Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Not yet Mark...it has some ill fitting stainless no name on it atm. :(

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Almost ready for some shakedown runs...

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psxsirnndv.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psgmq0cchv.jpg

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Just recently sold my house and I'm homeless atm, but I will do my best to keep this updated.

Took the El Camino to it's first race today...a Stk/SS Combo at Bowling Green. It became sorely apparent this junk motor was just not up to the task as the qualifying showed it unable to run the 12.15 index in H/SA. It ran a 12.39 @ 105mph first pass followed by a 12.21 @ 107mph the last qualifier.

I discovered I was about 10 degrees retarded in timing after the first pass...I still have no explanation of how that happened. At any rate, the timing being adjusted properly made a dramatic difference in performance for the second pass.

I figured the Q-jet was a bit rich, so I hustled a metering rod swap for a big swing which helped me close in on the 12.15 dial I had to apply to the windshield for the first round of eliminations. It liked the leaner offering and I pulled off a first round win with the untested Camino in it's maiden race. I was beaten in the second round running under the dial-in, but realistically probably could not have pulled out a win in that round.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pske1y4kht.jpg

At the end of the day I guess I should be tickled with the first outing even with the shortcomings. The vehicle is almost 80 pounds heavy for H and I really have nothing left to pull out. A move to I/SA would seem prudent at this stage as 45 more pounds would be an easier solution. Being a 100+ hp short sure doesnt make for a rosy future regardless of class...all it needs is more money thrown at it lol.

I can probably coax another two tenths out of it with some thrashing. I'll have Mark Faul's three step headers in hand sometime Tuesday which should have a positive effect vs the junk 1-5/8's currently in the bay. I have no regrets so far...love the stance and it drives/fits my personality to a T. Wish me luck!

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Pretty good for the first time out, Rich. Car looks good, will run the index and you'll no doubt find another two tenths with a bit of tuning as a buffer for summer conditions. Plus, you'll likely pick up .007-.008 relative to the index just by going to 'I'. And except for heads up run, you don't need to go fast to go rounds.

You're doing what more people should do...just get out there and race. :) -Al

P.S. What have you got for cam/lifters/springs?

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

It has all Comp valvetrain atm Alan...it was originally a street motor and less than ideal for this application. I'll have to build from scratch for a new powerplant. This was just to get it up and running quickly...really not bad for what it is.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Heck..in that case, you should be very happy.

Hope you kept the shop when you sold the house. :) -Al

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Great start, nice to see that truck at the track!

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Thanks guys! The "shop" is at my partner's spread Alan...I bed down at night with both race vehicles in sight. :D

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Really sharp white with the black wheels!!!

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Looks awesome, and you did great. Don't get too caught up in the go fast stuff, run the number, go rounds and have fun.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Looks great Rich! and not too shabby for the first outing with the budget
motor! Love it!

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Saturday May 27, 2017
Beech Bend Raceway
Bowling Green, Kentucky

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Thanks Doug! Sunday morning brought a first round heads-up race against a .900-under the index car lol...I almost had him. :p

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Looks like it leaves nice and square, Rich. Cool car, for sure. -Al

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

A recent operator error revealed something of interest I had not considered. At a local TNT session my first pass was a beast off the line...not so good down track. By beast I mean my 60' times went from it's usual 1.61 to a stellar 1.50...launching hard and jerking the front wheels 2' off the ground. The et's and mph were not reflecting what was happening on the starting line however.

It was not until I returned home that I discovered that somehow my locked timing was at nearly 50 degrees advanced. It did not like it at the end of the track, but boy howdy did it love the timing at launch.

With the programmable 6AL I have installed I was able to plot a timing curve which will allow 48 degrees until 5000rpm and then begin pulling timing out thereafter down to 36 degrees. I have yet to test this and no idea if it will pan out.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pskqeel1it.jpg

If anyone here sees a problem with this experiment I would be happy listen to the pros/cons.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

I think you should do some more checking first. Agreed that you can utilize more timing at the beginning of the run, but I've never seen anything like your combo have that much timing. Something is amiss.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

X2 that is a pile of timing

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Agreed it is a lot, but it will be pulling most of that out before the 60' lights easily. Talked to some racers at the SportsNationals and they were also running near that much timing initially at the start...difference was they were using micro-switches on their shifter to activate the retards.

My thoughts are the engine will never drop below 5000rpm again after the launch...it will only be utilizing the high timing for a very brief period of time. Testing will tell the tale.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Reminds me of the dual point distributor mods that permitted turning off the one set of points, so as to retard the timing.

But, if an engine makes the most power with say, 35*; how could it run better with 50*?
Especially if the stall speed is what? 5000? 5500? I mean maybe it will make more torque at low rpm's, maybe. But it never spends time there and the convertor won't allow it to.

Just thinking out loud. I had this idea for a car years ago. (Over advancing.) We never tried it because we "bench raced" past it. (And had another beer, but thats another story.)

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

All I can report at this time is the effect it had at the last outing. Weather permitting I will be taking it to Bowling Green this Saturday afternoon and the et slip will determine what it wants.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

If your SBC likes 50 degrees of timing, it will be the first one .....are you sure TDC is correct ?......

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Yeah, TDC is correct. Those racers I mentioned earlier run Stockers .900 under and quicker...they showed me the graphs of the runs, the switches in the shifter and the qualifying sheets tell no lies. ;)

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

No harm in trying it, if it doesn't like it what are you out one pass, and isn't trying things the name of the game in stock and superstock. I always thought that was the key to speed buy it, try it, and put it on the shelf

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Results are on hold for a bit...lost first gear in the metric right at the hit on it's first pass yesterday. :mad:

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

The metric is still in the shop, but I have a new Coan LW TH350 along with a matching converter in the car now. I figured with the added low gear set I would'nt lose too much vs the metric. I'm looking for it to be a more durable unit in the long run.

Concerning the timing experiment - While the new parts may negate an accurate comparison for now, I cannot discern much difference in performance between the two transmissions/converters. Took it to a local bracket race last night and had a limited amount of time to experiment (did make it to round 5 tho). It is still hitting like a hammer at launch with wheels in the air...the reduction in 60' times nearly a tenth just as it showed with the metric combo.

I'm pretty well convinced the results are due to the timing alterations. Next outing I will try some subtle changes such as pulling the timing back sooner.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Sneaking up on it...a 1.50 60' on this pass. I need to figure out how to adjust the H&R bar to level it out. Also the carb I built is super rich down track...did'nt even lean out beyond 12.2 afr. :eek:

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psmjencc3m.jpg

Another secret weapon...:p

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psffef3db2.jpg

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

I have a question not related really to this thread, but don't know where the appropriate section would be.

Ordered a Sundowner enclosed gooseneck trailer over three months ago from Trailer World in Bowling Green KY. Half the purchase price was paid upfront. I was under the impression that it would arrive in two months time...a phone call after that period got no definite answer. Another phone call was made after three months had elapsed just to get some kind of estimate of a delivery date...fellow told me he was busy unloading trailers and he would check on it, but never got back to me.

Is this a normal waiting period for a new trailer and normal customer relations? Fast approaching four months now and don't want to be a dick, but... :rolleyes:

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Rich, It took 8 weeks to receive my enclosed after I ordered it in 2010. I am aware that some in my area are waiting 10-12 weeks this year.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Can't offer anything about the trailer. I still use a 36-year-old, homebuilt, open, single axle car trailer. (No I'm not adding another axle.:rolleyes:)

For the naysayers, I have had similar results with a lot of ignition timing. Yes, I've checked TDC, a few times, with different balancers. On mine, it helped down track as well, though.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

If everything is correct (balancer/marker/etc) I'm wondering if being a stocker cam on a less than ideal shortblock is producing low cyl pressure and the timing advanced that far is making up for it? As the rpm goes up, the better the cam breathes (less overlap losses of cyl pressure) and it gradually gets back to what is considered normal at 36*?

I'm thinking a tight ring package and decked block so the quench area is ideal and higher static compression would produce more cyl pressure and require less advance on the bottom?

What is the cranking pressure?

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

I can take the delay even though it was estimated at 2 months. What really bugs me is the lack of concern/communication after the deal. I'm not one to make constant phone calls/inquiries...just would like some idea/time frame so plans can be made at least on my end. Already missed several races and I wanted some info so I could arrange time to have the truck painted. I finally said screw it and took the truck apart and carted it off to the paint shop. If they call anytime soon now about the trailer I could not pick it up as it is the only one with a gooseneck hitch that I own.

Probably not any concern to them, but a couple of friends who were interested in buying a trailer have taken notes of my experience thus far. ;)

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Don't have those figures atm, but the same set-up is about to be tested on a fresh F/SA Corvette...that will answer some questions for sure. He will be using a maximum of 44 degrees on his runs.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

I don't know on the cranking pressure currently. Have been swapping cams. The heads are milled, the block is decked. Supposed to be 9 1/2:1, open chamber FFFord heads. I didn't pick up as much in the 60, but in the quarter it was better than .1 and almost 2 mph.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Dave, you're running a Cleveland though and milled or not the open chambers have slow flame propagation and poor mix. I would think that would add a new dimension into the whole thing compared to a smaller chamber chev.
Compared to a Windsor, the bigger chamber Cleveland liked more timing all through the rpm from what I remember too.

For comparison sake, I built a 289 with 260 heads and it was quickest with 28*. Small efficient chamber required little advance (didn't breath worth squat even with the 1.78/1.48 valves put in) Would nose over around 6000 regardless of cam/carb/exh/etc but man it would go from idle to 5800 like a fuel motor!

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

I had an 11:1 351 Windsor in my car before I decided to try Stock. With the timing at 36 it slowed .2 on 110 Sunoco. I raced it @ 40. It had 215lbs cranking compression.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Wow Dave, that's abnormal for a sbf. I'm assuming you were using 69-70 351W heads? I had a 2 4bbl 302 I built which liked 38* which seemed a lot, when I pulled it apart the pistons were washed clean around the circumference of the piston and the centre was black. I chalked it up to something I did wrong while porting and chamber work and that was why I needed 38. 40 though, that to me seems pretty high.

Course they all ain't the same are they? Lol!

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

You need to add some preload to right rear bar end.
I have same set up.
I make adjustment with my weight in deicers seat aka friend and some stuff in drivers seat and adjust to 0 preload.
That gets it in ballpark and expand or contract right side as needed.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

I did just that the other day while in the shop. I have yet to get back to the track to test it further...calling for rain and temps in the upper 40's for this weekend. It's about time for an engine swap and I may just retire it for the winter to concentrate on getting it ready for next spring.

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Yes on the 69-70 351W heads.

Around the circumference? Can't say for sure but sounds like a Ring issue to me.

Can I ask what fuel you were running that your sbf liked just 28*?

Re: '67 El Camino H/SA
 

Dave I was running 110-140 Av gas from the airport. You'd think more octane and slower flame front would want more but I just used what was available at the time and adjusted to its quickest. It is what it is I guess?



Chris, sorry for derailing the thread.