Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Earlier I started a thread that morphed into oil comparisons. I had been using Brad Penn 10-30 and tried some VR1 straight 30 with test results for both. Ed asked for me to post results back then so here's where I am so far. Here's the original thread http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...ght=ron+gusack.

Testing is from Blackstone. I put 9 runs on fresh 10-30 BP with a new Wix filter and 12 runs with fresh VR1 straight 30 and a fresh filter. I sent both samples in at the same time to eliminate Blackstone's machine calibration from being a factor although I don't know if different test machines were used. I divided the number of runs into the amounts of aluminum and iron for each oil to compare wear. I don't really know what I'm doing but I think I'm learning stuff so if you see major flaws, please jump in.

Brad Penn 10/30
9 runs
aluminum was 12/9=1.33
iron was 36/9=4.0
zinc 1652
phosphorus 1482
molybdenum 1
viscosity at 210F was 56.6 and should be 62-74. This could be because I had 3.8% fuel in the oil. Less than 2% is their acceptable range.

VR1 30 weight
12 runs
aluminum 9/12=.75
iron 20/12=1.66
zinc 1351
phosphorus 1271
molybdenum 58
viscosity was 59.7 at 210F and should be 62-74. This could be because I had 3% fuel in the oil, which I gotta figure out. Less than 2% is their acceptable range.

Judging from these results, I'd say the VR1 is a better oil. I don't like all the moly in it and it's the main reason I got away from VR1 back in the 80's. Tear downs always had a bunch of black slime in the pan and I hated it. A Valvoline tech told me it was moly. It was sorta like the paraffin we used to find in Quaker State engines in the 70's. Blackstone's tech told me that up to 20% of old oil remains in an engine when a change is done so the VR1 has some BP in it. I'm gonna go back with VR1 30 when the season starts and see what the results are and I'm going to up the number of runs between changes.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Great info thanks for the post, the results are a little surprising to me . What oil and how many runs was on it before you added the Brad Penn , just asking if 20% of earlier oil may have had an effect on the results.? just wondering...

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

The engine has only had BP 10-30 since it was built, which was 146 runs before the 9 test runs. The VR1 went in at 155 total runs so it will start the year at 167 runs. Blackstone said "up to 20%" I doubt that I have anywhere near that cause I let it drip until it pretty much stops and that's with the front end up. I'm sure there's a fair amount trapped in various places, but 20% seems high.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

That 20% might be a little low for Brad Penn. That oil is gooey and is stuck to everything. I usually run BP in all my motors, so at the tear down it is very messy. For better testing results you should have used an engine flush. Your results would have additional weight in making a very good determination.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

I told Blackstone that I was going to stay with VR1 for at least 2 more changes to have a better chance of having all Valvoline by the 3rd or 4th oil change. I told them my plan was to do AAA-BBB-AAA testing instead of A-B-A.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

How many runs are you going to do between changes? What do others do? Thanks.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Thank you!! So far I have stayed with VR1. I use 10W30.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

How many runs between changes? Thanks.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Always use VR1 10-30 on both cars! (Engine builder direction).

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

I don't change it often. I cut the filter open after each race. Guess it gets a new quart in the new filter each race. New oil about mid season. Clean oil, clean filters, I don't see the point of more often changes. May be why I don't see a pan full of crap like some discribe.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Dave Layer and myself were dyno'ing one afternoon over at his shop. I don't know how we missed it, but we made a complete 7800 rpm pull after the oil pump pic-up broke off on the previous pull. Embarrassing for both of us,. I don't know what we were looking at, but obviously not what we were supposed to be. The printout let us know we only had 5 lbs. of pressure the entire pull. We pulled all the caps, and the bearings looked like they had never been ran. Pretty unbelievable. The oil was Amsoil 10-30 Racing.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Did that improve the power at all ?

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Curious x2

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

I looked up the sheets. Five horsepower. The pick-up broke on pull # 3 and the no oil pressure was pull was # 4. The short block had been broke in previously with a different set of heads. So oil temp might have been a little of that five horsepower. Dave's dyno did not register oil temp. Experienced dyno operators on here will know better than me
Man we sure do miss that guy ………..

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

A very well respected engine builder told me that on one occasion the customer told him to drain all the oil out of the SBC engine before the last pull, it picked up 8 HP and was still in one piece when disassembled for a freshen up......I won’t reveal his name but he was the mayor of a small city between Texas and Arkansas.....
..LOL. ,!!!

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Pull the pan when the engine is still hot/warm and you won't see that. High zinc oils (over 1,000 ppm) will precipitate additives when the oil is cold. -Al

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

So 5-8 hp from 10w30 to no oil ! Is it really worth any hp, from 10w30 to 0w5 LOL .we all do it ,but.......

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Oil helps the rings seal , without any maybe you would lose power from that and offset the gains from low oil pressure .

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Looking for Opinions / Experiences on the differences between using Valvoline VR 10w-30 Synthetic-Blend vs Valvoline VR 10w-30 "Full Synthetic" motor oil?

Specifically with respect to ring wear?

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

This might be true Alan, but I don't see the same amount in the pan after switching to Brad Penn, which has no moly. If I convince myself that the VR1 has better wear numbers, I'll gladly live with some goop in the pan.

The question that I can't seem to get a decent answer to is why so many racers use multi weight oil instead of straight weight.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

May I ask the part number of the Valvoline oil you refer to?
I have used the VV850 in the past but they no longer offer it.
I believe they changed the formulation.

Do you use an additive with the oil?

______________________________________

Andy Stone A/S 1102 SS/C 1112

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

The oil I used is straight 30 racing oil. It used to be commonly called VV223 but the Valvoline part number is 822401. Scroll down a little to find Valvoline's conventional oil part numbers, https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...vr1-racing-oil

I don't use any oil additives.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

don't use either.

Been running Mobil 1 Synthetic 10w-30 in my race engines for nearly 3 decades.

This past season switched to Lucas Synthetic. Have a case of Maxima Synthetic that I will run this season.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Finished the 2018 season using Red Line 5-20 synthetic race oil. There was very, very little additive separation when I pulled the pan. What you see in a cold oil pan...full of cold oil...isn't an indicator of what's happening when the oil is hot and flowing.

The oil deal is a bigger issue for Stockers that have to use a flat tappet camshaft combined with high spring pressures and aggressive lobe profiles. For those not running under that set of rule constraints, there are dozens of oils that will work well.

Excessive additive precipitation is something to consider when choosing an oil filter. Those dots can be connected accordingly. ;) -Al

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

It's my understanding that multi-viscosity oils get circulated faster on start-up when it's cold, which helps protect sooner and reduce wear. I also read some time ago that multi-viscosity oils make more HP, but I don't recall why. It might be that drag engine oil don't usually reach "normal" operating temperatures, if I understand viscosity numbers correctly. (i.e.: 10w-30 - 10w=cold, 30=hot.

Valvoline says that straight weight oils are usually recommended for smaller and older engines.

5th question down:

https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/f...-viscosity-faq

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

I had really good luck with the full synthetic Valvoline racing oil. Cant seem to find it anymore at the local parts stores.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

I've been really happy with JR-1

You may want to look at Reher-Morrision tech tips on oil and filters, oit of 100 tips they are toward the end (95 & up as I recall) Filter tip very interesting

One thing they told me was to try Bad *** oil, I believe the originator of the early good Royal Purple.

FWIW

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

Thanks Ed!

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

There is a racing oil brand that has been recommended to me by Nick Ferri.
It's manufactured in the USA by HPL Superior Lubricants.
Nick shared with me that it is the oil he has been using for some time; it makes power and protects the engine. I believe Bo Butner is also using HPL Racing Oils too.

https://www.hploil.com/

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

For a tough heads up, mine is just a few hundredths quicker on Royal Purple "race 9", which is, IIRC, zero-10wt? Pours like water.

A friend in the lab at the Sunoco refinery here locally tested some oils for myself & a couple of racer/friends. The highest load before gaulding the ball on the load tester was 10W30 Valvoline VR1. I had used Penzoil for years, since they furnished my oil for a few years ago. When the free oil ended, I felt like I owed it to them to start buying it. Tested well also. The VR1 handled more load than anything. RP was very close. They tested what I could find. Pennzoil tested well too. VR1 tested best.
I am not claiming to know everything about this. Only what friends tested for us.
Your results may vary.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

I'll do one more round with straight 30 and then switch to 10-30 to see if my test results move any.

Re: Penn vs Valvoline test results..Ed Wright
 

This is a little off topic... but still oil related...
I've been hearing of some guys finding power on the dyno using some of the new oils designed for older Hi mileage engines. They say it is because the rings seal better. Anyone have any experience with that?