Leaving before Tree question
 

Hopefully, someone can shed some light on this question since I want to make sure my Series is on the same page of rules as NHRA. At the first race of the season for the .90 series, a driver had the earned bye-run in the 2nd round, he put both bulbs on, put it on the wood but, had it in high heat so he rolled the beams before the tree was ever activated. To me and the track officials this was always considered a DQ because they got no time and left before the tree was activated. The past weekend at Epping I saw the same thing happen in first round of SG but, the driver just got NT on the sheet and was allowed to move onto Round 2 and actually won that next round. I’m not pointing fingers but, just trying to get clarification as to what the rule is Incase this happens again. I know it might be a rare occurrence but, trying to prevent a misjudgment or someone being DQed when they shouldn’t be.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Rob, Technically ,the racer is supposed to stage both lights and wait for the green.
However , I've seen what occurred with Larry's run at Eppping several times in the past .Most times it happens because the starter is late activating the tree on the single and the racer is on the converter longer than usual and just lets go.
Unfortunately, the starter has no way of knowing if the racer is just taking the green or going to make a pass.
In larrys case,he told me the air gap closed up on the clutch and drug him thru the lights.
It's happened to me in the past and I have been both tossed out and given the run . It's the starters discretion.
As far as our series goes , I see no reason why the racer cant just turn on the lights and back up.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Thanks Tom,
Just trying to get clarification on the rule. You know well that the .90 series championships usually go down to the last race of the year and I hate to see someone lose a race because they got DQed a round and that was the deciding factor. I emailed Dave but, still haven’t got a response. Jun, DJ and myself all thought the rule was a DQ so that’s what we went with. I mean George admitted he messed up and had it in high gear but, maybe it should be asked in the lanes on a bye if they are taking the tree or running it out. I know when I can I ask the Racer what the plann of attack is.

See you tonight,
Rob

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Been there and done that and was NOT DQ'ed and should not have been....Lucas Oil Series race and I won the race...I flinched on the semi bye.....Tree activated and I was way red.....NOT LBTA though....

Stage under your own power....redlight or LBTA or suppose your trans brake wire falls off and car goes thru......You're not DQ'ed and get the round win and an opportunity to fix it and move on....

Cant cross center line or outer boundary.....

I Don't think you should have DQ'ed the racer on that bye.....

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

If driver left before starter activated tree he is out. The track is considered unsafe until starter gives the ok by activating tree. Time slip will show driver left before activation.
If starter does activate tree and you go way red and get a ticket stating starter activated tree and you left after that but before green your ok for next round.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

That makes sense Jeff but it should be clearly known by racers and officials if that's the case.....

If it is true than anyone who elects to make a bye run, runs the risk of being DQ'ed if they LBTA.......and I would stage and never go to WOT on a trans brake.....

It's always going to be up to the race director.....but should be clear....

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

It took me a minute to figure out LBTA.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

LBTA is what's on the et slip....I didn't make it up....LOL

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Isn’t auto start activated once the bottom stage bulb comes on??

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Watching D3TV and the S/C semis...

One driver broke and was pushed back
Other driver gets a broke bye.....Stages and tree seemed to take forever to go green. Driver lets go and the announcer goes silent...

Screen shows a -.368 redlight with no incrementals and no times. Does not show LBTA.....
Driver gets the win....moves to the final...vs Bogacki....

Other categories had some byes in late rounds and most just took the tree and backed out....

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Years ago at the Englishtown Nationals a Super Stock racer rolled the beams on a bye run and was DQ’ed. He didn’t come back for the next Rd.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

It's interesting to me that I come across this topic now. This is something I have never been clear on. Just this past weekend at the Sonoma Div race, I had the bye in the super gas semi's. Instead of taking the chance, and not having a clear understanding of the rule, I staged the car, watched the tree drop, then got on the chip and let go. I was 1.150 on the tree. I wasn't willing to take any chances. I've been doing this a long time, and feel kind of dumb for not having a clear understanding of the rule.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Mike,
First off congrats on the win at Sonoma. Awesome car, might rank pretty close to Justin Lopes car as one of my favorites out there.
That's my deal, not trying to get anyone in trouble or point fingers at anyone just wanted an answer as to what is right and wrong. I mean right now the guy that got DQ'ed at the race sits #2 in points for my series only 1 round out from first. We still have 4 races to go and a lot of racing left to do so anything could change but, would hate to see a championship get decided like that. As you can see from the posts here, it's pretty split, some say he's good, others say its a DQ. Just would be nice to have a clear cut answer so when 2020 comes around and the rules are set for the series we can implement that and were all on the same page.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Why don’t you ask Dave ley?

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

I did and he said it’s up to the starter or if they had a timing issue that is why they were let back in. Heck a guy at MIR this weekend had a bye run, never went forward, went backwards (cut a .000 light) and was in next round...lol

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Here is my opinion (and you know what they say about opinions), on a bye run a LBTA should be treated no different than a red light. The only difference is that on a bye run red light, you won't see it on the tree if the tree is set properly. Having the bye run means that you have "won" or automatically advanced into the next round, UNLESS you cross the center line or outer boundaries or crash. Again, that's just my opinion.
Advancement or DQ would be fine as long as that rule is known by everyone before hand.
If you are ever in that situation and want to make a full run or hit the tree and are not sure of the rule, just put 1 or 2 seconds more in the delay box and go for it.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

This is from the 2019 NHRA Rulebook.

SINGLE RUNS
In situations where a driver is making a single run, he or she
is considered the winner once he or she stages and receives
the start signal or is declared the winner by the official starter.
If a competitor crosses the boundary line on a single run, the
elapsed time is voided for lane-choice determination

Dan

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

I spoke to a few racers this weekend who told me that once the person stages and as long as no one is in the other lane then they can break the beam even if the tree never activated. It’s called the John force rule as I guess this happened to him previously. Obviously, it’s still a very very gray area with some tracks and racers. I know it happened this weekend at Atco in TAFC. A driver got a bye after his opponent broke on the burnout, he took the tree and hit the 330 cone, even his team thought they got DQed and were bummed till they were told because nobody was I. The other lane they were clear and onto the next round.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

I wanted to add....

Earlier it was said that if you LBTA you were in violation of going down track when the starter did not clear you to. That would get you DQ'ed possibly..

Well once you are given the signal to do a burnout and stage the only way the starter is going to stop you from continuing is to hit the flashing reds on the tree and then walk out to motion you to hold or back up.....

You're not in violation of anything if you were cleared to burnout and stage.....and not signaled in some way to NOT attempt to take the tree....

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

I don't know that this rule clears anything up. I assume the start signal is one (or more) of the amber lights flashing on the tree, but the 'or' muddies it all up. It basically is just the starter's call but there is no basis given for how the starter would decide that.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

I would have to disagree. If I have a car that is slow getting off track or a employee given the ok by the starter to go out a pick up a piece of paper off track or score boards are not up to date with the new dial ins I dont feel as a starter I need to flash reds as I would be doing that all day long. The track is not ready until starter flips the switch and auto start takes over. I think keeping the event flowing it is ok to start your burnout but doesn't give you the ok to race down an unsafe track. Just my opinion and I let the racers know before event what gets you DQed. Also off topic but if racers made tire smoke at the finish line they were done.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Tire smoke gets a warning generally....once. Unless you lost control of your car.

The dial ins are assumed correct if you stage, you as the racer accepted what's on your board.

Starter is usually back a little ways from starting line and almost always hits the flashing reds rather than just try to get drivers attention. The reds will alert them there is a problem.

All this is up to the Starter so if you are doing that job, its your call....along with possibly the race or division director....

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

This was for Wild Wild West comment about being DQ'd for crossing the center line boundry.
Dan

BTW, It was nice talking with you in Topeka.

Re: Leaving before Tree question
 

Nice meeting you too, Dan!