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Ed Hohenberg · 01-06-2008, 12:07 AM

I just fell into this thread accidentally (since I've been out of this stuff for a while so I don't frequent the S/SS forums anymore). I haven't followed NHRA or IHRA S/SS rule changes either since I retired, but got excited when I found out in this thread the FI classes are being dropped for 2008. Being segregated from the traditional stock classes and put into a bastard child FI class offended me, so much so that it prompted my move into SS, where I got my *** kicked quickly, and decided it was better to just retire than cut up my car and sink a whole other fortune into it for SS. So I took my knowledge of EFI and went into tuning the ridiculously complicated OEM EFI systems for others. I can assure the OP that there is no magic HP key in the EFI programming. And it's a hell of a lot more difficult than tuning a carb.

As one of the earliest EFI guys in Stock, who struggled for years to figure out the technology, and claw my way to the basic performance standard, forcing me into a EFI class was like a slap in the face to me.

Like many others, I couldn't resist commenting here. The argument is old, and doesn't seem to change. For fun, I dug up an old post I made in November 2000 during a similar argument when EFI classes were first implemented. Posted in its entirety below:

************************************************** ********************

As one of the early efi guys in stock, I have some comments.

When I first started running my Ford efi car in stock back in the late '80s, everyone laughed at me. Sure the car got 20 instant hp from NHRA (God knows why?), and it was slow and embarrassing as I fought with the electronics, but slowly and eventually the car got faster as I figured it out, improved control systems became available, and the NHRA factor got more reasonable. Sure, lots of others have figured it out well too since, and run fast enough now that the HP probably needs another 5 (or 10 for the Cobras), but that's what the new NHRA factoring system should do.

When guys started running the GM efi cars, they never had to deal with a high initial HP factor, and had the advantage of factory involvement (unlike Ford), newer electronic controls, and a better developed knowledge base to start with. So the GM efi cars got quick, real quick. And the NHRA factors started going up. They just haven't gone up enough yet. Again, that's what the new NHRA factoring system should do.

I have to think back about the A fuelers in TAD. They were laughed at too, but a few diehard guys worked hard, figured them out, then started going really quick. Then all the alcohol guys whined, and NHRA stepped in to adjust the A/F factors, and the playing field leveled out.

It's going to happen again in S/SS too, just give it a chance. NHRA used to adjust S/SS factors several times a year, but the system wasn't consistent. So they stopped adjustments for a long time (when was the last refactoring, does anyone remember?) while they worked on developing a better system. In the mean time, the underfactored cars flew, and there was much frustration with the overfactored or properly factored racers.

It's got nothing to do with EFI vs CARBS, and/or a need for separate classes. It's got everything to do with PROPER HP FACTORS! Anyone who doesn't understand that, or chooses not to, can stick their head back in the sand, and quietly go the way of the old Hudson Hornet racers in Stock. The future is not going away. Live with it.

As for "they some how manage to find 2-3 tenths", I can remember real well when Corda "mysteriously" picked up 2 tenths in his old Max Wedge, and beat (then A/SA record holder) Mosbek's 426 in a heads up elimination round at Brainerd several years ago. He's been doing that since long before EFI. So have plenty of others.

In another 10 years, the EFI guys will probably be complaining about the hybrid guys going too fast.....

5010 SS

01-06-2008, 12:07 AM	#112
Ed Hohenberg Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg Canada Posts: 4 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Dommination of FI cars. I just fell into this thread accidentally (since I've been out of this stuff for a while so I don't frequent the S/SS forums anymore). I haven't followed NHRA or IHRA S/SS rule changes either since I retired, but got excited when I found out in this thread the FI classes are being dropped for 2008. Being segregated from the traditional stock classes and put into a bastard child FI class offended me, so much so that it prompted my move into SS, where I got my * kicked quickly, and decided it was better to just retire than cut up my car and sink a whole other fortune into it for SS. So I took my knowledge of EFI and went into tuning the ridiculously complicated OEM EFI systems for others. I can assure the OP that there is no magic HP key in the EFI programming. And it's a hell of a lot more difficult than tuning a carb. As one of the earliest EFI guys in Stock, who struggled for years to figure out the technology, and claw my way to the basic performance standard, forcing me into a EFI class was like a slap in the face to me. Like many others, I couldn't resist commenting here. The argument is old, and doesn't seem to change. For fun, I dug up an old post I made in November 2000 during a similar argument when EFI classes were first implemented. Posted in its entirety below: ********************************************** ****************** As one of the early efi guys in stock, I have some comments. When I first started running my Ford efi car in stock back in the late '80s, everyone laughed at me. Sure the car got 20 instant hp from NHRA (God knows why?), and it was slow and embarrassing as I fought with the electronics, but slowly and eventually the car got faster as I figured it out, improved control systems became available, and the NHRA factor got more reasonable. Sure, lots of others have figured it out well too since, and run fast enough now that the HP probably needs another 5 (or 10 for the Cobras), but that's what the new NHRA factoring system should do. When guys started running the GM efi cars, they never had to deal with a high initial HP factor, and had the advantage of factory involvement (unlike Ford), newer electronic controls, and a better developed knowledge base to start with. So the GM efi cars got quick, real quick. And the NHRA factors started going up. They just haven't gone up enough yet. Again, that's what the new NHRA factoring system should do. I have to think back about the A fuelers in TAD. They were laughed at too, but a few diehard guys worked hard, figured them out, then started going really quick. Then all the alcohol guys whined, and NHRA stepped in to adjust the A/F factors, and the playing field leveled out. It's going to happen again in S/SS too, just give it a chance. NHRA used to adjust S/SS factors several times a year, but the system wasn't consistent. So they stopped adjustments for a long time (when was the last refactoring, does anyone remember?) while they worked on developing a better system. In the mean time, the underfactored cars flew, and there was much frustration with the overfactored or properly factored racers. It's got nothing to do with EFI vs CARBS, and/or a need for separate classes. It's got everything to do with PROPER HP FACTORS! Anyone who doesn't understand that, or chooses not to, can stick their head back in the sand, and quietly go the way of the old Hudson Hornet racers in Stock. The future is not going away. Live with it. As for "they some how manage to find 2-3 tenths", I can remember real well when Corda "mysteriously" picked up 2 tenths in his old Max Wedge, and beat (then A/SA record holder) Mosbek's 426 in a heads up elimination round at Brainerd several years ago. He's been doing that since long before EFI. So have plenty of others. In another 10 years, the EFI guys will probably be complaining about the hybrid guys going too fast..... 5010 SS