Header building
 

How critical is it, for the tubes to be the same length when building headers?

Are there important dos and don'ts when building them?

Header builders seem to be a dying breed around Ohio, so we may have to try it ourselves.

Thanks,
Mike
3020 A/SA

Re: Header building
 

In a door car, ease of installation, spark plug access and ground clearance takes precedence over equal length.

Re: Header building
 

On a Stocker, it's very critical. Try to get them within 2". Also, get your primary tubes "phased" in the collectors correctly and get your "math" right what ever formula you use!

Re: Header building
 

Sean Graham -- Graham Motorsports is in Sunbury OH. Very nice guy and very talented.

Clark Doukas

Re: Header building
 

The OP has had multiple threads asking about header types and builders for 4 years now. He's had numerous replies during that time advising him who to go to including the best, Calvin Elston who now is no longer in business.

Re: Header building
 

Thank you Clark! He is close to home

Re: Header building
 

First of all, why must you get on other people's threads and come across as negative? How about being positive and helpful?

I didn't know it was against the rules to ask questions, some of us don't know it all. Each post was asking a different question.

I did contact Clavin and he wasn't taking on any more. He was a great to talk with. Even though my post says near Ohio, not 12 to 14 hours away.


Thanks,
Mike
3020 A/AS

Re: Header building
 

You try this guy.


https://www.headersbyben.com/

Re: Header building
 

I have not but I'll look into it. Thank you kindly for your help.

Re: Header building
 

I mentioned it to him, he is waiting on parts for his car so he hasn't raced all summer.

Re: Header building
 

Thank you!
Hopefully he has his car ready for St Louis. I've been in those shoes and they suck.
Thanks,
Mik

Re: Header building
 

I build my own headers; I use a program called pipemax to design them for size and length. the program also can be used to build step headers. To answer your question when building a set to fit in an engine compartment and maintain equal length is pretty hard. Getting access for plugs and starter is just as important. On a dyno not sure what the loss would be on different lengths, but I seldom see any factory-built headers that are even close. I am a big believer in step headers and have seen gains on the dyno.

Re: Header building
 

Ben Line did my Headers and he did a fantastic job! They fit awesome, tucked up tight, out of the way for easy transmission, clutch removal, O2's are easy to get at and in the correct location and they Work! Give Him a call.

Re: Header building
 

Kromer Kraft Headers

Re: Header building
 

Call Mike Schaefer at The Mod Shop - Lakeview, OH

He builds some awesome headers. He built the headers on Doug Duell's stocker and his SS challenger for reference.

937-935-9898

He has done a lot of work for me in the past. Great guy to work with.

Casey FJ

Re: Header building
 

Does equal length mean equal flow and pulse timing?

Seen a championship Pro Stock with unequal length primaries

Re: Header building
 

equal length in our cars, cars with the firewall in the stock location, stock frame rails, etc. means sacrificing fit, ease of installation, spark plug access, ground clearance and in some cars, having to remove and or cutting the inner fender wells all for nothing on the time slip.

Re: Header building
 

I just went through this in my Cavalier. I ended up with equal length and in firing order. There was no way I could get the length I thought it needed with the tight space. So I had him put the proper collector length collector and connect the flange.

I will say this. Equal length tubes with a LS firing order (SBC), makes a crazy looking header. Have pics if interested.

Re: Header building
 

Chad, do you and any pics of the final units you are willing to share? I am not following the firing order comment you made. Thanks

Re: Header building
 

https://scontent.fict1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...tA&oe=66B440B3

https://scontent.fict1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...wg&oe=66B4335F

Re: Header building
 

Try KromerKraft in Girard, OH,...a suburb of Youngstown. Kromer has been building headers since the early 1990's for all sorts of NHRA class racecars.

Re: Header building
 

There are many who will repeat this concept that headers don't mean anything on the time slip. It depends as always.

Had a decent set of headers we made then had a custom set made for the engine combo picked up several MPH and decent amount of ET back to back.

Friend of mine went from a set of box headers to burns stainless design and set of their collectors picked up good amount of ET and a few MPH.
They were told clocking the primary tubes was more important than equal length plus avoiding sharp/tight turns was also.



Depending on how far out to lunch your present set is you could pick up a lot!

Re: Header building
 

Not my words, YOURS! Further, the right size primary tubes is EVERYTHING and many have tubes that are too big for optimum performance.

Re: Header building
 

Just in case anybody is wondering why I don't post much anymore!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKKdTlvZ5kI&t=45s

Re: Header building
 

Bizaar....

Re: Header building
 

Billy, This forum will always be great as long as Ken is in charge. However with that being said, without you it will never be the same. Who's going to keep everyone in line?
You're kind of like the Sargent at Arms.

Re: Header building
 

Getting defensive????

Think we should call you ground strap you're always negative.... :D

The statement has been made to me by racers who are way more knowledgeable and talented in the shop and on track. When offering my experience they listen simply because there is also the theory behind the result. If all you have done is try box headers your experiences are limited extremely.


Your talking like the 90s here with the "bigger the tube the better". LOL!
That was disproven 20 years ago. Everyone knows this.


With all your criticism here of everyone how abut some theory behind the poorly presented comments that contribute nothing. You just shout this is how you do it "I know everything" nothing more no reasoning theory science or engineering. Many of us know "you've always been a trick of the week racer". Just like a blind squirrel.....


What is your theory on header design? Please expand professor..... LOL!

Re: Header building
 

everyone is more knowledgeable and talented than you!

Jere Stahl didn't know that 20 years ago. We had a 1 hour conversation one night about my car and he couldn't wrap his head around the fact that my 468 in my 3900 lb. Chevelle made the power it did and ran the ET/MPH it did with 1 3/4" primary tubes! :p

Re: Header building
 

Good looking headers, thanks Chad

Re: Header building
 

I will check with him.
Thanks,
Mike

Re: Header building
 

Those are BEAUTIFUL! That is what I want!

Re: Header building
 

well you've been asking here for 4 years, good to hear that NOW you know what you want. :D Now the question is did you save your pennies in that time to afford them.;)

Re: Header building
 

As you can see, I'm committed with the collector. We had to get creative and weld them on.

Re: Header building
 

I know what I want regarding looks and money is not the issue.

I had a set on order in 2020 from one of the best there is, then he decided to get out of the business for (very good) personal reasons. I was supposed to have a set built last winter 2023 by Elston and I received my car back from the chassis shop 6 months LATE getting a new cage in, by then he was closed.

The biggest thing is finding someone close to home. Unfortunately, I only have limited vacation days.......lol Also in the 5 years I've owned this car, I've been burnt on some of the supposed-to-be miracle parts, as I'm sure you've experienced.

So there are my excuses...lol

Re: Header building
 

fair enough and there are numerous chassis shops in your backyard that can build you headers.

Re: Header building
 

Do you live in Ohio or Indiana? KromerKraft is in Girard Ohio.

Re: Header building
 

I'm going to give him a call!

Re: Header building
 

There ya go Ground Strap always negative... LOL

Taking my statement out of context is funny as hell!
My question to you is "have you ever had an original idea".

My own header program believe it or not was engineered in collaboration with Jere Stahl establishing new design concepts contrary to current accepted.
Also received some advice from "Exhausted" which also showed and improvement when tested on the dyno.

Re: Header building
 

Hi Chad,
Very nice looking headers.

Do you know how they compare to what Larry says to use in PipeMax?

Stan

Re: Header building
 

I used PipeMax 4.0.. It wanted 27.86-30.36 length at 1.84/1.967 for a 2 step. It wanted a 15" OAL megaphone w/2.750choke and 3.50 out.

I put exactly what it said for a collector on it. But I could only get a 26" primary in the car.

Also, on both my children's right arms, it 100% NAILED HP. But it was off 5ft/lbs of torque. 100% the truth.