manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Racers, for those of you racing a manual trans.
I am considering building and racing in the Nostalgia Modified and Gassers association. This is a new program that is beginning in the North Texas service area. Other areas of the country run similar programs.

It is an index program with break out in place. The specific classes I am considering are C/G on 5.92 index or D/G on 6.09 index. It will be a relatively light weight, back half door car with a 408 LS engine so the performance will be easily attained.

My question, tell me about the clutch and transmission that will give good service life and will be relatively easy to maintain. As of now, to win the event would mean 6 or 7 passes for the day, including time trials.

NOTE: clutchless shifting is allowed.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Following.
I'm looking a the Street roadster classes.
I have a couple G Force 5 speeds I'm going to use.
I am interested in ideas about Clutches.
Larry I'm not sure about the L/S engine platform.
Better double check on that with Kevin Hall and Tony Smith
At one time they wanted me to use iron heads like a purist modified.
I know this is evolving some..

Come on Clutch guys. Input, please.
It will have to be "Easy to Maintain" if this cripple is going to do it.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Adger, I have already talked with Kevin and the LS engine is OK. He tells me any door car or pick up that is 1979 or older is OK. I like your roadster idea.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Adger, Kevin explained to me that they relaxed the engine requirements in an effort to make it more reasonable to build a car. They are allowing the index to be the governor.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Adger, we did not specifically talk about this, but I expect, since it is basically a no electronics class, the LS or any engine will need to be carb or mechanical injection with distributor or mag.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

I don't know the rules for the classes, but I'll make a assumption no electronics would be delay boxes,throttle stops etc. Not engine mgnt systems.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Larry the way the class is structured I think your assumption about FI and Electronic ignition would be correct. It would not be in the spirits of the old Modified production. I've got an old Accel BEI ignition and cable drive tach I'm going to use.
Larry, I've even got an old set of Lee Shepherd Iron V-6 heads. I might show up with a V-6.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Call Rob Youngblood at advanced clutches. He is the best in the business.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

G101a and a diaphragm clutch controlled by a 'tamer. Coyote Stock cars all use this setup and are running upper/mid 9's @ 140, 3000lbs with factory sealed 302cuin naturally aspirated crate engines. Crowd pleasing 7500rpm dead hook wheelie launches are the norm, broken cars are rare. If you like people taking pictures of your car in action, screaming wheels-up launches are the way to go.

Even organic discs have been known to last a full season in Coyote Stock. Very consistent as well, field is usually as tight as NHRA Pro Stock. Here's a snip from a Dragzine article featuring Coyote Stock champ Clair Stewert, note the second to last paragraph...

http://grannys.tripod.com/clairstewertdragzine.png

With the 'tamer in place, there's no more juggling counterweight and launch rpm as conditions change. Completely eliminates the centrifugal vs base balancing act, as it allows you to adjust the launch separately without affecting high gear clamp pressure. Far simpler way to tune a clutch, and you won't need help from an expert to dial it in.
...If the clutch slips too much or not enough going into high gear, you know you need to adjust the spring pressure.
...If the clutch slips too much or not enough during launch, you dial that in with the 'tamer from the driver's seat.

The ability to control throw-out bearing position during launch can be a game changer.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

A sintered iron setup will give long service life without having to constantly be under the car when setup correctly and last several seasons. A bellhousing that has a window to allow access for adjustments as needed, makes it faster and easier to work on. Rob Youngblood should be able to give some help on what he has to offer. I don’t have any experience with Cale’s Blackmagic clutches but they are popular too. Light base pressure is your friend and does not kill parts or your left leg!

For a trans you cannot go wrong with a G-Force.

Sean

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

I agree with Sean, I wouldn`t mess around with trying to make a non adjustable street clutch work on a drag car. In addition to my old stickshift Stocker Mustang, I have been racing my 78 Fairmont for over 35 years, the past 24 years with a stick. I ran Jerico DR4s most of that time, and have had a G Force G101A for the past 5 years. I have been using McLeod Soft Lok sintered iron clutches since 1998, and typically can go at least 2 full seasons (typically 75 to 100 low 10-high 9 second 1/4 mile passes per year). In those 24 years, I broke my Jerico 3 times,( 2 were about $300. for parts each time, once was much uglier), and I have yet to hurt the G101A. I do not have a data logger, and I have not had much need to play with counterweight, as my launch and shift RPMs are very close together, My Fairmonts Soft Lok is a 10" sintered iron disc with an aluminum flywheel, and I normally start with about 450 pounds of base pressure when new, and I am hardly "always messing with spring or counterweight adjustments ". I don`t run my clutch on the ragged edge, so I MAY adjust the spring tension 2 or 3 times a year (a 5 minute job), by 1/4 to 1/2 turn on each spring, and keep an eye on the freeplay. Other than that, it`s add some gas every 4 or 5 passes, check the tire pressures now and then, and if hot lapping, maybe charge the battery once or twice . Pretty low maintenance deal. Also, in the 24 years with the stick, I have never hurt the rearend yet,

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Rory and others, thank you for the good report and encouragement..

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

I do not think you could go wrong with a G Force G101A and a McLeod soft loc. I ran a jerico in my SS car. I broke a shift finger, reverse lever and finally all the teeth off of 3rd gear. The shift finger breakage I think they cured with a brace between 1-2 and 3-4. I added that. The reverse shift lever was alum. had one made from steel. 3rd. gear I was told because of 3rd. gear burnouts.
I had about 4 different clutches thru my car and the soft loc was very repeatable. The super lightweight stuff was a couple ticks faster but not as easy to work with when you are first learning as I was.
Get a bellhousing with a window for counterweight access, some type of floor removal for base adjust, a easy to adjust pedal stop, hole in bellhousing for air gap checking and a adjustable 2 step switch. Spend the time getting all that done nice and you will be good to go.
I switched to a auto. 2 years ago and hate it. Thought it would be "easier", far from it. Car lost 5 tenths and is no fun anymore.
Going back to a stick with a G101A with a soft loc and also have a black magic single 10".

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

One of the points of my post about using the 'tamer was that even an organic street clutch can last a full season and win a championship while using it. There's no problem with using a sintered iron disc which lasts quite a bit longer, but iron needs less static clamp pressure than what you would find in the typical aftermarket diaphragm pressure plate. For an iron disc, it's better to use a Long style PP with an appropriate range of adjustable static.

Quite a bit less expensive, easier to tune, with more performance potential vs a SoftLok.

Like I said before, if you like people taking pictures of your car in action, screaming wheels-up launches are the way to go. Sponsors like the attention as well. The more exciting the cars are to watch, the easier it will be to put paying customers in the grandstand seats. Much better path to improving payouts vs increasing your entry fees.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

I'm still fairly new to the stick world (at least with drag racing) but as others have said Rob Youngblood is the guy to go to for your clutch and you can't go wrong with a G-Force.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Is the Clutch Tamer legal in NHRA stock eliminator?

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

I can only say it has been thru the barn and won class @ Indy without getting flagged. I don't think the rule book addresses it specifically, but the clutch pedal is still released by your foot to launch and there are no electronics involved.

I know NHRA's national event prep guys like it, Ralph says- "all clutch cars should have a 'tamer because they don’t rip the **** out of the track!"

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

[IMG]clutch[/IMG]

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Really hard to argue with a basic Softlock and alum flywheel. It's more about properly tuning these type of generally available components than spending money on snake oil.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

I 60ft between a 1.26- 1.30 most of the time @ 3000 lbs. I also beat it up pretty good. This was my first rebuild in years.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Beating them up is what it's all about, I didn't buy these kinds of parts to keep them on the shelf.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Are you referring to the 'tamer as snake oil?

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

My opinion is ..... I have never been able to get a clutch tamer to close a storm door consistently or properly.... I don't believe I want it hooked to my clutch......

Mike Taylor 3601

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Lots of pictures like this of guys that use my storm door closers...

http://grannys.tripod.com/jacoblamb2.png

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Grant, Does he "bracket race" like we do here?

If not ...irrelevant ;-)

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

The class is heads-up, but...

http://grannys.tripod.com/jacoblamb3.jpg

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Here you go.... Lamb, 2019 ,Gateway

14 cars...4 rounds
.083, .068, .087, .078

I don't know about y'all but I couldn't get past the first round of NHRA Stock
with lights like that.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

...but the car/clutch is pretty consistent with decent efficiency. Not bad for a clutch using a storm door closer instead of counterweight...

......#1...........#2..........#3..........#4
...1.3079...1.2818...1.3036...1.3082
...4.0462...4.0577...4.0678...4.0782
...6.3877...6.3946...6.4013...6.4171
...104.70...104.75...104.94...104.58

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

A tip of the hat to all the replies. I enjoyed the reading and education. At this time, the class and organization I was considering is it's the infancy. I am not willing to invest $6,000.00 plus for trans and clutch and related items that may have a very limited application. I am going ahead with the build of my 75 Vette but initially it will be an automatic for foot brake no e racing. With an eye on the manual trans class in the future.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Larry Woodfin, I'm with you on the investment.
The rules makers are stuck on stick shift only. I even suggested a Bruno drive with a G force 5 speed. A sizeable investment for an index race.
I just happen to have a very handicapped left side from race car accident.
I do not have the ability to clutch or the physical abilities to do required clutch maintenance.
I have actually stepped up to sponsor the new Nostalgia Modified.
I wish them Luck with their events.
After I heal from the recent left foot repair I plan on having my Gen 3 V-6 SS/Modified program back in operation & being at some NHRA divisional events.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

Adger, I understand about the rules and understand their reason. They are in an attempt to make it look and sound different, otherwise, it is just another bracket race with old cars.

On the other side of the leaf, bracket racing or auto trans index racing is all I am willing to invest in. If develops into a thriving series with good attendance, well, it is a long way from that.

As you stated, I wish them all the good and hope it makes what they are expecting.

Re: manual trans and clutch quaetion
 

I know this is Hijacking the thread, But...I think the OP has his answer.
Has anyone used a 10,000 RPM brand multi disc metallic clutch with diaphragm? Looks like you shim the stand height to get it set up. (no instructions)
I have a new one that came to me as a spare when I bought all of a buddies racecar Estate.
Is it something usable or just old junk?