When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I have slept on this last night and wasn't going to say anything but I'm at Charlotte bought 5 gallons of 112 from sunoco, tried to make qualifying runs and car would not stay running
Thought fuel pump was bad , carb, ignition
Come to find out that gave methanol at the sunoco truck .
Yeah , I was mad , so I'm just saying check your fuel when you buy at truck
I'm not a whiner or never complain but I thought racers should be aware , it's a bad feeling , well I'm going to try my best this morning , eddie

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Good luck

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Save your receipt and call Sunoco racing fuel. I had something of the same and got a check for $2500. On my instance the fuel pump was marked cam2 and it was gt100. It's worth the call.

Casey Miles
248H

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Can you smell the difference? I have noticed that some fuels as you pour into the cell have a different smell then others.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Try VP, wont have that problem.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Great info. Now we have to smell the fuel before a fuel check. Are you serious ?

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I've heard of guys pouring water in their fuel tank thinking it was methanol, since both are usually clear. Is Sunoco methanol dyed blue? Any race fuel has such a pungent, peculiar smell, I would think that would be a tip off.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

OK.. OK.. so when are people going to reset their alarm clocks, and WAKE UP!!!.. with all of the nonsense surrounding Sunoco Race Fuels, my question would easily be, "IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU USING IT??"..

We continue to hear horror story after horror story about the brand, but for some reason think that because it's the fuel of NHRA, we have to use it.. they can't test it in the Pro Stock cars, they can't test it in the Comp cars, they are probably still guessing in the Stk and SS cars, or just saying it's close enough, and they have even had problems with their methanol.. the stuff almost never tests right, has no shelf life, and has been a proven detriment in higher compression and horsepower cars... BUT, for some reason, those that don't have to use it, continue to use it, and those that have to use it get penalized in power, or parts...

I do understand that NHRA has made it difficult to get VP Race Fuels at some venues, but it is always available, and usually not to far off site.. giving up performance, changing tune-ups, and breaking parts make the trip to get VP worth it.. especially if you can use it in your class... how can racers get a DQ, when the product can't even be tested???

AND NOW, we hear that either they are not putting it in the right drums, or their race personnel just don't care, or suck.. OR ALL THREE.. how do you possibly mix up fuel for a Stk or SS car??... beyond me..

I actually was amazed to read an article where the NHRA VP of Competition stated that they went to Sunoco SR-18 as a way of slowing down Pro Stock.. might not be the exact words, but it is the meaning.. NHRA needs to be ashamed of themselves for ruining a class, and penalizing racers across the board.. and all just to stuff someone's pockets.. NO DOUBT!!

DON'T EVEN COME NEAR ME WITH THAT DIESEL FUEL!!!... and remember, if you don't have to use it, DON'T!!!

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I tried that stuff, because it was easier to get at the races. Had trouble with it failing fuel check. The fuel check guys said they got their samples that weekend from the Sunoco reps at the track. I bought Sunoco fuel, a gallon sample from each drum they had. The drums of the supposedly same number Sunoco did not all check the same.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I`ve run Sunoco since 1995, never had an issue anywhere. Even after sitting in the stock tank over the winter and it passes 5 months later.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Have never had a problem with VP. Is rather pricey though.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I will not use sunoco ever again
I've called Keith nance multiple times haven't got a call back
Issue is not resolved
I only bought sunoco because I didn't see VP until we saw a truck outside the gate a day after
But sunoco will not be in our 13 race cars ever again
If they cant stand behind they're mistake and at least give my entry back it's bad business

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

WOW....Is SUNOCO and NHRA that stupid ?

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Not sure of your point here. Because you've had success with Sunoco, everyone who has had a bad experience is an idiot? Because you never paid for race gas and actually got methanol, anyone who claims they have had that happen is lying?

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I have been using Sunoco 110 for years never had a problem.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

No he is simply saying he has had good luck with it since 1995. No where did he say any of the things you are accusing him of saying or implying.

I know of way more people having VP fail fuel check then any other fuel. I am sure it happens with every brand.

Now how Sunoco handled this case is definitely wrong.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

We changed to renegade when we had trouble with both vp and sunoco in our stockers passing fuel check. Running it for the last 3 years and never had any problems with it passing no matter how old it is.It's probably not as fast as c-11 but it's worth something knowing you'll always pass fuel check .

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I actually got what he was trying to say. I just don't understand why people feel compelled to make a comment that runs counter to what everybody else in a given thread is saying. Let me put it this way; Hawk tells us that he's used Sunoco since 1995 without a problem. What does knowing that do for anyone (particularly the people who've had a bad experience and now don't like or use Sunoco)? The information is irrelevant by definition, but I'm certainly not trying to stop him from making a statement.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I too have been using Sunoco race fuels...purple,blue and red for decades and never have had an issue, purchased at numerous tracks in division 1 and 2. The OP’s Issue was he got alcohol which is blue, similar at a quick glance to Sunoco Blue, been there, done that and it was my fault for walking away after telling the kid pumping the fuel that I wanted 5 gallons of “blue”

So what exactly is the unstated issue with Sunoco that some have claimed here, fuel check? Not a concern for me.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Your take is baffling.

If someone makes a post stating that Company X has horrible products or service, and I've always had a great experience with them, I would feel compelled to state my contrary experience.

If we shouldn't do that, why are replies even allowed?

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

First, I would say that replies are allowed because it provides an opportunity to get information, advice, alternatives, etc. "I'm looking for a really good set of stainless steel headers. Who do you guys recommend?"


What I kinda don't get (and I am NOT trying to be a dick) is a bunch of people sharing information (positive or negative) about somebody or something, and having one guy say "I've never had that issue".


When that guy says "I've never had that issue", does that one voice change anybody's mind? I would say "no". Think of a guy posting that he's developed a miss, and another guy posts that he's never had a miss; wouldn't your reaction to the second post be something like "Good for you, but that's not going to help me identify and eliminate my miss".


Now, if that one voice offered something constructive, like "I a miss problem too, and then you guys told me about Joe Putzi at XYZ Engineering, and he worked with me to solve the problem".


I didn't want to make anybody mad, or insult Hawk, and I'm done with the topic now.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I'm tending to think that a lot of racers buy their Sunoco product at the pumps at most tracks.. and they just might feel that they are getting good stuff.. but are they??

It seems that the majority of the problems occur when buying Sunoco products off of the trucks at NHRA National and Divisional Events.. Sunoco products have been proven to be very inconsistent, and even if the lower fuels test OK, are you getting the right performance out of your set-up, or are you blaming the track, or the weather??.. and actually, it's been proven that Sunoco shelf life is non-existent.. so, just cause your car runs when you put it in, doesn't meaning that your car is actually running..

I actually couldn't believe that on the Sunoco chart, VP C-14+ crossed over to Sunoco SR-18, but to use the SR-18, I found that I had to make a timing and jet change, and couldn't get the car to come close to a decent idle.. THANK GOD that VP showed up that day.. took the rest of the 5 gallons to fuel check, and it failed for SR-18.. but I was told that I could use it.. WTF???... but don't listen to me, back to back it your self..

SOOOOO, I got a chance to back to back the fuels, at a good track (Maple Grove), with good weather (SPRING TIME), and the SR-18 got poured into the motorhome... IMAGINE THAT!!!

I watched dyno pulls on a current Pro Stock motor, back to backing fuels.. on the best tune-up, SR-18 was down 30hp... wonder what you're down in your combo... OR, if you're using Sunoco, how much better would you be with VP RACE FUELS???

NUFF SAID!!!

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I've been buying Sunoco off the truck and in pails for the past 4 years with zero issues with fuel check, consistency or performance. I've also have had zero issues with storing fuel from October to April. I've also lucked into winning a few races and setting a record or two. To speak of Sunoco as if its an inferior product is just being naive.

Last time I checked this was the Stock/Super Stock section of the forum where fuels like C14+ and SR18 most likely are not primarily used so I cant speak to these products....I can tell you we've run VP C11, C12, C25, Sunoco Blue, Purple, Maximal and Surge and they all perform well and pass tech if handled appropriately. So to your answer your last question, for most stock eliminator engines the answer is not one bit.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Dave Ficacci...KNOWS!

Seems to work pretty good in my Super Comp car too.;)

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

It's a shame that Sunoco did nothing for the OP. Terrible way to handle business.

I have used VP C-12, C-14, their new fuel called VP Blue, Sunoco Blue and Red (Supreme and Maximal) in my car, they all run exactly the same. Been using Sunoco Purple in my slower car, no problems.

Since I no longer Class Race, I am free to use whatever fuel I want to. I try to use Sunoco due to cost. Not all tracks have it, so I have to use VP from time to time. No problem, just more $$$$.

The OP got screwed, he will never use Sunoco again, and I don't blame him.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

If anyone has questions or issues on Sunoco Fuels for Stock and Super stock in Div1, you need to call Jason at Insinger Fuels, He will be happy to help you any way he can.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Surely you aren't implying that Insinger Fuels wouldn't handle questions or issues any different for any racer regardless of class running their fuels.

how did the OP get "screwed"? What does he want Sunoco to do to stop his whining and complaining?

I'm sure it was an honest mistake, pumped from the wrong drum as was mine. The OP like myself didn't catch it as he was pouring. That's on him as it was on me. Of course all racers should be checking their fuel before/as they pour it.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

My post was concerning people who posted that they failed fuel check. Jason will answer questions from anyone who has concerns or questions regarding Sunoco fuels for any class. Sorry I didn't clarify that.. Jason is a great guy and went out of his way to try to help Ryan Horensky when Maple Grove ran out of Surge at the Dutch Classic.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

you didn't state that in your first reply. Further there are only 2 replies claiming they had issue passing fuel check and 3 replies stating they never had an issue with fuel check even when using fuel that was months old.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

The reason I say the OP got screwed is that he never got a phone call back about the mistake.

I don't know if his fuel got pumped from a drum, or from a pump. Easy to see what they are doing at a pump. Not easy to see what they are doing from a drum.

When you get fuel at Cecil, it is out of a drum, and for the most part you can't see what the label on the drum says, so you are assuming they are pumping the right fuel for you. Never had a mix-up there.

Atco no longer pumps from a pump, no more Sunoco there, so buying a 5 gallon pail is simple, but expensive.

Numidia pumps Sunonco out of the pump, CHEAP!, and easy to see what you are getting from them.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

I've run Sunoco, VP and Renegade

All 3 116 RED dyed fuels.

Never had any problem with any of them from any track or supplier.

VP has X-16 and its just not available anywhere but direct from a VP dealer. I was buying it from Jeff Stricker

I also ran the Q-15 blend for half a season a couple years ago.

Tried VP C-14 at one event this year.

Both C-14 and Q-15 fuels sucked in plain English....

VP prices are ridiculous and some of their fuels let off offensive vapors enough to make your head spin....Noxious !!

Sunoco Maximul from a pump or a sealed 5 gallon can runs well for me and is available most of the time.

I dislike buying VP fuel other than the X-16. If it was more readily available I'd buy it when Sunoco was not available.

Other than that one fuel I would not buy VP....Pretty much hate the stuff....

Had a Stocker in 2005-2006...Bought VP fuel usually at the track after pumping out what was in the cell and completely emptying the cell with a hand pump.
At the Cecil Lucas race ....I bought fuel there and a lot of guys were failing fuel check or nearly failing. I showed the NHRA guy my receipt for the fuel I just bought that was out of spec. Seemed to me at that race they let it slide.....to many cars were checking bad. VP fuel right out of the drum not right.....don't recall if it was C-12 or C-11.....That was the only 2 fuels I used at Lucas races with that car. One more reason I don't use VP if I can buy Sunoco...

I've run Alcohol a lot and its nothing like gasoline.....I think I'd know in a heartbeat I was putting methanol in my fuel cell and not race gas......Yea I'd be pissed to.......

Some gas pump jockey started putting gasoline into my diesel pickup recently. I caught it before he got much in there....Stupidity is rampant.....

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

we do know...
it was the the fuel pumper's mistake at the truck and the OP's for not recognizing that he was pouring alcohol.

so again, what does he expect to be done?

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

The Russians did it! Or, they are liberal Democrats that hacked the fuel. :mad:

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

The fuel was pumped from a 55 gallon drum into a brand new sealed 5 gallon can

It's not that I'm whining and complaining
It's bad that I spent 1500.00 to get to a national
Event and never get down the track or get to move on ladder , changed fuel pump, changed ignition , and carburetor,
The whole deal sucks and ruined my weekend
It was a mistake and shouldn't have happened but it did ,

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

The same thing happened to me at Atco about 25 years ago when I first started racing stock. Was supposed to be C12 and was methanol. It was a track mistake then a driver error. From that day on when I purchase a new jug of fuel or take fuel from a unfamiliar source, I spill a little into the cap or on the ground just to make sure its the right stuff.

Doesn't sound like a brand problem, sounds like a handling and racing management problem. Both fuels work great. You had a once in a lifetime problem that I'm sure won't happen again. Chalk it up to experience.

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

and it's on you!


EXACTLY!

Stop your whining and complaining!

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Thanks for your input Dave... and you're right, C-14+ and Sr-18 are not commonly used in Stock or Super Stock... BUT, I see that you have used C-25, probably in your SS car.. I just find it interesting that, at the time, C-14+ cross referenced to SR-18, and strangely enough, so did C-25.. I was confused by the wide band of coverage by one fuel..

While I'm sure that we could have a long term conversation about the two products, I can only offered my experiences, in the Super classes and Comp, the experiences of the teams I've worked with, along with the problems that I've witnessed on the dyno, and at the track..

We all know that there are those set-ups that are not too tempermental about what fuels go through them, and we also know the fuel costs, and availability, can be a deciding factor. It just bothers me that we racers pay a lot of money to do what we do, and at least we should be able to expect quality control, and consistency.. I have never had an issue with VP, but as described, I have had issues with Sunoco..

There are those guys on here, Dave and Rich, for example that I know have run the gambit with fuels, oils, plugs, parts, whatever.. they have each put in the time to compare different fuels, and found what they feel is best for them.. and their opinions are valued, and appreciated...

My point is not so much to pit one fuel against the other, cause I have, as much as to point out that since Sunoco has become the NHRA fuel, there have been too many problems in its use at events.. and yes, I may be referencing Comp and Pro Stock, but are those folks not racers too??.. failing fuel check, or being DQed after winning around affects all racers.. and I know that it has been happening in Stock and SS too.. just my opinion though..

I think it's time that both fuel companies be allowed on the property at ALL events, and let the racers be allowed to use the product of their choice, even Comp and Pro Stock... although this has happened at some tracks, it's not all tracks...

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

This thread got started by someone who was sold improper fuel by someone working for Sunoco.
That person obviously is the main reason the thread starter had a problem. Basically the guy put the wrong fuel in a can and the racer took it for granted it was what he asked for.

If you like VP and have had good results with it, buy it and run it.

If you like Sunoco and have had good results with it, buy it and run it.

Make sure you check it before you dump it in your fuel cell.

I transfer fuel from a sealed can to my jug OR get my jug filled.

I am always aware of what I have and trust me methanol is way different than gasoline.......Its usually clear and cold to the touch.
Gasoline is always vaporous and some fuels from VP are offensive to the nose....methanol is not and more like water....

The fuel issue for us all is a real Pain in the butt.....cost and availability.....

When I can I buy drums and have my own fuel....

Sunoco has a lesser rep for using clean drums.....and that is probably the only issue with their fuel....The only problem I've ever heard of about Sunoco is exactly that....contaminated drums. That's probably the fault of the dealer or distributer...

Buying fuel from pumps like at MG with tanks is also a chance for issues...but that is what we have to deal with.....Insinger supplies all the Sunoco in this area.....

If your worried about fuel quality issues than buy VP .....they have a better rep in that regard....

At the cost we pay for race gas, the suppliers should be handling the fuel and storing it properly.....

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

Granted I haven't been doing this as long as alot of you but I have never failed fuel check with VP or Sunoco. Alot of it has to do with how the fuel is handled, jugs clean, fuel system cleaned out and flushed when changing fuels etc. Maybe I'm just lucky!

Re: When you buy sunoco make sure it's not methanol
 

please elaborate about the problems you witnessed as a result of Sunoco fuels...Standard aka Purple, Supreme aka Blue and Maximal aka red, those that are in use in bracket cars, stock, super stock, throttle stop classes, Top Sportsman, Top Dragster.

You can count me amongst them, having bracket raced for 27 years and used every oil, plug, converter, carb, manifold, tire, yada, yada, yada as well VP fuels which I found offered no performance gain, no added consistency, only added cost.

Many bracket and class racers all across the country use Sunoco fuels, some for decades as I have and I don't personally know one that has had any issues with Sunoco fuels on the dyno or the track.

Agree with all the above.

I like Sunoco and have had good results with it. I'll continue to buy it and run it.

Now lets get back to the reason for this thread, the OP's whining and complaining because nobody at his local sunoco distributor will talk to him after he poured alcohol into his fuel cell.