Pontiac intake question

Rory McNeil · 04-03-2008, 12:40 AM

A friend of mine is building a 1964 Pontiac 389 for a 64 GTO street car, that had been using a later 400. He bought the 389 as a core, but after spending a bunch of time on the 64 heads, he noticed that the heads appear quite different than the later style that was on the 400. Mainly the 64 heads have "dogleg" shaped coolant passages, where the 400 heads had round coolant holes with a pressed in heater hose nipple at the rear of the passenger side head. According to the Edelbrock catalog, the intake manifold for a 64 and older Pontiac is different than the 65 &newer. Does (or DID)any manufacterer make a single 4 barrel aluminum intake for the early heads? This is not going to be an "all correct, numbers matching" restoration, rather a mildish street driver, so a $3000. Tri Power setup is out of the question. Also, will any Pontiac headers fit these early heads, or is there potential concerns there as well? Any other early quirks to be aware of? Thanks.

Bill Edgeworth · 04-04-2008, 07:30 PM

Rory,

Give Dave or Marcel at SD Performance a call they may be able to help you out.
604-823-6624.

SAL PIACENTINI · 04-04-2008, 08:11 PM

Are there holes in the block for tle late style starter?

Floyd Staggs · 04-05-2008, 08:57 AM

I'll probably get flamed for this but check with Bruce
mailto:IndyWinner@dslextreme.com
He knows Pontiacs.

Dave Ribeiro · 04-05-2008, 10:27 AM

Rory,

You or your friend can go to PYforums.com, scroll down to street or race folders and they can answer your questions...All the Pontiac guys visit this site...I am sure they can help you out.

*Floyd, I would't send anyone there !! Somethings are better left alone.....enough said...

Rory, its a great site, you guys will love it..they cover everything you can think of.. Dave,

Bruce Fulper · 04-05-2008, 08:14 PM

You know, I decided with the unbelievable amount of unbelievable disrespect some of you children wish to throw my way that I don't need to see it. I never hear any cause there's isn't a single POS that's willing to come to my face with it - cause there's nothing to say.

Rory - use your own mind - and don't be influenced by children. I've never done one bad thing to anyone and no one can prove otherwise.

All you will read is innuendo, "I heard this" - "I heard that" Oh man - he's a bad man. Never a single piece of fact. I'm up for ANYTHING boys - got it? Me and my lawyer will make mincemeat outa this site and anyoone person for allowing this bull****.

Why today? After seeing one more dickweed of a human chime in with his own negativity - Dave, -
I decided to offer my clean slate for you ****heads to make fools of yourselves with again.

Go ahead - flame away children.

And BTW - TWO idiots that race Pontiacs can't answer this simple question for Rory?

Christ alf'in mighty....................

1961 to 1964 heads have the same intake bolt pattern - 1965 to 1979 have a different pattern. You must use the intake with the bolt pattern for the HEADS you're using. Doesn't matter what BLOCK it is.

Come by and see me sometime at www.PontiacEngines.com 909-370-0389

You cannot get better help.

Still the quickest S/S Pontiac in NHRA history - FOUR YEARS RUNNING !

Bye little kiddies.

Floyd Staggs · 04-05-2008, 09:11 PM

Dave,
Bruce has never done anything wrong to me and he has been a friend for about 14 years. I don't race a Pontiac, I have a BBC. But anytime I have ever needed advice he has always been there trying to help. I don't know what the beef is about but he has always been straight up with me.
By the way Bruce I found out that I can't run evac tubes with the mufflers I have. Flowmasters have too much back pressure.

kirk · 04-06-2008, 07:26 PM

years ago a friend had an old edelbrock torker, that he had welded up to work with his 64 heads. that might be an option, but not necessarily a cheap way to go. didn't look butchered either as I recall.

Kirk

Kevin McClelland · 04-07-2008, 09:26 PM

Floyd, with the Flowmaster mufflers it has nothing to do with back pressure and everything to do with placing the vacu-pan nipple in the muffler. Through many hours of testing on a flow bench and on the engine dyno with a 540 big block the most vacuum we were able to create was 1 inch of mercury! This was a day of testing of different angles cut on the end of tube, location of tube, angle of tube, and all the testing was done in a straight pipe (i.e. collector) not in a muffler.

Sorry guys, didn't mean to take up a Pontiac thread.

Kevin

P.S. Bruce, did you ever get the turn downs you were looking for? One of my tech guys said that he had spoke with you about them. Take care.

Jeff Goss · 04-07-2008, 11:07 PM

Hi Rory,

Call Dave at SD Performance. He is one of the most knowledgable Pontiac guys around. He helped me a great deal back in the 90's when I ran my 68 Lemans. Brad Potter knows a bunch also, even though he turned to the Chevrolet "darkside"-LOL.

Dave is local to us and has the smarts to properly answer your question.

Hope to see you this year!

Jeff Goss
6990 SS/MA

04-03-2008, 12:40 AM	#1
Rory McNeil VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: from Vancouver BC Canada, now in Nova Scotia Posts: 1,311 Likes: 317 Liked 1,104 Times in 302 Posts	Pontiac intake question A friend of mine is building a 1964 Pontiac 389 for a 64 GTO street car, that had been using a later 400. He bought the 389 as a core, but after spending a bunch of time on the 64 heads, he noticed that the heads appear quite different than the later style that was on the 400. Mainly the 64 heads have "dogleg" shaped coolant passages, where the 400 heads had round coolant holes with a pressed in heater hose nipple at the rear of the passenger side head. According to the Edelbrock catalog, the intake manifold for a 64 and older Pontiac is different than the 65 &newer. Does (or DID)any manufacterer make a single 4 barrel aluminum intake for the early heads? This is not going to be an "all correct, numbers matching" restoration, rather a mildish street driver, so a $3000. Tri Power setup is out of the question. Also, will any Pontiac headers fit these early heads, or is there potential concerns there as well? Any other early quirks to be aware of? Thanks. __________________ NHRA 6390 STK M/S 85 Mustang

04-04-2008, 07:30 PM	#2
Bill Edgeworth Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 258 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question Rory, Give Dave or Marcel at SD Performance a call they may be able to help you out. 604-823-6624. __________________ Bill Edgeworth 6471 STK

04-04-2008, 08:11 PM	#3
SAL PIACENTINI Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 51 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Pontiac intake question Are there holes in the block for tle late style starter?

04-05-2008, 08:57 AM	#4
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,522 Likes: 156 Liked 229 Times in 99 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question I'll probably get flamed for this but check with Bruce mailto:IndyWinner@dslextreme.com He knows Pontiacs. __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST

04-05-2008, 10:27 AM	#5
Dave Ribeiro VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Williamsburg, Va.---USA Posts: 1,827 Likes: 1,612 Liked 56 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question Rory, You or your friend can go to PYforums.com, scroll down to street or race folders and they can answer your questions...All the Pontiac guys visit this site...I am sure they can help you out. *Floyd, I would't send anyone there !! Somethings are better left alone.....enough said... Rory, its a great site, you guys will love it..they cover everything you can think of.. Dave, __________________ Dave Ribeiro 1033 STK

04-05-2008, 08:14 PM	#6
Bruce Fulper Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 651 Likes: 4 Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question You know, I decided with the unbelievable amount of unbelievable disrespect some of you children wish to throw my way that I don't need to see it. I never hear any cause there's isn't a single POS that's willing to come to my face with it - cause there's nothing to say. Rory - use your own mind - and don't be influenced by children. I've never done one bad thing to anyone and no one can prove otherwise. All you will read is innuendo, "I heard this" - "I heard that" Oh man - he's a bad man. Never a single piece of fact. I'm up for ANYTHING boys - got it? Me and my lawyer will make mincemeat outa this site and anyoone person for allowing this bull**. Why today? After seeing one more dickweed of a human chime in with his own negativity - Dave, - I decided to offer my clean slate for you **heads to make fools of yourselves with again. Go ahead - flame away children. And BTW - TWO idiots that race Pontiacs can't answer this simple question for Rory? Christ alf'in mighty.................... 1961 to 1964 heads have the same intake bolt pattern - 1965 to 1979 have a different pattern. You must use the intake with the bolt pattern for the HEADS you're using. Doesn't matter what BLOCK it is. Come by and see me sometime at www.PontiacEngines.com 909-370-0389 You cannot get better help. Still the quickest S/S Pontiac in NHRA history - FOUR YEARS RUNNING ! Bye little kiddies.

04-05-2008, 09:11 PM	#7
Floyd Staggs VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Cucamonga, CA Posts: 1,522 Likes: 156 Liked 229 Times in 99 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question Dave, Bruce has never done anything wrong to me and he has been a friend for about 14 years. I don't race a Pontiac, I have a BBC. But anytime I have ever needed advice he has always been there trying to help. I don't know what the beef is about but he has always been straight up with me. By the way Bruce I found out that I can't run evac tubes with the mufflers I have. Flowmasters have too much back pressure. __________________ Floyd Staggs 787 SST

04-06-2008, 07:26 PM	#8
kirk Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Kalamazoo Michigan Posts: 34 Likes: 2 Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question years ago a friend had an old edelbrock torker, that he had welded up to work with his 64 heads. that might be an option, but not necessarily a cheap way to go. didn't look butchered either as I recall. Kirk

04-07-2008, 09:26 PM	#9
Kevin McClelland Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 5 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question Floyd, with the Flowmaster mufflers it has nothing to do with back pressure and everything to do with placing the vacu-pan nipple in the muffler. Through many hours of testing on a flow bench and on the engine dyno with a 540 big block the most vacuum we were able to create was 1 inch of mercury! This was a day of testing of different angles cut on the end of tube, location of tube, angle of tube, and all the testing was done in a straight pipe (i.e. collector) not in a muffler. Sorry guys, didn't mean to take up a Pontiac thread. Kevin P.S. Bruce, did you ever get the turn downs you were looking for? One of my tech guys said that he had spoke with you about them. Take care. __________________ Kevin Mac 765 M/SA 7652 S/G

04-07-2008, 11:07 PM	#10
Jeff Goss Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Burlington, WA Posts: 361 Likes: 1 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Pontiac intake question Hi Rory, Call Dave at SD Performance. He is one of the most knowledgable Pontiac guys around. He helped me a great deal back in the 90's when I ran my 68 Lemans. Brad Potter knows a bunch also, even though he turned to the Chevrolet "darkside"-LOL. Dave is local to us and has the smarts to properly answer your question. Hope to see you this year! Jeff Goss 6990 SS/MA