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-   -   ceramic bearings (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=36547)

eddie c 10-14-2011 10:25 PM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
If you could only afford one set of ceramic bearings, which set would give
you the biggest advantage? ed:confused:

Jeff Lee 10-15-2011 11:39 AM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
My GUESS would be rear end. I have a Dana 60 with all MW parts. I'm about to get the Performance bearings package for the entire rear. I just need the shop to narrow the axle tubes, put new ends on it and get final measurements so I can get the new axles ordered. Previous axles were MW 40 spline with 11/16" rifle bore. New axles will be MW 40 spline with 1 1/16" rifle bore and 300M material. I'm also changing from 5:13 ratio to 5.86 ratio. Both the old and new ring gear are back-cut. The R&P will be coated (see last paragraph).
I'll take a measurement of torque to rotate the pinion before and after and post the results here. I'm not sure how or if I should measure torque at the axle? Don't expect this next week, this shop is slower than molasses! But we had a long talk yesterday and he's made a commitment to get the chassis & engine done by the end of this year. I'll believe it when I see it but I'm making a big push. I will push real hard to get the Dana up and ready to run. That also involves setting the engine / trans in the car with new motor plates to determine positioning of the Dana and axle size left & right. I'm not sure what MW's lead time is on these 300M axles. So just pushing for the rear-end to be completed will get the chassis well on the way to completion.

FYI - Same shop has had a hand in a customers vintage 4-cylinder road race car. After using a propriety coating on all bearings and bushings from front to rear (spindles, trans, rear), the car reduced lap times by 8 seconds. That's huge. He also believes that true ceramic bearings would be better yet.

Chris Barnes 10-15-2011 01:01 PM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
I know that top of the line professional bicycles use ceramic bearings. The general consensus is that they are worth it if you must keep up with the Joneses with a big budget but that there are generally a few better ways to spend money for regular folks.

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

Jeff Lee 10-15-2011 01:45 PM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barnes (Post 287981)
I know that top of the line professional bicycles use ceramic bearings. The general consensus is that they are worth it if you must keep up with the Joneses with a big budget but that there are generally a few better ways to spend money for regular folks.

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

I got on this kick when I took apart my son's fancy looking bike purchased from Wal-Mart. I wanted to see if I could make it faster. So I looked at the bearings and I was going to put synthetic grease in crank. The bearings and cage looked like sand cast bearings and the cage was a folded over piece of junk. Then I went to a bike shop and saw what the more expensive bikes used. And we're talking the $350 kids bikes over the $79 Wal-Mart bikes; not the high end race bikes. Night and day difference. Now I know why I get on my Wal-Mart Mtn. bike I'm huffing and puffing in a few blocks but when I try the other guys $800 bikes it's enjoyable.
But yes, I'm sure $$ can be spent elsewhere for better gains and if it's not in the budget, then that takes care of that. But then again I see people spend $20K on an engine and cry like a baby over spending $2,000 to $3,000 on a clutch that will actually let the car perform like it should.

Chris Barnes 10-15-2011 02:25 PM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
It's just one more example of how a race car or bike is the some of it's parts.

Jumping on a nice bike after a crappy one is impressive. I think the biggest gain on a bike is the light wheels. If you could fit Lance Armstrong's wheels on your Huffy you would be amazed. Hold a heavy wheel in your hand and spin it, it will pull you around the room. Do the same with a light wheel and feel the difference. Of course you would also notice the better bearings during this experiment.

Speaking of bearings, wouldn't changing over to ball bearings and lighter lube accomplish much of what we're trying to get from the ceramics?

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

Pvt Parts 10-16-2011 02:59 AM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee (Post 287963)
My GUESS would be rear end. I have a Dana 60 with all MW parts. I'm about to get the Performance bearings package for the entire rear. I just need the shop to narrow the axle tubes, put new ends on it and get final measurements so I can get the new axles ordered. Previous axles were MW 40 spline with 11/16" rifle bore. New axles will be MW 40 spline with 1 1/16" rifle bore and 300M material. I'm also changing from 5:13 ratio to 5.86 ratio. Both the old and new ring gear are back-cut. The R&P will be coated (see last paragraph).
I'll take a measurement of torque to rotate the pinion before and after and post the results here. I'm not sure how or if I should measure torque at the axle? Don't expect this next week, this shop is slower than molasses! But we had a long talk yesterday and he's made a commitment to get the chassis & engine done by the end of this year. I'll believe it when I see it but I'm making a big push. I will push real hard to get the Dana up and ready to run. That also involves setting the engine / trans in the car with new motor plates to determine positioning of the Dana and axle size left & right. I'm not sure what MW's lead time is on these 300M axles. So just pushing for the rear-end to be completed will get the chassis well on the way to completion.

FYI - Same shop has had a hand in a customers vintage 4-cylinder road race car. After using a propriety coating on all bearings and bushings from front to rear (spindles, trans, rear), the car reduced lap times by 8 seconds. That's huge. He also believes that true ceramic bearings would be better yet.


If you are spending that much money, why didn't you just put a new 9" under the car with an alum center.

Jeff Lee 10-16-2011 03:46 PM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
A) I never see a Dana break & I see 9" break. I've been through 3 different gear sets & they always look like new.
B) Bearings are going to be the same one way or another.
C) I'm pretty sure the frictional loss is greater on a 9".
If I were into changing gears a lot, then a 9" would wipe out the other reasons.

Jeff Lee 10-16-2011 04:03 PM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
Oops

randy wilson 10-18-2011 08:14 AM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
OK, now that we established this thread, the reason I started it was because a very well known, and successful comp racer told me he spent $ 20,000 on ceramic and never gained a thing. And I know he was trying to help, not lead us astray. What say everyone now. He said don't waste ur time or money.

Pvt Parts 10-19-2011 08:40 PM

Re: ceramic bearings
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee (Post 288147)
A) I never see a Dana break & I see 9" break. I've been through 3 different gear sets & they always look like new.
B) Bearings are going to be the same one way or another.
C) I'm pretty sure the frictional loss is greater on a 9".
If I were into changing gears a lot, then a 9" would wipe out the other reasons.



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