Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

So what's the dirt on whatever triggered this? Changes to the head casting numbers for 11-14 cars.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

There's plenty of dirt! Keep asking, it will be interesting to see if you get any response from anyone. I think this should interest every Stock/Super Stock racer but it has quietly slipped thru the cracks.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

A superseded replacement?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

It seems like this combination has drawn some attention since it went -1.20 and got instant hp at a D1 race last month. Maybe Mr. Carson or his spokesperson, JDM, can shed some light on the topic?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

It just got another 5 HP today

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I can only guess, but my best guess when I initially read this was that someone had entered as a 2014 but actually used heads with at least one of the differences in the 13 head which are:

1. CNC ports/chamber
2. Larger exhaust valve


Am I getting warm?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I can tell you you're warming up but it's much deeper than that! If NHRA racers had any idea they would all have a fit. Issues like this should never be ignored no matter what brand you race. These oversights erode the foundation class racing is built on! Keep digging and maybe someone will give you a reasonable explanation but I doubt you'll get one from the tech dept.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Its called running heads that didn't come on a certain combo from the factory. Bigger valves, cnc chambers and runners, having pistons custom made to not hit the head... because it didn't come on a 5.0 coyote motor. But somehow it got approved by higher ups. Then gets the combo hit with a 1.20 under with what should be an illegal engine combo. That's all I'm gonna say about it but believe me, there is a lot more to this certain story.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

How interesting. I don't even know who you are, but that is exactly the same story I have heard somewhere else, and it was concerning exactly the car which I suspected it was.

I didn't know any stocker was allowed carbon doors either, but evidently I was wrong...

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Damn, sounds like someone has been poking the bear ......

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

"The Coyote blueprint specs have been changed."

Maybe that should say...The Coyote blueprint specs have been corrected.

Question...Was the -1.20 under car at the D-1 race torn down and checked? If not, why not?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I asked that at the time. A photo was provided of the car in the barn with the throttle body removed.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Carbon Fiber Doors AND Optic Armor polycarbonate windows. Is it a coincidence that there are only 2 CJs in the country with these lightweight parts and they run out of the same shop?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I possibly have the same problem someone else did which led to these revelations. This is the piston Mahle sold me. Anyone happen to know if this is the one where the dome will hit the chamber unless it is a CNC chamber?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I believe the new approved cylinder heads are the 5.2 Coyote, GT350 cylinder heads. They are CNC ported and also have a larger valve.
They also have larger port runners.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

The earlier heads are hard to find just like the SBC so these are the superceded heads. Nothing to look at here.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

That is not what this is about, at all. No new heads were added. Some were taken away that shouldn't have been there to begin with though.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

He was never for a lack of posts before. I am sure he will weigh in.....well maybe.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

He's the brother of Jeff Hairrington who runs this combination with the CORRECT heads and is now the one holding the bag of horsepower that the other one got running the combo with the wrong heads on it.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Tear downs did no good because the tech dept protected one certain racer and allowed heads, pistons and other parts which were never produced or installed by the factory. We're talking about Stock where factory produced and approved components are mandated to be used by all competitors. When bogus specs get onto a TI form the person responsible should be held accountable. Keep digging and you'll be surprised. Not everyone will spend the time to look into this because they think it doesn't affect them because it's not the brand they race but how do we know if this is an isolated case? The more you look the more surprised you'd be. Even tech officials have been told to look the other way. Heads are not rare, like mentioned that's not what this is about. There's only nothing to look at here if you choose to look the other way.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Yeah I don't get it! This guy goes 1.20 under gets the combo instant horsepower, gets torn down and found to be bogus and all the sudden were changing the blueprint specs and the horsepower stands. This has got to be the biggest crock of sheet I've seen in a while!

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Basic point is that Mr. Carson is cheating.......... Car did NOT come from Ford with Carbon doors or Lexan windows or heads off a new 5.2 coyote motor from the GT350 motor. Believe me, we have 1 of 3!!! that were produced in 2013(claimed as a correct 14 now). The only white one produced. Actually 1 of 2 because one black one is still at Ford. But when you have an unlimited budget you can get anything approved for the right amount of money. Sad part is now my brother has 18hp put on his combo that NHRA refuses to remove. Bogus engine that should not pass tech got the HP. Any of us do that and we will get expelled from NHRA. Money makes the squeaky wheel quiet..............

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I agree......Oh and thanks for being a stand up guy Coot. We appreciate it. Hopefully soon I'll get to meet you in person, lol

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I'm getting ready to jump in this class with both feet. Testing the car in a couple weeks and I'm already fighting HP. Hopefully not from a bogus car. With being Ford people and researching this combination for years. I was a little confused about all the different head numbers, figured it out though. Hopefully NHRA has!!





Bret Velde
2003 FS/?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Someone had to approve this bogus stuff! I'm sure there must be someone at NHRA who can provide an answer to this. Who instructed the tech officials to allow this and how long has this been going on? If the TI form has been updated and the bogus heads, pistons ect. have been removed shouldn't the HP factor be put back to whatever it was before these parts were used?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Jamie,

The car does NOT have carbon fiber doors, it does have Poly Carbonate windows which have been approved for 7 years. None of that matters because the car weighs what it has to weigh.

Carson's car has the factory Ford '14 head castings and you are right the pistons do not work with them. But if you use a .015" thicker head gasket and put the pistons .010" deeper in the hole they do work. Just use the factory deck height.

Listen if your brother would have kept his word and not hit the index we would have stayed away from it. But now we are trying to make the car a natural D car which we will do by years end.

We were protested last year at Indy, torn down to the crankshaft. So Division 3, 2, and 1 have all taken this car apart. If you want to call the NHRA tech guys cheaters you can do that, we will not. Tell your brother to learn to keep his word and none of this would have happened.

Jim

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I will correct one statement I made. It's Fezell's car that you got carbon doors approved for, not Carson's. But Carson's car has CNC heads that are made for a 5.2 gt350 combo. Runners are bigger, Valves are bigger, chamber is smaller. Not even Cobra Jet heads. But YOU got them approved by NHRA. Running a CNC head as the same combo as a car that has as cast heads is absolutely cheating. Just because you got it added to the approved list doesn't make it right. The Tech guys that tear you down just follow the numbers and guidelines set by Upper NHRA. So yeah...it passed. Stock Eliminator is for "as produced" cars. Not "oh this head is way better, lets get it approved even though it didn't come on it from Ford". As far as somebody keeping their word, Jeff's a big boy and will handle that himself. But YOU got 13hp put on the combo with one pass.......... YOU made the average higher, YOU went 1.20 under. So at this point the last 18hp is ALL on YOU. As far as the window deal. It didn't come from Ford with Lexan....

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

And I will quote Charlie Bob.... When he actually wins more than one round of racing in a row against another car he might get some credit....doubt it... but maybe, just maybe. Until then, maybe even after...most likely still after...Ya'll will be hated on this sport. It's hard enough to keep the sport alive but with people like you that are determined to ruin something, it makes it even harder. Who really gives 2 flying F**** about HAVING to be #1 qualifier at a Divisional.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Some one at NHRA had to put their name on changes made to the TI Forms. If they have that much influence in the tech dept then they have control over divisional tech inspectors. The part I don't understand is how these parts were ok'd without Ford Racing knowing about it? Someone should be able to answer this question.
It's not fair for your performance in stock class to be compared to another car built to bogus engine specs. The HP factor should go back to what it was prior to the addition of non production parts usage. The more you look the more dirt you'll find.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Again you are wrong, they are as casted OEM '14 heads. Again you are calling NHRA tech officials cheaters, again you are just sticking up for a guy who doesn't work on his own stuff and is SLOW. His engine builder can't figure out how to make him faster, that is not our fault. We are trying to make a D combination so we fit in a class.

Good bye,

Jim

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

So why are the guides showing 2013 head 1.25 EX valve and the 2014 showing 1.22 EX valve?? This is gonna be fun!! LOL







Bret Velde
2003 FS/?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Bret, it's because the guide is now correct. I am not going to comment anymore on this because everybody knows the story by now. They removed the head(CNC version) that Carson is/was running when he went 1.20 under from the 14 model. So I don't care to argue with him anymore or at all really. People just get really hurt when caught in a lie. I really like how he thinks I am calling the tech guys liars?? Where did I say that. If you handed the tech inspectors a spec sheet and it says the motor should have brodix heads on it, they do their job and check for brodix heads. They didn't write the standards, they just follow them.

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Thanks for the info. I'm jumping into the fire, hope I don't get burned!! LOL





Bret Velde
2003 FS/?

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Here is the dirt on the piston & heads. First photo is my piston, which I have found out is in fact the original Mahle piston. This will fit all 11-14 cylinder heads and is the correct piston for all of these combos. So thankfully I don't have to buy new ones.

2nd photo is a piston with magically the same number on it, but quite a difference! It won't fit into the chamber of the BR3E heads used on the 2012 302/325, the 2014 302/350, or the 2011-2014 302/380. However it does fit into the chamber of the Boss 302 head used on the 2013 302/350 and also the 2015-up Gen 2 Coyote heads, as well as the GT350 Voodoo head.

So how was this piston ever legally used when it doesn't fit the correct head?

It goes deeper than this though, Jim absolutely knew what the original and legal piston was, he even posted a photo of it here in 2013: http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...64&postcount=2

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

No specs have been changed on the 14 combination, NHRA just clarified the difference between the 13 heads and 14 heads. We do have both engine combinations for Carson's car. The Michigan Mafia and it's engine builder paid to have us torn down at D3 Indy last year. We set the record in D1 last year at the Dutch and were torn down there too. We went 1.20 under, they pulled us in the barn tech'd the throttle body, intake manifold, and checked the cylinder head runners and casting numbers. So my suggestion is talk to your engine builder, get him to make more power and stop whining and lying. We official named the car "Legal Cheater" that name has been dead since 1973. What ever engine combination the Mafia decides to run, 13 or 14 we will put the same in Don's car and will follow them around. We can make both 13 or 14 combination as a natural D car. Or you can let us go on our way to make just the 14 a Natural D car. Keep it up calling us cheaters and I will do it with both combinations, because WE CAN! Or keep paying to have us torn down again at Indy, and I will bet you $10,000 right now that you are wrong.

Jim

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

I've met some really great people drag racing and I consider Jeff Hairrington to be one of those right at the top of the list. He's a great friend and extremely talented racer so for someone to come up here spouting off at the mouth about someone of his integrity tells me all I need to know about them. Lot of really good racers and people all across this country.
Then you got a very select group of pricks that can't drive a lick but got big wallets and egos that spend an incredible amount of money to be #1 qualifier so they can walk around with their chest poked out patting themselves on the back and swinging their little peckers around but can't win a round in competition.
Gotta love diversity in our sport......

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

HR9121

I have to agree with you Jeff is quite the accomplished racer I respect his talent we spent a lot of time talking in Gainesville this year he informed me the reason why he went number one qualifier and hit the index that still was against what he had said he was going to do...

Ever since the first two cars ran down the track in NHRA the one who lost said the other guy was cheating or if his car was slower that's still the case today....

Don Carson went to two races last year ran slow to drop the average he did that for Jeff Harrington because Jeff asked......

As for the Pistons they will fit just fine you either don't cut yourself on your head for the minimum CC or use a 0.15 thicker head gasket or don't push the piston out of the hole.


It is a different person than the original factory Pistons I know this because Don car is a factory car but when I ordered Pistons this is what came any backyard engine assembler can figure this out really easy its engine 101 make sure the piston does not hit the cylinder head.

Because you have a minimum on all engine specs does not mean you have to put it there.?

Jim

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

Or you can use the correct head at minimum CC with the correct valve diameter, the correct gasket, the correct piston at 0 deck, and guess what? The dome does not strike the chamber and the valves do not strike the valve reliefs! Imagine that!

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

HR9121

I am actually in North Carolina right now come on by tomorrow at the engine shop and you can see the motor going together first hand

My cell. 732 620 4932
Call or text

Re: Coyote blueprint specs changed
 

K danner

I invite you to do the same.
My engine shops always open to you.