrong. If it doesn't start well AND it doesn't run well, I'd look at the box. But you need to check the wiring thoroughly first. It'll do all sorts of stupid stuff if it is not wired correctly. Check to make sure it gets enough voltage when cranking, and make sure the box itself is properly grounded, and the 12V connections are good. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

10-20-2009, 06:38 AM	#3
FrankM Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 98 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! We had the same problem with one of our cars, we had the battery feed going to a distribution block and then to the starter. We switched it direct to the starter and then from the starter to the distribution block and now it starts like a charm.

10-20-2009, 07:48 AM	#4
njk53 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: East China, MI Posts: 504 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! We had an Optima battery in our car and it was doing the same thing. I couldn't come to grips that this high dollar battery went south on us. It turned out the battery just got old and couldn't handle all the electronics in the car. New battery did the trick. Check your alternator too. Should be putting out a touch over 14 volts. __________________ Nelson Kowal Stock 345

10-20-2009, 07:55 AM	#5
Bob Shaw Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sedalia, Mo Posts: 436 Likes: 329 Liked 316 Times in 61 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! Mike, Try bypassing your neutral start switch. __________________ Bob Shaw V/SA 515

10-20-2009, 07:58 AM	#6
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! If the motor turns normally without the ign. being turned on than you could assume that all is well with the starter and battery. The MSD shouldn't use over app.20 amps try turning the timing WAY back and retest, you may just have far too much timing initially. This is an easy test to do only requiring you turn the dist. to test, I've seen MSD unit have different actual timing than a OEM unit. Joe You can also check the timing while you're cranking the motor over, just to be sure it's not too advanced. __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117 Last edited by buzzinhalfdozen; 10-20-2009 at 09:13 AM.

10-20-2009, 09:09 AM	#7
Bill Edgeworth Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 258 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! You should check the voltage the MSD sees during cranking. An MSD box will not operate properly if it sees less than 10 volts. Also if you have an Optima battery they operate at about ½ volt lower than a conventional battery. They are good batteries but put you ½ volt closer to your box not working if you are experiencing major voltage drop during cranking. Cranking voltage drop is one of the reasons most ignitions have a direct to battery lead to bypass all voltage drops that can happen in cables and connections. __________________ Bill Edgeworth 6471 STK

10-20-2009, 06:46 PM	#8
Mike W Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 17 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! Thanks to all that have replied. I used to have a optima battery and it went bad. I put a conventional marine battery in. I have a timing dial back controller in the car. When i dial it back it still has the problem. I have disconnected the neautral switch, and the starter is wired directly to the starter. When the car starts to turn over its fine til it "hits" then its like it takes everything to turn it over. Turn the ignition off and it will turn over great. I have not checked the volts at the MSD at start. Mike

10-20-2009, 07:46 PM	#9
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,113 Likes: 1,571 Liked 1,822 Times in 413 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! Verify that your timing mark and pointer are correct. Also, again, test your starter, your battery, and check your cables. __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

10-21-2009, 06:18 AM	#10
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: MSD ignition help!!! Again sounds like too much timing lead. Try using a volt meter hooked to battery while cranking, you should have at least 11 volts while cranking. You still could be having an ign. timing issue even with the timing controller, I would verify the timing while cranking just for a quick test. Also verifying the pointer is accurate, as mentioned earlier. If as you say it turns over normally with Ign, off then the only difference with Ign. on is stater pushing against Comp. ie spark. Usually the simpelist things are the problem chaeck the basics first. Joe __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117