Heads up today vs yesterday
 

When I started racing in the mid 60s it was only class I ran mostly A/S and I ran all the other A/S cars and every other class ran each other the same then at the end of the day the winner of each class ran each other on a handicap system for overall eliminator. Why did it ever change that is the way it should still be but it is not. I know people will say you can't get a big enough car count today because the slower cars wont come. Why is it different today, back then if you had a slower car you worked on it to make it faster for next week. The payout was 25 bucks for a class win and 100 for overall eliminator. Why can't we go back to what worked there was no AFHS you tried to go as fast as you could and every week you tried to do better. Am I just dreaming of the good old days.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

The entire sport has become too complicated for that to happen again. In the 60's all the stockers were street driven or bumper towed and the rules made it less expensive to race. SS cars were suped up factory cars and stuff like 4-links were no where to be seen. Transmissions were street issue and tires had to have tread. The best shot at more heads up class racing would be to re designate Sportsman as weight to HP unmodified engines. Let people run pure stockers or swap stock engines in same badge bodies. Allow fiberglass but require a weight sticker. Weight to CID is best but superchargers and EFI mess that up due to the different HP output.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

It was more like real racing back then. When bracket racing came along, that's where all the slow guys went. Our car counts went to nearly nothing. NHRA had to dumb it down with rediculous slow Indexes & dial your own bracket rules to get the slow guys back.
Running off records was too hard for too many, evidently.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

How many classes where there at that time? I am sure part of the reason it can't work today is too many classes. You would have a lot of singles for the win today.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

One way of having more heads up runs you would have to go to 1lb. weight breaks instead of 1/2lb. breaks.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

I have a 1966 rule book I found in a model building forum.
There were 27 classes (A - O) in Stock/Super Stock with stick and auto totaled. Super Stock was one class, S/S and S/SA. FX had three classes. Most of what we know as SS cars would have been either in FX or classed as gassers/altereds. FX could swap engines like GT but Stock and Super were original motor only. Cams were allowed in S/S S/SA and A/S A/SA only.

Quote that applied to Stock and Super Stock.

"Engine equipment other than regularly produced for assembly line production by the manufacturer is not permitted except as noted in these class rules."

You could change pistons as long as the CR stayed the same. How many grand would that slice out of the cost of class racing????? I ask because I'm math challenged...

The entire rule book was 28 pages long and the NHRA was run by 10 people. Membership was $8 per year. Base 289 2BBL Mustang $6000 off the lot.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

More heads up!

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

What I have learned about running off records is does not work because of track altitude and weather conditions when record was set. Unless all records are factored using say SAE dyno horsepower factoring to correct ET.

For example if a record is set in A/S at dutch classic, usually mineshaft, and there is no one racing B/S at this event, and B/S is set at indy in the heat of the summer, the next year at U S NAtionals, B/S will have a Big advantage over A/S if they race off records.

To make it work you have to altitude correct records

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

If the tracks were at over an 1000' elevation, we ran off of altitude corrected records. Around here (Div 4 seldom has "good air") I won points races running a tenth off my record. The fast car there that day. Didn't see a lot of brake lights before the finish line back then. :-)

Kinda comical at national events around here, and the World Finals when held here, to see national record holders that had set their records at Atco, NJ or Fremont, CA show up here, and could not run fast enough to qualify. They just thought they were real fast because of the tracks back home.
And, people not bright enough to not set records in mineshaft conditions made it tough for others running their class.

We didn't all have these weather stations & Crew Chief Pro software back then. All we knew was "Man, it's slow here!" :-)

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Look around. Nothing is as it was in the "good ol' days" and never will be. At least we can still remember it, mostly, and wax nostalgic.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Just need to accept we have become a bunch of friggin bracket racers. With cars much more expensive than a bracket car needs to be.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

You nailed it !

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Completely agree Ed --- 99.9 % of the time. The other .1 % is when the car in the other lane is in my class.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

nostalgia bracket racers
Mike

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

And do away with AHFS what ever happened to a racing that the fastest car wins. If you have a slower car work on it to be competitive. AHFS is like socialism.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

The crazy thing is that when I first started racing in the mid '70's, the good race car stuff was only about 10-15 years old, cars were all over the place, I even got a few cars for free if I would come get them out of the way. We raced, street drove, used them for daily transportation, and thought nothing of it. In 1992, I started looking for another '68 Chevelle to run as a stocker, decided to build my own car instead of driving other people's cars, and even then shelled out $500.00 for a roller with a straight body. Several cars later, the supply of parts started drying up fast, the local pick a part junkyard didn't have anything but '73-85 smog dogs and little FWD cars,(that's where they all belonged as far as I was concerned),and the prices for '69 Camaros,Chevelles, Mustangs, Road Runners, etc. went through the roof. Once at Pomona, some spectator in the pits told me that "that car's too nice to race. You should restore it". Two observations- the second of which bothers me---
#1--All these cars came out when I was in high school, I remember when they were new.
#2--All these cars now are around 50 years old. That's what bothers me the most.
Yes, racing is different, but it's still fun.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

The AHFS has "morphed" into what it now is because the NHRA is no longer capable or even concerned about policing S/SS rules and combos.

Billy Nees, NHRA Nostalgia Bracket Racer (formerly S/SS 1188)

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

I agree.
No hp should be added until that racer goes through a teardown by a capable , smart tech person, with free reign from NHRA.
I dare say, a lot wouldn't get h.p. . They'd get a year off instead.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Unfortunately this statement is reality.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Happened to a friend. Somebody out of Division went too quick. Nobody even looked at the car to see if it was legal after-1.20 pass. The combo got horsepower, just the same.
MJ

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Be carefui what you wish fore.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

$6000 !!???? Hardly. Base sticker price for a 1966 Mustang Hardtop was around $2500. Convertible was around $2700. I doubt you could get one to $4000 with every possible option. Yeah, those were the days!

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Here is my uncles 64 Ford window sticker

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Why all I think about is heads up racing every day I think about and plan to go faster and work at it and there are guys who do nothing to go fast they are just bracket racing in nhra stock super stock and can win with no real effort there should be bracket and heads up but both should not be the same. It should be separate.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

Just go and build a car to run Comp elim.

Re: Heads up today vs yesterday
 

My car is going to run Comp NHRA has been meeting to settle the rules for letting the showdown cars run Comp when not in there 8 events They don't want them screwing up the stock classes like happened this year in FS/AA