Schubeck lifters
 

What's the proper break-in procedures for these lifters on a solid lift cam? Oil, rpms, spring pressure, etc.
This is my first times using these and I have been told that break-in is much like break-in using roller lifters, is that correct?

JimR

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

There is no break in procedure. But unless you have the full ceramic solids, I'd be very careful with the solid, or hydraulic ceramic bottoms. Cost me a good engine.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

What ever you plan to race with CK the lifter bore .0017 to 002 and keep up with the pressure

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

No break in proceedure, set the valve adjustment and run em.
Be aware if and when your engine is in valve float, and run enough spring pressure. Nothing wrong with these if you pay attention. Many racers run these for a long time with positive results.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Jim, as the other said no brake in necessary. What we did when we did a cam change was take a spring shim out, warm the car up a couple times, checking things as we went. Then installed the shims back in to put the seat pressure where it needs to be, then run it. I know these steps are not necessary but I was extra cautious. We run a sbc, hyd set up. I know it is a different combo, but we run shubecks.

Robert

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Thanks guys,

Application is max wedge, solid cam

JimR

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

I just had a Schubeck lifter loose it's puck, the engine got f**ked. Never put them in any engine again. Use tool steel lifters for now on.

Casey Miles
248H "F" NHRA Stock!

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Like Todd said you have to stay on top of spring pressures with the puck style lifter. If you dont the cams are so aggresive these days it actually throws the lifter off the lobe, when it comes back down and makes contact the puck gets knocked off. Im extra cautious about spring pressures simply for that reason and probably have WAY to much, but (knock on wood) ive used the same schubecks that Jeff Velde gave me 10 years ago that came out of one of his engines. Same thing applies for the roller lifters, thats the reason they break the wheels off, not enough spring pressure and everything starts bouncing.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Warning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if these are Schubeck dont use them. With Schubeck you dont know if they are the US made or the overseas ones you could have a real problem on your hands. If they are the Smith Machine ones your good to go. Chuck

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Not true the Smith lifters have almost the same failure rate. think smith made the bodys or subecks.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

sorry your info is not accurate
here the deal bob smith made the first gen lifter for the first year or so then schubeck move over to different suppliers (cutting cost) and here came the failures. this is accurate. your welcome

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Well I have seen 4or 5 failures last year, sent 1 set back after one failed he check them sent them back 10 later another one failed. I would sell them cheap if your brave enough

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

We had SM Lifters (not Schubecks), a puck got scared of 9K+ rpms and decided to leave, did a fair bit of damage. This was at a pro's shop being dynoed when it occurred.
Rights springs, right everything, lifter just flat out failed. Cost a bunch to fix it all....

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Wow 9K+ rpm for a flat tappet cam and lifters. What kind of spring being used for that application. Just want to know that combo.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

I was at a dyno session with a new 426 max wedge. 5th or 6th pull there was a quick miss in the engine and immediately the engine was shut off. Completely destroyed the new maxie. Needed new pistons and a complete rebuild. A puck had come off one of the new lifters. I would not use them, but many racers have had good luck with them. Good luck to you! Dyno

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Jim, I have been running them for years with no problems. Installed 5 or 6 cams and ran them flat out.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Schubeck lifters.... Buyers beware, A large number of racers have ran them with NO problems, However if they fail they take a lot of good parts with them . Risk vs. Reward ? .....M.J.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

We have had a bunch of trouble with them......Smith's too!

I have several near new sets of Smith's Hyd. and the punks can be
removed easily by pulling them out of housing. i am scared to use them.
Can the punks be safely glued back in? I am scared to try....... Smith's
never answers the phone or returns my calls.

Apparently my business means less than nothing to them.....In last 10 to 15 years I have bought no less than 12 sets. they were better when I first started to use them and got them from Schubeck right at his shop in Vegas.
Of nearly a dozen sets........About 4 sets broke!!

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

We have never hurt a Schubeck without another failure coming first. However, the first and only business dealing I had with Schubeck was very bad. That said, we/I have not run any of Smith's, but a lot of people I know who are extremely well versed in Stock Eliminator engines have lost Smith's lifters, not likely through any fault of anything but the lifter. Had even worse dealings with PPPC. That's the reason I use and sell Trend tool steel lifters now, after nearly 4 years of selling more than two dozen sets as a small low volume dealer, I've not had anyone complain of a failure, and most have bought more than one set.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Sounds good to me. I've had no problems with Smiths yet, but the tool steel setup sounds a lot more reliable. Does anything have to be done to the camshaft?I have Bullet steel billet cams in both my motors, nice pieces, but I don't need glass fragments all through the place. Who sells the Trends and are they just a drop in replacement for the Smiths?

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Trend lifters are available in various grades, from the $25-$28 flat tappet (or "solid") and hydraulics I usually sell, all the way up to $80 NASCAR lifters with DLC coatings.

Trend will tell you that the $80 NASCAR grade DLC coated lifter is the ultimate and truly correct setup for a steel billet core. A lot of people run the lower cost versions.

The cam should be nitrided, and preferably micro polished to the slickest surface possible for the best possible result.

Many people are keeping the Schubeck or Smith lifters, using them only to break in the camshaft, then switching to the Trend for another break in before making power runs. They can break in an unlimited number of camshafts that way, and the result is even better than having the camshaft polished, you can actually skip that process.

If you have already run the Smith's, you can simply do another normal break in with the Trend lifters. The pushrod cup may not be in the same location, so you may need to change pushrods to get the correct lift. In the aftermarket, there is apparently no industry standard for pushrod cup height.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

So it looks like $450-500 for the Trend lifter for the 327,plus they drop in since both engines have lots of run time on them with the Smiths Originally, with the lack of zinc in our oils, cast iron cams were not living, so I thought the Schubeck or Smith lifter would alleviate that, also,the valve spring tensions that we use make the cast iron cam a strength factor,so that is why I ordered Bullet cams that were steel billet and paid extra for it, which I don't mind if that is what it takes to not break engines.That is the set up I have run for the last five or six years with no problems. I don't turn engines to the moon anyway, preferring longevity over optimal numbers, so that seems logical. E mail me at chevellegreg7376@hotmail.com with the details.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Alan.
What do you do about cutting back oiling to rockers on Trends?
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Will the Trend "low movement" lifter pass for a hydraulic lifter in a stocker?

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Yes .Only need .015 travel. They just want to see it squirt oil when compressed.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Another option is to run Sherman Lifters.
Many are using them with no problems and will not break the bank.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

If necessary, we use restrictors, or restricted pushrods.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

One I freshened up had trends I ended up having to restrict inside the lifters, could'nt get the right flow with oil restrictors in block,kept adding restriction to it till it looked good at the back rockers,but wouldn't oil the front or put oil out between lifter bores and lifters,
Ended up restricting inside of lifters to get it oiling right,probably could have done with restricted pushrods but it had good pushrod in it and didn't have a few ,more days to wait.
The correct thing would be have them make the lifters with oil hole moved up above oil band like most roller lifters.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Do you think Smith will help you if one breaks?. He said to bad to me.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

The drag racing lifters are different from the NASCAR lifters, they were designed when we had ball and stud rockers and not roller rockers. I'm pretty sure I can get Trend to do something if necessary. We had bad problems with the PPPC stuff that was made the way an edge orifice Z-28 lifter is made, they had to be modified, or they'd starve the top end and fry it.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

So, the best way to "break in" a new cam for Trend lifters is to purchase a set of Smith lifters, "break in the cam" (Smith lifters require no break in) buy the Trend lifters, "break in the cam", and PRAY. If you have to pay the engine builder to do this on his dyno, looks like about a 2 grand waste of money.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Just had a Schubeck junk my west coast swing engine. Same cam ,lifters, and stuff we have used for two or three years. Oil pan was full of ceramic and cam metal. I might be able to save rods and crank.


It might be time for roller lifters. Do any of the present cars, not copos, dragpaks, or C jets, have flat tappet lifters?

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Larry I can feel your pain. I had two Schubecks crap out last year and a Smith lifter messed up my motor this year. Coated Precision tool steel lifters are the way to go. Talk to Chris at Comp.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Just for information, I have a proposal into NHRA to allow aftermarket rollers in lieu of flat tappets. Why not try to get some folks to work on this. There has not been a flat tappet since the early 80's and I pointed that out along with only one manufacturer in the US. I know we squabble a bit, but those things are bad ancient unlike most of the old cars which are good ancient. Bruce, jump on that and get the troops to emailing CA and the Divisions. It's time for a change on that.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

With all the problems that racers have had with the Schubeck lifters why does a lot of racers continue to use them? Their just asking for trouble! How many has Schubeck replaced?

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Larry,
Did you have any other damage to your valvetrain? Broken rocker, damaged pushrod, loose adjuster?

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Basically, you would need a cam ground straight across the lobe for roller lifters,not tapered for flat tappet lifters, the rollers, the link bar, what about a rev kit to keep the rollers in the block in the event of pushrod or rocker failure?Sounds like a good answer to the recent problems that have surfaced. I feel that a rational,sensible appeal to the tech department with this proposal is in order. So many 305 and 350 blocks are machined for the factory roller set up already,as is the Dart block. Seems to make sense that an aftermarket design exists for the OEM earlier blocks as well.Meanwhile,converting from ceramic base to tool steel lifters sounds like a good way out.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

I ask NHRA to make roller lifters an option 3 years ago, no response.
Just the cost and availability makes it a no brainer. Maybe if more
racers send emails something will happen.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

Not if I know Drag Racers! Next you'll see more wiped and broken cams, valve and valvetrain and spring failures. Availability maybe. Cost? Bull.

Re: Schubeck lifters
 

If the ceramic foot lifter always stays in contact with the cam the lobe, then the ceramic foot is a lot less likely to shatter. Issue (as far as I'm concerned) is that the optimal performing stocker camshaft will incorporate some amount of loft (cam/lifter separation for increased dynamic lift) incorporated into the design, therefore I'd only consider a steel/DLC coated flat lifter for a stocker application. Some of you may even be lofting and don't know it, or might find out when you have a failure.

In addition to the Precision steel lifters mentioned, I've used the Ferrea lightweight steel SBC flat lifters with the foots polished, successfully in a 8200 rpm SBC on a nitrided cam core.