4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

all the great news about powerglide cars getting three speeds, it looks to me, now would be a good time to change the rule so 55-57 chevy superstock stick cars would be allowed four speeds to be used instead of three speeds.... , I have talked to others across the country that run these cars and we all agree.this will bring more parity with other combos, in these stick classes. any thoughts or comments would be appeciated,

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

What you really need is the four-speed hydromatic that was actually available in the Nomad cars (trucks), but outlawed by NHRA. This was what brought about the famed Jesel 3-speeds run by all the "Duffy's Speed Shop" guys.

No offense taken Tom

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Sounds good to me,but only if I can put a 401 CI engine in '77 Gremlin that only came with a 6 cylinder,because I'm tired of being chased all the time.
If you're combo came with a glide only,live wih it,a three speed only,live with it.
Where is it going to stop?I lost 1st round I need a second chance (level playing field) I want a do over.
Seems like every aspect of our lives is being taken over by the "level playing field-victim" crowd.
Flamo,flamo..........................
Ed F.
NHRA #1945
IHRA #14
T/SA

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Roger!!! Myron is talking about ,standard trasmissions not automatics! I agree with Myron completly on this matter.But thanks for your input.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

[QUOTE=Tom Dorsey;51098]Roger!!! Myron is talking about ,standard trasmissions not automatics! I agree with Myron completly on this matter.But thanks for your input. Rodger,have a great day Tom

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

why not just follow the rule book and give the 55-61 chevys a 6 speed... they came with a 3 speed overdrive (inside the trans case) that allows the car to be moved in 6 different gear ratios ????

new guys get to count overdrive why screw the old chevies ???

good lawyer can get one through tech id bet big bucks !!!

jack mccarthy

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Correct me if I am wrong as I thought the Hydro was only in the sedan delivery's

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

NHRA allowed the 4-speed HydraMatic in Chevy sedan deliveries and El Caminos from about 1964 until they pulled the plug on all the "Dual-Range" 4-speed HydraMatics somewhere arounf 1972 or '73....not sure of the exact dates.

Nomads were just fancy station wagons and had to run Powerglides, like a sedan.

How they ever got approved is not exactly known; I heard that some guy from California, who was a close friend of a Division Tech Director (perhaps, Div. VII), had a 348-powered Stocker that was an El Camino, and was licensed as a truck in California. He supposedly convinced this Division Tech guy that since it was licensed as a truck, it should be allowed to use a truck transmission. Chevy trucks at that time,didn't use Powerglides... they had 4-speed HydraMatics. I don't know how much of that story, if any, is true, so, please don't quote me. It was a l-o-n-g time ago...

This was during a period of time when torque converter science was in its infancy. It was very difficult, if not impossible, to get a decent hi-stall converter for a Powerglide transmission.

The NHRA rules at the time, allowed virtually any engine in the Blueprint Specs to run in virtually any body, so it was legal and feasible to run a 283 c.i.d., F.I. 283 horsepower motor in a '57 Chevy sedan delivery, for example, with a 4-speed HydraMatic tranny. These transmissions had a fluid coupling instead of a torque converter, and were very easy to modify for high stall speeds.

The news of this transmission, its superior performance, and its across-the-board legality in Chevy "trucks" (sedan deliveries and El Caminos, included), spread like wildfire, and soon, they were populating every class from about E/SA down to N/SA, whicjh was the bottom "automatic." class for V8's at the time (16 pounds per hp???)

At one point, they held virtually every record from E to N... with "host" vehicles ranging from '55 Chevy sedan deliveries with 4-bbl "Power Pack" 265s in N/SA (high 14's) up to '57 Chevy F-I- 283/283hp sedan deliveries, running mid- 13's in E/SA.

I remember a letter-to-the-editor of National DRAGSTER from the wife of the driver/builder of "BIG DADDY": (not Garlits), a '60 Buick convertible G/SA Stocker from Lafayette, Indiana (Russ Matthews) who announced that her elderly husband was giving up trying to compete with these "fantasy cars" that were never built by the factory. He'd been a national record holder for years with his 401/nailhead/Dynaflow Buick, but the sedan deliveries made his car uncompetitive. So, he was quitting. She just wanted everyone to know why.

I think that letter MAY have precipitated some action...

It wasn't too long after that, that NHRA bit the bullet and disallowed that "truck" transmission in sedan deliveries and El Caminos.

The reason they were disallowed is that NHRA finally (albeit, tacitly) admitted that the Chevy factory never put that transmission in passenger-car based vehicles. It was in pickups, panel trucks, and larger Chevy trucks, but NEVER in sedan deliveries (or, El Caminos.)

I built one of the first ones to hit the strip in 1965, and I remember pouring over Chevy parts books, trying to find motor (rear) mounts that would fit the engine/tranny and the sedan crossmember.

No go; they had mounts for Powerglides in sedans, and mounts for Hydros in Pickup trucks, but NOTHING for a Hydro-to-sedan cross-memeber (which is what the sedan delivery had... because it was, in essence, just a station wagon with 2 doors.)

So, like everyone else, I had to build my own... LOL!

With the advent of Marvin Ripes' (and, others') new hi-stall Powerglide converters, it soon became a moot point, anyway.

This whole deal was a major embarrassment for NHRA, and one that I'm not sure they'll ever live down. It's been 35 years since they pulled the plug on the hydros in the sedan deliveries, and people still talk about it...

You'd think they would have learned something about the bogus legalization of "never-never" combos...

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

This is the proposel that I sent, to the Tech. Dept. of NHRA! Gentelmen, I would like to suggest a "rule change" pertaining to the 55-57 Chevy Super Stock Stick Cars. The Change in which I am asking is the following. That you allow the handful of these cars to be allowed to run a Four Speed Transmission instead of a Three Speed Transmission. I feel that the 3 speed is at a disadvantage when trying to compete with other COMBOS with 4 Speeds.I have talked to others,(East Coast to the West Coast) and we are all in agreement,that if the rule could be changed, this would make these cars more competitive.I think,that a lot of people would like to see these cars in competition.For a long time to come. I remember a few years back ESPN2 showed a 55 Super Stocker(Gary Howe)as a feature at a National Race. Don't remember which one! Looks like ESPN2 thought these cars have eye appeal as well. I have noticed the 2008 rule change, that the THREE SPEED Automatic is allowed to be used over the 2 Speeds.
I have a 56 150 Sedan im considering to build for N,M Stick Class.I would be more comfortable about doing this , knowing that I would be to compete with a 4 Speed. Thanks for your time and consideration Tom Dorsey Member #406383

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Your car didn't come with a 4 speed.Why should you be allowed to put one in?Don't like the glide issue?Spend some energy letting NHRA know your feelings,instead of adding to the cluster &?#* that they've created already.

Ed F.
NHRA #1945
IHRA #14
T/SA
I want my 401
WAAAAAAAAAAA

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Why don't you guys write a letter that says that 55-56 Chevrolet Superstockers should be able to run a 150 horsepower Nitrous kit?
Blower?


I would think that would help a little more than an extra gear.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

"I remember a letter-to-the-editor of National DRAGSTER from the wife of the driver/builder of "BIG DADDY": (not Garlits), a '60 Buick convertible G/SA Stocker from Lafayette, Indiana (Russ Matthews) who announced that her elderly husband was giving up trying to compete with these "fantasy cars" that were never built by the factory. He'd been a national record holder for years with his 401/nailhead/Dynaflow Buick, but the sedan deliveries made his car uncompetitive. So, he was quitting. She just wanted everyone to know "


Bill,
Looks like Big Daddy missed the boat back then .GM already had an early TH 400 that would bolt right up to the Buick Nailhead motor. All he had to do was call 1 800 - CRY- NHRA and ask for it. You know, in the interest of fairness.
Oh wait, that line wasn't in use back then . Well, maybe Farmer would have changed it for him . What do you think ,guys?

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Farmer's comment to such a request wouldn't be anything printable here (this is a "family" forum.)

But, that was then; this is now...

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

I'm Gonna send this as well LOL




This is the proposel that I sent, to the Tech. Dept. of NHRA! Gentelmen, I would like to suggest a "rule change" pertaining to the 64~73 Ford Super Stock Stick Cars. The Change in which I am asking is the following. That you allow the handful of these cars to be allowed to run a Five Speed Transmission instead of a Four Speed Transmission. I feel that the 4 speed is at a disadvantage when trying to compete with other COMBOS with 5 Speeds.I have talked to others,(East Coast to the West Coast) and we are all in agreement,that if the rule could be changed, this would make these cars more competitive.I think,that a lot of people would like to see these cars in competition.For a long time to come. I remember a few years back ESPN2 showed a 69 Super Stocker(Red LeBlanc)as a feature at a National Race. Don't remember which one! Looks like ESPN2 thought these cars have eye appeal as well. I have noticed the 2008 rule change, that the THREE SPEED Automatic is allowed to be used over the 2 Speeds.
I have a 64 Sedan im considering to build for L,M Stick Class.I would be more comfortable about doing this , knowing that I would be to compete with a 5 Speed. Thanks for your time and consideration,
Mark Tallent 7724 SS/L


WOW Where does this come from?

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

In 2007, I sent a letter to tech asking that corporate automatic transmissions be allowed in cars that specify a manual transmission; Viper, ZO6, Z28 and others in that catagory in Super Stock. As noted by this esteemed board or onlookers, only the powergilde got some change. I thought the 4 speed in the 55/56 was also in front of the committee, but as noted in earlier posts, I have been wrong before. Anyone have any idea who asked for the help on the glides? Want to bet they are from the West Coast!! But I do understand that my request was not granted, however, a short reply would have been appreciated. Years ago we had one of them 4 speed autos. My children are all younger that that trans. How about the 4 speed Torqueflite that came in the 75-78 D500-D800 Dodge. I really don't know if even Pro Trans could put 904 guts in that thing. I'm gettin too old for this.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

i still assure you they came with a trans that according to rules will allow a six speed to be used.
i promise i have one, self contained trans that will move the car forward in six different ratios...offered in1955-1961 chevys.

all is needed is someone to build one and a lawyer to tech it in

jack mccarthy

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Mark I think the 16 HP reduction on the 352 FE is a better gift than a Five Speed. Still have not seen this combo on the track since the early eighties

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

I believe that Myron and others that run this combination of a 3spd, under the current updated rules, should be allowed to run a 4spd trans. If I understand this right NHRA said that they have received letters requesting this for some time and I was told by NHRA that they observed a difference between a powerglide car and a turbo car in the same class!!! DUH... My father and I run the 3spd 56 combination and we believe that IF NHRA does continue to go through with this rulling that we to deserve the same "level playing field", that other combinations currently run in the lower classes. I would be completely happy with NHRA leaving everything as it was supposed to be, the correct transmission for the combination claimed. Yes, I do aggree that if this continues then it will continue to dissolve the basis of S/SS racing. It goes to show that all of the recent rule changes have done nothing but increase the cost of being competative and lower NHRA's responsibility to enforce rules. Choose ypur combination and let the HP's eventually work its way out.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Tony, there is a 63 352 running L & M in Div 1

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Here are some thoughts on the Powerglide issue...

As I understand it, if a car has a three speed automatic available as an option "from the factory,," it is legal to run a different "more mechanically advantageous" transmission with the same number of forward gear ratios as long as it will bolt up with no adapters, and is in the same "corporate family."

An example of that would be a smaller, lighter, 904 T-Flite replacng the O.E.M. 727 in a 1970 340 Duster.
Another would be a smaller, lighter, Ford C-4 replacing an O.E.M. C-6 in a 352 Ford (nevermind about the bell housing.)

In 1957, as most of you are aware, Chevrolet engineering introduced a new transmission that was a 3-speed automatic called Turboglide that used a pair of planetary gearsets that approximated first and second gear ratios in the later Turbo-Hydramatics... something like 2.5:1 and 1.5:1. These planetary gearsets were attached to individual torque converter elements that were a part of the main converter, but instead of being held for reaction by bands, or clutches, they were on sprags. This allowed them to overrun when they got to their rpm limit, thereby "shifting" into the next higher gear without actually applying or releasing any clutch/band apparatus.

For a more complete explanation of the mechancs of this operation, there's a well-written dissertation on the engineering that went into this short-lived aluminum transmission in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboglide by someone who has a good grasp of the operation of this somewhat revolutionary torque converter automatic.

Since it is a little different in operation from other 3-speed automatics, it never caught on with the hard-core Stock and Super Stock racers, but there wouldn't seem to be any legitimate reason why it couldn't be used as a stepping-stone to allow it to be replaced by a different 3-speed automatic in say, a 1961, 245 HP 283 car running an automatic transmission class in Stock or Super Stock.

This might alleviate some the discomfort and wrenching of hands that seems to accompany the conception that the racers who have heretofore been limited to a 2-speed automatic are being "given something" by NHRA when allowed to use a 3-speed.automatic. Replacing a Turboglide with a Metric 200 is simply trading one 3-speed automatic for another, something that is the norm for most Ford and Mopar racers, already.

Disassemble a Turboglide, and you'll find the same sort of planetary gearsets (approximately 2.5:1 for first, and 1.5:1 for second) that exist in other 3-speed automatics. But, instead of clutch packs, and bands, you'll find sprags to deliver the power, or hold the elements of the planetaries in place for reaction.

The fact that there's no neck-snapping "tire squeal" wihen going from one ratio to another doesn't mean it's not happeneing;.. it is... I think they had reliability issues for awhile (I seem to remeber them earning the moniker "TroubleGlide",) and I believe that 1961 was the last year they were offered.

Food for thought on a rainy day...

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Bill, A '63 Ford 352 is a two barrel carb engine. Are you sure that is what they are running?

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Good post Bill. Back in the day I drove a couple of Turdo-glides. A '59 El Camino 280/348 was one and as I recall, you couldn't even percieve when the gear change occurred. Kinda like stepping in wet cement when you mashed the gas too. And as Dwight mentioned, those trannys had the infamous 'GR' on the shift quadrant. When you pulled it into 'GR' the pitch of the engine changed a little, but I never felt any deceleration. I always thought they were single speed transmissions! Maybe it was just that particular car. Back then, no self-respecting hot rodder drove a slushbox anyway. Well, maybe the early Torque-flites and Hydro's.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Ken,
You don't "feel" the gear changes in a Turbogglide, but they are there.

That Wikipedia site explains it a lot better than I can, but the explanation that I have heard that makes the most sense is that the first, second and third (1:1) geared elements in the converter are ALL pulling as you leave from a dead stop. But, the one that's really MOVING the vehicle is the one with the "longest lever," the 1st gear element with its 2.5:1 gearng. When the vehicle speed reaches the point where it can no longer contribute (because of the rpm) the 2nd-gear (1.5:1) element, which has been pulling all along, continues to accelerate the vehicle more rapidly than the high gear (1:1) element can, but at some point, it, too, runs out of rpm and it "overruns" on its sprag, and is just along for the ride, and the 1:1 high gear element continues to pull, but with no gear reduction... you're in high gear, now.

The rpms stay pretty constant until the 2nd gear element starts to overrun; then, you're in "high gear" and as the vehicle accelerates, rpms will increase in a linear manner, since it's a 1:1 ratio, now.

Clear as mud??? Like I said, the Wikipedia explanation is much better than mine...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboglide

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

I think that the 63 Ford in Div 1 is a K or L stick 390 ci 300/280 hp stocker

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

The picture is blurring...... Reality cars produced versus expensive "sorta stockers" Wouldnt it be just easier to fast forward to where the plan is going instead of mind irritating one at a time what seem to be irrational changes? Maybe there is no "plan" to recreate S and SS as generic "sorta stockers" but it seems to be going that way.
Paper cars, sorta factored running with real cars tightly factored by the old days methods and now the new method which choses to factor based on body type, trans used, al***ude, ?
I think some people would rather see a spec motor,spec trans,spec chassis with a 10 year guarntee of no changes than this costly continual gradual move that direction. Just think thats SS/AH already. Its getting bigger all the time. Couldnt others be allowed this courtesy who dont chose to run Hemi or cant afford them today?

Better Disclaim this one.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Dick,

That suggestion seems to be a mirror of the NASCAR logic that led to the mandated '"Car of Tomorrow." (I just wish they had offed the Ricer Wing. Something about that irritates me.) But then, would NHRA feel comfortable ins***uting a policy that was initially concocted by NASCAR?

c

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Chuck, Maybe its the fact most racers know how it was intended when S and SS started. Most are just too stuborn to admit the 100s of motors and 100s of combination is out of NHRAs control. Not handled by current enough processes to factor, update parts and index all at one time. every new year brings a new group of headache motors not one.
My main feeling has always been the pain every year one at a time for each and every racer watching it happen is FAR greater than a one time declaration that would put us to the final product. Generic classes. Modified eliminator with spec carbs and lb per cubic inch not fake hp ratings which take forever to correct.
AH is there but VERY EXPENSIVE. How about the llittle guys. Do we want to keep gouging them in the pocket every year in the name of "fairness" 4 speed s in 55, 3 speed automatics, Aluminum heads for one brand this year. ANy size injectors.
Step back and watch what works...AH. No mystery factoring on another motor. They are all the same. As much as I know all brands would make a better show I recognize under current methods by the organization it can never work withing the NHRA or IHRA methods. It is too complex for their methods to handle today.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Dick,

Can't say that I disagree. (How'd you like the way the Forum software edited the word "ins***uting?" I didn't type it that way.) Anyway, our form of racing presents an interesting conundrum to rules makers and enforcers. It's the variety of classes and cars that have made it great for everyone for years and ultimately caused the explosion of participation over the last fifteen years. At the same time, the proliferation of participation and the inclination of racers to seek every advantage in an extremely compe***ive arena has created a need for highly-trained and perceptive enforcers. Those guys are rare and are rarer still if they are willing to work for minimal compensation under horrendous conditions. Compare the costs incurred by NASCAR to maintain their technical services division to that of NHRA. I don't have the numbers but I suspect that there is a significant disparity between the two.

Is it out of control? I'd say "complicated and evolving" might be more accurate. Is it unworkable? Perhaps it's not worth the effort but, in my opinion, to replace it with a "spec system" in the sense that I understand that term would probably drive out the little guys within a couple of years. Money would trump ingenuity. A good example of what happens to Super Stockers over time when you homogenize the rules and requirements and then let money drive a system of heads-up racing is called Pro Stock. Homogenization of the rules is a slippery slope. Once you start, the end is predictable. What makes Stock and Super Stock great is the variety of people and combinations. The fact that Billy Nees can whip up on Bobby DeArmond or vice-versa is why I get up and go to the shop every day. I really look forward to seeing the combinations that come rolling out of Mark Yacavone's and Neil Smedley's shops.

Does the system need some refinement? In my opinion, there are some rough spots. Is it worth trashing what we have just to clean up the rough spots? Once again, in my opinion, as long as the participation is at current levels and new blood keeps flowing in to fill the holes left by those of us who are gathering at the "Rainbow Bridge," it's worth working to save. A few soft horsepower ratings don't ruin the day for me. A few "interesting" combinations are just that, interesting. A few imaginative additions to the parts list don't spell the end of relevance to what I've been doing for longer than the guy in the other lane has been out of diapers. I remember the same things going on in 1964 and we survived it. Heads up racing is fun but it is not the way to keep the entry lists full.

Happy Holidays,

c

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

You are right Tony, it's a 390

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Mr. Norton
I am glad to read that I am not the only person that thought the wing on the car of tomorrow is something seen on ricer cars all the time here in the Southwest. Could it be those wings are functional on the ricemobiles and they were ahead of their time with that design? Have a great Holiday and hope to see you this spring.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Its been awhile since I have responded to a post but I would like to congradulate Bill Dedman on his info relating to the 4-speed hydro's in the "OLD DAZE" and the TurboGlide info. He is right on the money. His memory is better than mine on certain nostalgia stories. The name of the racer who he could not remember who ran that El Camino was RONNIE BROADHEAD from Calif. Ronnie later ran a '60 Pontiac 389 SD 4-speed Cat. in what was then C/S and held the NHRA record.for a time. He was good friends with Butch Leal in the day and shared driving the Cat. from time to time and must have had contacts at NHRA and somehow had the 4-speed Hydo OK'ed for the "TRUCK". Maybe GM wrote him a letter in those days....LOL. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Thanks a lot for the validating response, X-Techman. I'm an X-Techman, myself, or I probably couldn't remember half the arcane stuff I do remember.

I remember Ronnie Broadhead's Pontiac very well (Porterville, CA?), but I had no memory of him being associated with "THE" El Camino that started it all insofar as 4-speed hydro's behind Chevys in Stock.
The first time I became aware of a Chevy sedan delivery with a hydro was while reading the national records in National DRAGSTER in late '64 or early '65, and the e.t. record was held by a team from Washington state; "Anglin/Clark, and VanDill." I think it was 14.75. The MPH record was held by Marv "POWERGLIDE" Ripes at something like 94 and change (could be wrong about that.) Those were both 220hp "Power Pack" engine cars.

The whole point of my post, however, was lost in the fact that I hi-jacked a thread about manual transmission Chevys, and I guess I got what I deserved, for that.

My point was that NHRA has never apparently, accepted the fact that all '57-thru-'61 Chevy V8s (well, maybe not the 409's) had a 3-speed automatic available as an option (Turboglide), and as a result, have only allowed Powerglide (2-speed) automatics in those cars. since nobody ever figured out how to make a Turboglide work and live in a drag racing environment.

A few years back, the rules were relaxed in order to allow Mopars that came with 727's to run 904's, and Fords that came with C-6's to run C4's IF THEY WOULD BOLT UP.

Well, the rulebook says the same number of forward speeds must be maintained, and Turboglides ARE 3-speed transmissions, so what's to keep a guy with a '61 Chevy V8 from trading his Turboglide for a Metric 200, if a guy with a 427/425hp Camaro running a TH400 can trade IT for a Metric 200?

I think NHRA needs to take a Turboglide apart and take a good long look at the two (2.5:1 low- and 1.5:1 second-speed planetaries) inside and revise their thinking, if they ever thought this WASN'T a 3-speed automatic.

BTW, I have no dog in this hunt... Never owned a Powerglide car. I don't even KNOW anybody who owns one... but I recognize a raw deal when I see one.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Wasnt Ronnie Broadhead a Winternationals Eliminator Champion with that Pontiac?

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

My memory is not THAT good, but I do remember reading about him (Ronnie Broadhead) winning lots of races. Maybe the X-TechMan, Tony Janes, or Chuck Norton will have an answer for us.

Pontiacs were very much in the limelight back then (mid-'60s.) I remember an E/SA '58 (Lowe and Easley), and a '60 (wagon?) driven by Graham Douglas, both of California, that were usually around in the final rounds back then... Another guy who was from Northen California, named Robert Chiesa had a very fast '58 and may have won Pomona a time or two. I think he called it "the Super Chief."
Most of those '57-'64 Pontiacs had Strato-Flight (dual-coupling) hydros; They were the outgrowth of the Dual-Range Hydramatics that were in a lot of the Chevy sedan deliveries during their "reign-of-terror" (1964-'72.)

But Ronnie Broadhead was a standout with a 4-speed.

Sorry I can't help on the Pomona deal; I've slept since then.... LOL!

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

I don't recall Ronnie Broadhead winning an eliminator bracket at Pomona but he was the record holder in C/S with the Pontiac for quite a while in the early-to-mid-60s. I also remember him in a newer mid-sized Olds wagon a few years later. Ronnie was from Porterville, CA and that would have made him practically a neighbor of Butch Leal and the Shahans. Famoso (Bakersfield) would have been one of the local tracks for him.

Graham Douglas won stock at the Winternationals once in about 1966 after the controversial events of 1965. Jay Hamilton and Ramon Lowe were around when I started going to the races with Ron Mandella and Dave Kempton in 1963 and they continued to race up to near the end of Junior Stock. The Hudsons prepped by Ike Smith, Keith Berg's Olds, Wiley Cossey, Elwin Westbrook, Jack Davis, and a few others were the most commonly seen stockers around Pomona.

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Hi Chuck
I am wondering if the 60 Wagon Graham raced was a N/SA car with a 389 tri-power engine. If so the guy I drove the O/S 61 Pontiac for in 70 and 71 bought the wagon. It was orange with a white top. Car ran great but that damned slim jim trans had a long drawn out high gear shift. I drove his 61 389-235 HP car. Had a ball those two years as a kid. I sold RV-455 BlackStreak Remover to a guy in Ind. and would like to still promote it on the west coast as he made me the dist. out here. You coming to Phoenix for the national Event? Would like to shake your hand and say hello. You racing or still working for someone?

Merry Xmas

Mike Randall

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Tony Janes will have a better recollection of what Douglas's car looked like than I. Seems as if it had a fairly non-descript paint job, at least the first year they ran it.

c

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Hi....Its me again. No.....Ronnie Broadhead never won a major eliminator ***le. He was the one that started the ball rolling about the hydro's in the "TRUCKS" a.ka. El Camino's in around the eary '60's. Not sure of the exact year. Grahm Douglas Pontiac wagon was a bronze? orange-ish?(Gold?) and white two tone color and he won the winternats using a 318 HP Tri-Power version of the standard 389 (Non-SD). Grahm also beat BIG DADDY Russ Mathews for class that year in what was G/SA. Bill is much better versed along with Chuck than Iam on the west coast cars but those deals are still in my old memory cells. Sorry about hi-jacking the thread also but the old fart came out of me there for a moment. Just to throw some "GAS" on the fire about the subject of 4-speeds in 55-57 Chebbie's we all know that the 55-56 never had it. The '57 Corvette got the 4-speed around Jan or Feb. of 1957. Later when BW-T10 production caught up how many know that when some one ordered a 283/283 HP FI passenger car it was assembly line produced with a 3-speed trans (on the colum) but came with a 4-speed trans and shifter installed in the trunk! Yep....just like the later Z-28s that were ordered with the X-ram intake's and headers. Parts came in the TRUNK. I was 12 or 13 when my uncle got delivery of his .57 FI 150 sedan and the BW-T10 was in a crate right there in the trunk but not for long. It was installed the same day he brought it home and I helped or at least I handed him some wrenches.....lol.. Not assembly line produced like the Corvette but along the same way the early SD Pontiacs came in 60-61. Over the counter so to speak. Have a wonderful holiday everyone. Terry Bell

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Terry's memory of the Graham Douglas 60 Pontiac Wagon is correct

Re: 4 speeds for 55-56 chevrolet superstockers
 

Mike,
Thanks to you and everybody else for all the good info about the "Pontiaction" (with apologies to Jerry Stealy) that was going on on the West Coast back in the mid-'60s.

I appreciate the nice comments from the X-TechMan about my so-called "expertise" RE the West Coast cars, but I really know VERY LITTLE compared to Chuck Norton and Tony Janes, who were actually there and "lived it".... I never even set foot in California until 1980, and as you know, Jr. Stock action was L-O-N-G G-O-N-E, way before then. Everything I know about that era I read in a magazine, Nat'l Dragster, or Drag News, at the time.

One thing I did manage to remember (can't remember much, at 69...) is that the "Slim Jim" was introduced in the '61 model year cars, and was a 3-speed automatic... probably the worst one ever put in a car... had horrible ratios, and a strictly mechanical 2nd-gear (no fluid coupling in the powertrain circuit in that gear) so that when you shifted into 2nd, you lost ALL the rpm possible... and the 1st-to-2nd ratio change was just traumatic.

I had a drag racing buddy who bought a new '61 Pontiac with one of those transmissions and asked him how it ran, and he said, "Like it's missing a gear!"

The "Strato-Flight" 4-speed, dual-coupling transmission it replaced, was an outgrowth of the Dual Range Hydros, but in an effort to make them shift smoooooooth, they replaced the front clutch-pack / band arrangement with a sprag and a small-diameter fluid coupling (no kidding!!!). Shifting into 2nd and 4th gear was accomplished by filling the front coupling with fluid, which took about a full second, and the engine sounded like a sick cow.while this was going on, but they didn't run that bad... (their ratios were an improvement over the prior "Dual Range" units.) Oldsmobile called 'em "Jetaway" but, it was the same transmission as the one in the Pontiac

Oh yes... the "Slim-Jim" ALSO got into top gear by virtue of filling a small, secondary fluid coupling, but by that time, you were so far behind, you didn't care.... :(

More useless trivia from the '60s....

Thanks again for all the GOOD information!!!