Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

This post will concern any type of S/SS racing below the national event level.

National events have become so ridiculously expensive and out of reach for many , that it is a whole different subject. With the lowered quotas, the average racer who still has to work for a living, would be lucky to be able to get to enough divisionals to be able enter any , anyway.

A couple of years ago, a good friend got to the semi's at the Wild Horse divisional race.
This with a top shelf GT car that repeats like a Swiss watch. His payout? $150 bucks.
Entry ? $165 .
This is totally unacceptable in my mind ,and has to change.

Most of the independent races are run this way, that I know of: The track tells the promoter how much they want for a tech card. In other words, for the privilege of going down their racetrack. This is usually the same as what the local bracket or trophy racer pays.
The promoter may or may not get a percentage of this fee.
The payback comes from a separate lane , or pool fee.
It is usually paid back at a fixed percentage, depending on car count.

I contend that NHRA divisionals should be conducted this way.

Currently, the specific divisional tracks get together and decide what the entry fee will be for the season. The tracks are free to set the actual payout amounts wherever they want.
We don't get to see how the $170 or $165 entry is actually divided up or used .

I also contend that is the job of the track or the promoter to put butts in the seats for divisionals, so they don't have to insult and pilch money from the racers.

I realize that the class national type events were conducted in a different format, but I would still value the opinion of the promoters (MB).
Also, other promoters, past or present, association guys, etc...What say you?

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Do you happen to know how many thousands and thousands of dollars the track has to pay NHRA for the privilege of having the divisional race? How many entry fees does it take to make them whole again?

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

No, I don't know ,Charlie.I don't keep up with it .I just know it is a significant percentage.

A former Midwestern 600 car LODRS track operator told me, after giving up the points meets, that it wasn't worth the effort, after the two week long prep work for one time per season increased car count.
He told me that, after a good Friday night T&T session, a Saturday Team race, and then a Sunday specialty event, he would come within about $500 of what he would clear after a Divisional, with nowhere near all the extra work.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

I may have not made myself clear earlier.
First of all, I understand the heavy NHRA clip off the top for the privilege of one of their Divisional races.

Also , I 'm not even suggesting that you should have to pay twice when entering the race.
All I'm saying is if we knew what percentage of entry went towards the payout, then we could "suggest" how it could be dispersed more fairly.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

The track does not set the Tech Card price, nor do they decide on the payout structure......... NHRA does that.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Well, Jim Wahl was told by IHRA that they need to have 130 cars at a IHRA Pro-Am to break even so I would assume a NHRA event is a little more and depending on if they have TAFC or TAD at those events because of insurance fees.

Let's face it, people including myself have tried the big time, high dollar payout for sportsman racers and it just doesn't work. Ask Myself, Lee Zane, Mike Beard, Dave Ley, you can put $20,000 up to win and people still won't come because a Wally is not up for grabs even when there is no races within 300 miles of your race. Promoters have even put events a day before Divisional is supposed to be run and can't draw people even while they are parked for the Divisional race.

The payouts do need an overhaul but, what can you do besides beat a dead horse that is already dead.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

"The track does not set the Tech Card price"
We've already determined that.

"nor do they decide on the payout structure"
Why does the payout vary between track within the same division?

Thanks for your comments
Oh, and you speak from what authority, Mr. cm ?

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

I don't necessarily disagree with this, Bob
Just looking for thoughts / suggestions here.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

What year was last pay increase at the divisional level?

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

I have my inside info.........

I will have to see what I can dig-up regarding the varying payouts within the same division.....

We had roughly 510 competitors on hand at this past weekends Div 1 event at E-Town, all at $170 a pop.

The Index Classes are not included in that number, and they only paid $50 for a tech card (at least the 11.50 and 10.00 peeps), the 8.50 racers may have paid their "normal" $100 fee. Anyway, their payout was based on tech cards sold for their classes, which was dismal.........

Racers are certainly not here to chase the $$$$. Well, at least not into their pockets, maybe chasing it OUT of their pockets! I know, I had two cars entered and drove a third! Glutton for punishment!

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Thanks for your comments.

The LODRS fee in Div . 7 is $165, agreed upon by the participating tracks.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

That is exactly why Bakersfield no longer has a point race. Also the reason why Salt Lake City requires a double to make the nut. Division One has an easy time of it because they have so many tracks that are all centrally located within the division. In Division Seven, the participating tracks are between four and six hundred miles apart from each other. Chase the carrot out here, you better be independently wealthy and retired.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Im speaking from memory, but I think a divisional 10 years ago was $13.5k to have it and after 500 cars NHRA received a certain percentage of that entry. I think entry was $145 then. So the first 94 cars paid the amount required to NHRA. So the other 406 cars paid $58870.00 This is without crew or spectator fees and concessions collected.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Wouldn't it be great if... oh, nevermind.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ec&oe=5844B491

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Damn you Beard! I'm still trying to get over my disappointment of there not not being another event because of a lack of participation! :(

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

This thread makes me even more grateful to the folks that make Midwest Class Racers such a success. 8 races this year, and they all pay like this or better! It's no wonder we always have 50-75 cars at every race.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Hey Michael, maybe if we put up our Wally for the winner???

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

These types of events can be successful if the promoter can get some sort of corporate sponsorship to cover the purse plus get some butts in the seats to generate revenue. Then the car counts would not be so critical until the event gets some history. The promoter cannot expect to make a huge profit or even break even at the first few events but he has to start somewhere and build on the event year to year. Most all of us have to schedule our vacation time to attend large events during the racing season. I have to schedule mine early in the year so I schedule around the NHRA and IHRA major events that are the closest to my area. As I have said many times it is up to the promoter to sell his product to the paying customer and that is not just the racer. I really hope someone like Michael Beard can get another class national series going. He had a great idea but did not have the financial backing to continue on which is a shame. They put a ton of effort into that race.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Michael put his heart and soul into the Class Nationals in 2014 and 2015. I was there both years, in 2014 with my wife; and in 2015 by myself, and we had a great time. It's an absolute shame that the racer participation and support was so weak. If Michael, or any other promoter, decides to have a race similar to the Class Nationals within 1000 miles driving distance of my home, I will be there.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Then and now
.................................................. .................................................. ...............................
September 2016 - E-town Division Race

510 tech card and at least one additional person per tech card (on average)

(510*170) + (510*55) = $114,750

Number of spectators at $10 Friday,$20 Saturday, $20 Sunday.

(12 *10) + (50* 20) + (50 * 20) = $2120

Total number of drag dogs and t-shirts sales dollars (profit) $2000

Total Weekend Payout = $22,000
Total Advertising Cost = $500

Total income minus advertising and payout = $96,370
*Then subtract NHRA's cut ($50,000), manpower($20,000), insurance ($5000), overhead($10,000),.......

Track owner's cut = $21,370
.................................................. .................................................. ................................
September 1980 - E-town Division Race

(500 * 60) + (500 * 25) = $42,500

(1000 * 10) + (3000 * 12) + (3000 * 12) = $82,000

Total number of drag dogs and t-shirts sales dollars (profit) $20,000

Total Weekend Payout = $22,000
Total Advertising Cost = $10,000

Total income minus advertising and payout = $112,500
*Then subtract NHRA's cut ($25,000), manpower($10,000), insurance ($3000), overhead($5,000),.......

Track Owner's cut = $69,500
.................................................. .................................................. .......................................

Of course many of the values are estimates, but I think a little advertising goes a long way. I never see ads any more for Division or National Events.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

We had substantial financial support, and still barely broke even the first year, and lost our *** the second year. Never again. People had been begging for a Class Nationals event for well over a decade, and we're expected to take losses while it "gets some history"?

We promote big money bracket races, and people show up. We just had an inaugural event at Kil-Kare Raceway in Ohio: a new format of an event for us, at a new facility many of our customers were not familiar with. We had racers from Wisconsin, Texas, Mississippi, and Florida. It was a very smooth, very successful event. Our other four events all had record car counts last year (again), and those events got a purse increase this year (again). That's how it works.



Paul - Midwest series looks great!


Terry - Congrats on the R/U this weekend! And don't be giving my Wally away! ;)

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Footbrake guys don't know how good they have it with the Loose rocker races. I have supported both the class races and door slammer races. Since relocating to west coast we realize it now! Final 4 in divisional race will not get entry fee back. Thanks loose rocker for your events. Hope to return soon!

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

The reality is YOUNG bracket racers want to race, OLDER CLASS racers are enticed to race for that WALLY....as you get older there are many reasons to stay home....scheduling, weather, family obligations, .....

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Amen, Paul. The best thing going in the country for Stock and Super Stock racers. :)

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

This weekend, a pair of $2,500s in Marion, SD (Sioux Falls) and a chance to give something back at the "Make A Wish" Race.

Then, next week, it's a pair of $2,000s (plus a $500 'most rounds won' bonus)at my old track, the Rock, in Eau Claire, WI.

Al Corda

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Been this way for quite a while, too.
15-20 years ago, (somebody help me out here) Rock Running and Kenny Shawver? tried to promote a big bucks S/SS combo.
Ended up refunding the pre-entries. Couldn't get enough collected to pay the track rental??

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Mark, I am looking at the flyer right now for that race (found it when I moved last year, and kept it handy). It was to be August 1-2, 1998 at Edgewater (near Cincinnati, for those unfamiliar). And it had a rain date too. Entry/payout was to be:

Pre-entry: $200
At the gate: $225

Win - $20,000
R/U - $8,000
Semi - $4,000
1/4's - $2,000
1/8's - $1,000 (round of 16)

Plus a Saturday gamblers race, contingency, and more.

And, yes, it was cancelled due to lack of pre-entries and interest.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Not doubting your contention, MJ
The question then is "why"?
I would say that some have never known anything else.
Bracket racing and T&T nights may have kept many tracks open, but it was also the beginning of the end for younger folks' interest in NHRA, IHRA class type racing...in my opinion.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Thanks, BD
It should be noted that this was only 3 years before the successful Class Nationals I ..
Same part of the country..Same time of the year.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

The NHRA is long overdue for a complete restructuring of management, classes, schedule and events. They just went through a change in leadership, but very little has been changed otherwise. I believe that is because they run it like the Clinton Foundation, claiming the majority of dollars taken in are for salaries, travel and admin fees, while paying out a tiny percentage of money to the cause that the damn organization was started for! Unfortunately for the public, the leaders of these orgs will let them fail before they would restructure. The IRS should require non-profits to use 99% of the money they take in to promote the cause, which in this case is having a safe place to race our cars.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

The above and add apathy to that as well. I decided to semi-retire. Life is too short. Finding both the money and desire is waning. I let my IHRA membership and stock# expire. Haven't had anything to the track in better than 3 years. Still go out and plug away at working on something from time to time. May show up again one day.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Is divisional event payout even available to view anywhere? When I won a division race, I had no idea how much I won until the check showed up a couple weeks later. Also, a recent Stock winner posted on here to ask how much he had won the weekend prior.

There aren't many races that can get away with a $160 entry for a mystery payout!

I've also lost in the semis and agree that not covering your entry there is a complete scam!

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

The sad part is what the track took home doesn't even pay for 1/4 of the taxes they pay per month. Like I said when you have politicians who are not making a dime off the track and are not "car guys" they will do everything and anything to make it so high that they can't do improvements and put the place out of business so they can build the next big shopping mall or business park or housing development.

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

Teddy, the key word is YOUNG....after a while the whole NHRA thing just wears on you. They just flat take the FUN out of this sport. You remember FUN, the REASON we all started racing .....But it takes YEARS to get to that point. This Midwest Class Racers deal ...I think they are really onto something ....

Re: Tech Card Fee,....Lane/Payout Fee
 

I have a copy of that flyer too in my records from 1998, along with the envelope containing my returned check and nice letter from the Runnings explaining the race was cancelled due to lack of interest, still a sore subject for me.
I attended the Loose Rocker Race at Kil Kare Michael referred to above and believe me there are still a lot of folks out there young and old that want to race and will support a hardcore race at a local track. Best racing I've seen in a long time. I've been part of putting on a combo race at that same track and we were never able to get more than 26-28 cars no matter the entry or payout and half the field were NMCA Nostalgia Cars.