REM and Surface Treatments
 

Looking at a new set new of gears.
Considering having them Rem and MicroBlue treatment

There is Cryo'ing gears for more strength.
Does that work with axles?
What is the over all benefit..?

If you get all this treatment was considering using less gear ratio.

D

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

These are things to do only when you have exhausted every other idea of ways to go fast. Total waste of money on an application like you are considering. I would bet whatever amount of money you care to wager that you would see absolutely no difference in ET.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Contact Tom Watt at Tom's Differentials
http://tomsdifferentials.com/

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

I just finished installing a set of 9” REM polished Gleason gears.I don’t think the REM polish will help with performance as much as wear reduction.I also micro blued all the bearings.It certainly helped the rotating torque, but again I doubt I’ll see any performance advantage.The micro blue stuff will most likely help in reducing wear and oil temps depending on the parts that are coated.I wouldn’t change gear ratio because of the polish or coatings.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Not sure I follow you?

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

There is a member on this board can't recall his name,believe he ran a black 64? BB Mopar. He used to coat/treat RP gears,the cost was very reasonable with good results in terms of gear life and performance gains.He may have sold the company a few years back...gsa612

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Jim Bailey is his name, Top fuel was his game.....He did sell the business years ago and moved to FLORIDA .
..

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

I know a racer in colorado that would drain the gear oil out of his rear end when he was trying to set national record. stick car.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

I installed cryo gears in a 4200 lb wagon, 5:38, after 120 passes they still looked new, 1 qt, synthetic lube.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

WOW looked up Tom's Differentials
He rebuilt my 12 Bolt differential decades ago.

Tom Watt passed away

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/lege...t-passes-away/

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

REM finishing your gears does help reduce friction between the gear mesh. Getting your gears down 4 Ra surface finish still enables the teeth to still have enough roughness to hold an oil film. Based on what I could learn from the Microblue website, the surface coat is to encourage cover and retention properties of the oil but won't change the surface hardness. My first guess is that you would then be able to run a lighter weight oil in the diff, and thus be able to reduce the windage and churning losses associated with gears going through and slinging oil. Like any of these kinds of changes, the percentage gain is minimal, but I can not see it making the car slower. As another data point, Nascar ring and pinions are DLC coated these days and that combined with improved tooth geometry I am told yields 1-2 mph in an A to B comparison test on a Super Speedway depending on the ratio used. There are 42 different ratios for nascars...

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Don't want to name names as I don't want to get them in trouble but I was told by one of the gear suppliers that it is a waste of time, that the gear basically polish themselves over a period of time. In that instance, I was ordering gears and was requesting the added surface treatment, why would he turn down the extra money if he thought it was worth it?

Jim Caughlin
SS6019

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Years ago, when "Pro Gear" sets were becoming no longer available for certain applications, I started researching metal treatments to prolong gear life in my mopar. My search led me to Cryo and Rem finishing, or a combo of both. It didn't take long to realize, like a lot of stuff, that who was doing it and how it was being done mattered. I bought my own equipment so that I could control the processes in my shop. I'm not sure I saw any real E.T. improvement, but …( I did like thinking that I did )... . What I did see, and a testament to the treatment was triple the gear life in my 8 3/4 mopar gears. I went from breaking ring and pinions at around 40 runs, to taking them out, (for no real reason}, selling them used at 120. I'd say this is also why someone who sells gears, or doesn't do the process in house might not recommend it... just sayin ! Also, I think you'd look pretty hard to find a Pro Stock team, or a Nascar team that doesn't do every one of their rears.( check with Tommy Lee ) - Good enough for me.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Do you Cryo first then REM?

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

No REM here, just cryo, as stated by others, big increase in longevity.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

We always Cryo'd before Rem..... Also, it's not recommended to Cryo used parts.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Too much Cryo can make parts brittle!

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

That's a pretty broad statement Ralph …. Much better stated as cryo done incorrectly can make your part brittle. You could program your machine to slowly lower the part to Cryo temps ( -300 degrees ) say over 48hrs. Once the part has reached the "soak" cycle say -310 degrees, It can stay there as long as you wanna spend money on Nitrogen to keep it there. Which would be a waste of time and money. The key is to not "shock" the part by cooling it too quickly, and to not warm it back to room temp too quickly. The program we used for a ring and pinion was 8 hour descend, 8 hour soak, 8 hours back to ambient, follow by a 2 hour "normalizing" where the parts are warmed to +200 degrees for an hour, then allowed to cool to room temp all by them self. Good Cryo machines can do all these steps without ever opening the machine once a run begins. There will be little, if any, effect on the parts heat treatment. Additionally, the Timed Steps of the run are based on the total weight of the parts in the machine... If you really want to "see" cyro in action, treat your Drill Bits, Mills, and Lathe Tooling... Now you know the rest of the story. ... Hopefully, you're now armed with enough info to ask the correct questions at your Cryo shop of choice. If they're skipping any of these steps, beware of any BS that will follow in their excuses and explanations of how they do it !

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Good information. I have always done the valves on my Hemi and also the last set of Pro Gears. Good so far 👍

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Valve springs on BBC. Lasted 3 times longer

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Jim,

Do you treat different types of parts to different process times? Ring & pinion, valves, and valve springs have all been mentioned. I would imagine that some stick shift racers treat transmission gears. Interested in your comments. Trying to learn more about this process.

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Would Cryo work with axles?
D

Re: REM and Surface Treatments
 

Cryo works with just about any material …. It's just that some materials respond / improve more than others to the process. Do a little research and you'll find that many of your parts are already done by the manufactures. I'd bet that most all after market standard trannys come with cryo'd and rem finished gears an shafts, along with many of the crankshaft companies....Basically your only limit is what size part will fit in the machine.