Originally Posted by Ben Holt
Let me see if I can answer them for you
Yes, if you hit the index or set a record as an AH/SM you can expect to get a full super stock style teardown. That is straight from NHRA tech dept.
So if you "only" run .65 under not .71 under you don't get a teardown? You only get pumped and castings checked?
No, I do not believe a top running hemi car being able to run .65 under is a gift. It is a highly refined combo that, again, will not "magically" go faster as a comp car. And that is the beauty of comp. If one of these cars does go .65 under in elims, then the cic starts to come into affect and will in turn self regulate the index. That is the basis of comp.
Sure it is a highly refined combo, so are the other cars that run .35 under. It's hard not to see it as a bunch of rich guys that think they have spent enough money and deserve a "good index". By the way, if someone runs .65 under in eliminations, that's personal index, not cic.
Yes, I do agree with you that they need to actually run the class as it sits so that they can show in real world conditions that the index is off. Without doing a ton of research, there have been several this year that have competed. Wolkwitz, comella, welker, Bucky, pancake, and I think a few west coast guys have. I know several of my other customers considered it, but elected to stay in SS b3cause of the index.
I know that "several have competed" this year, but without names, dates, locations, and qualifying times all I'm hearing is speculation. I know it's a "ton" of research, but without research how do you propose to influence others with differing opinions?
I can only speak for my current customers, but everyone I know runs their car like they are trying to set a record every time they go to the water box. Only exception is probably comellas dart. They don't run it as hard but they are chasing points (and kicking butt!) And they have the red cuda to run shootouts with.
I'm trying not to be a smart-alec here. Is this a valid point of discussion?
First, minimum weight for ss/ah is 3200. Second, you can't compare a/sm and ah/sm. A/sm is allowed two dominators, any port work, titanium valves, aluminum rods, billet cranks, vacuum pumps, longer wheelie bars, 5 speeds, carbon brakes, etc. Just the 5 speed alone is probably a tenth.....
Okay, I missed the weight by 30 pounds, that makes AH/SM 7.2 pounds per inch instead of 7.14. Like it or not, if you do research Comp and isolate the classes based on pounds per inch you will see trends. Comp is at it's heart a pounds per inch class regardless of body type or induction system.
I was only using A/SM as an easy comparison,but lets go through your points anyway.
Carburetors: B/SM and C/SM are both 8.5 pounds per inch. B/SM gets two dominators, C/SM gets one 750 four barrel and .19 index for their trouble. Kind of dampens ones performance expectations doesn't it.
Any port work, titanium valves: Does anyone modify their heads as much as SS/AH? Give some of those other Comp classes a port volume limitation and see how little they slow down. I thought SS/AH already had titanium valves. Did they take them away, or was that discussion a lost cause?
Aluminum rods and billet cranks: If you find a Comp car running aluminum rods it's a matter of convenience not performance. Don't the hemi cars already get Honda diameter bearings? Do you do that on a "stock" forging? Or some type of lightened aftermarket forging that's already lightened and pendulum cut? Did you see the previous discussion about Chevrolet Stock Eliminator Cranks?
Wheelie bars: How much did it slow down Pro Stockers when they shortened wheelie bars?
5 speeds: If one gear is really worth a tenth, then the Super Stock Modified and Super Modified classes are all out of whack, they both get 5 percent for automatic transmissions, yet one runs a 4 speed and the other gets a 5 speed. Is the 5 speed faster? Is it REALLY a tenth faster....
Carbon Brakes: really.....carbon brakes?
Vacuum pump: Its worth something, but what?
So....by your math, we add all of this together and it's worth 6 tenths....Let's repeat that SIX TENTHS......between A/SM and AH/SM.
Give Rampy your index and a AH/SM with an automatic transmission, and you can kiss multiple Comp Championships goodbye.
As far as where is the data? There is 50 years of it. Or the last ten years of hemi shootout at indy. We compiled the data of the last 4 years of the shootout at indy versus comp qualifying and submitted that to nhra. When you look at that info, same track, weather, track, etc, it's pretty obvious where the index needs to be.
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