Broken Torque Converter
 

My S/S car will normally leave with the wheels up about 3 feet. This year, when I let off the transbrake button, the car stumbles out about 3 car lengths, then runs strong to the finish line. MPH is about normal, but et is off .5 seconds. I tried leaning the primary, leaning the secondary, float height adjustment, different rpm. The car responds to the changes, but both mph and et adjust together. The same .5 delay remains. One racer described it as sounding like it stays on the 2 step for awhile after the leave, but I can't see anyway that is possible. Does the broken torque converter idea fit? Any other ideas?

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

If it's a Q-Jet car, make sure the secondary rods are sealed. Sounds like a spill-over problem. Regards, Danny.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

If it drives off like a STREET Car,then runs strong to the finish line, I would definitely change converters. Been there ...Done that.....M.J.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

A converter will not cause a stumble. At least I haven't seen one do it in about 35 years or so. It will make one lazy, but not a real stumble.

As Danny said, it sounds a lot like a carburetor problem, both the Q-Jet and the Holley carburetors do it, but for different reasons.

It can also be one of any number of electrical problems, a connection, a loose ground, I've even seen a battery do it because a plate came loose. I've seen an oil filled coil do it, too.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Hold the T brake on or put it in manual 3rd and hold the foot brake, and flash the converter.
If it goes up to near where it should be.. most likely not a converter issue.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

A few years ago when we had my wife's stocker we had the same issue. Started stumbling real bad. Changed everything but the MSD two step module. Took the one out of my car problem fixed. Put her's in my car same problem. Just a suggestion if you have one of these modules.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Could be a broken stator support.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Owen ,Not if it stalls up where it should be.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Thank you for the responses, everyone. A couple more pieces of information: The engine is a 400 Chrysler with a Thermoquad. The carb had set for virtually 15 years while I ran a different combination in the car. Last fall, we ran it on Jeff Roell's chassis dyno. I would bring it up to 3000 rpm, then stab it and hold it to 7000. It seemed to run well. I took it to the track and on the first run, it was about a tenth slow in 60 feet, ran hard to about 150 feet from the finish line, and nosed over. The next run, I turned the two step (dial) up from 3400 to 3800. It ran about .3 slow in 60 feet, then ran more strongly to the finish line, and nosed over again. The last run, I put it up to 4400 rpm. It pushed through the beams, ran .3-.4 slow in 60 feet, ran strong again to about 150 feet from the finish line, and broke up a bit.

Over the winter, I raised the float levels and made a few other changes that the small T-Quad liked on the 318. That puts me to where I am today. I can't say that I watched the tach off the line, but I would say that the rpm stays low (3500-4000) before it comes to life. I DID watch the fuel pressure, and it remained steady.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

After further review, I would definately change the carb....Been there ..Done that...Lol.!! M.J.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Greg,
Try changing the coil spring that controls the air valve. Over time they loose their tension and the air valve will flutter and not operate smoothly. Once it's open all the way the problem goes away. While your at it, check the dash pot to make sure it's not blown. Take the hose off, push it in and hold your finger over the hole in the nipple the hose goes on and if it opens the thing is junk.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

First, thank you for everyone who has been trying to help me with this problem. I took the car to Lebanon Valley today. I have an MSD 7AL2 ignition box, with built in two step (2 ports for chips). I use an MSD dial for the low rpm, with a range of approximately 3000 to 4600. I unplugged both ports. I tried to foot-brake it to 3000 rpm, but it pushed through the beams. Still, I floored it, and it once again left like a slug.

On the second run, I hooked the low rpm dial back up. I thought about the secondary air door. Years ago, with the 318, we took the hood off the car, and I had my cousin run the car up on the transbrake/two-step while I watched the carburetor from beside the car. I noticed that the secondary door was opening on the two step. That being the case, I wired the secondary door open, and cautiously started the car. It actually seemed to idle a bit better. It ran a slightly better 60' (still .25 slow), and matched its best run last weekend, but with slower mph (worse air this weekend).

For the third run, I put the 318 carb on (small T-Quad). About the same 60', still running like a slug, but with a slower ET and MPH.

After staring at the car, trying to decide what to try, for half an hour, I put the big T-Quad back on. I disconnected the dial rev limiter, and put a 3400 rpm chip in. When the tree started down, I stopped watching it and focused on the fuel pressure to verify what I have posted. It stayed rock steady; no varying by more than 1/4 of a pound. The car once again left like a slug, although I can't say that it was necessarily breaking up on any of this week's runs. As soon as I had verified the fuel pressure, I let off the throttle, pulled it into 3rd gear, and stabbed it again. It slowly climbed from below 4000 rpm to just above 5000, then seemed to come to life and start running well. It wasn't breaking up. It was almost like lugging a diesel engine. Based on everything that has been said, I'm thinking torque converter again. Comments?

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

SS 318? What is it supposed to stall at? A lot higher than that, I would guess.
If it doesn't go anywhere near it, it could be the sprag slipping.
How many runs? Years?

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Mark,

The engine in the car is a 400 Chrysler. For the last 15 years, I ran the car (80 Dodge Mirada) with a 318 engine. But now, I have the 400 in it. Just to see if the carb was the problem, I put the 318 carb (small T-Quad) on the 400 for one run, but the car acted similar, only slower. I apologize for not making that clear.

Thanks,

Greg

P.S. The torque converter currently in the car is old. Came with the car. I would say it is 20 years old, but has been setting for 15 years. The trans is a brand new Pro Trans. Less than 30 runs.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Okay.So with a 3.38 stroke, I would say the stall has to be well over 5 grand Yes? No ?

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

this may sound silly but have you checked the timing or your advance.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

At this point, no silly questions, only silly owner that can't figure it out. Yes, timing is set at 38 degrees. I also have a timing retard with a 10 degree chip in it, and when I hit the switch, it shows 28 degrees.

On the chassis dyno last fall, this torque converter showed 5000 stall, and the car would like 5700.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ad-carburetor/


http://www.carbkitsource.com/carbs/t...20-%20AUS.html
if you like to read sometimes it helps kick start my brain

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

pm sent

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Sounds like a broken stator support or converter.A broken stator stator support will act just like you are describing.I broke one in a pro trans and one in a turbo 200.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Can someone tell me if a 200 and a 200r4 stator support is the same and is it just a bolt in part?? Thanks I think we hurt something in our car this weekend and acts the same as above -- will not leave and last week was pulling tires 2 feet in the air.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

They are not the same. 200 has a support that is an integral casting to the pump cover, and the 200-4R has a press fit and bolted in support. The spline is the same though.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Daran, Call Leo at Remac in San Dimas. He can probably get you fixed up.

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Greg, If the converter is that old, it could probably use springs and rollers in the sprag anyway.
Could be chewed up and not holding well.
I would say you ought to eliminate that variable at this point.

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Could you put a stick in it Greg? No more convertor drama.....Might want to keep that protrans for the Superbee,or is it a road runner, I get them confused. Eric

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

O.K., it finally sunk into my tiny pea brain this morning that while the stator is in the torque converter, the stator SUPPORT is in the transmission. Therefore, it is conceivable that the change of converter possibly wouldn't fix the problem. I do now have a new converter ordered. What is involved in changing the stator support? If it is broken, will I see it?

Eric, I'd love to drive a stick car. I just don't know that I want to MAINTAIN one. The Stocker is a Super Bee. The bracket car is a Road Runner, but I don't think you've seen that.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

If the stator support is not obviously broken, try turning it with a big pair of channellock pliers. If it won' turn, it's not broken. Assuming you have a 727 in the car, I've never seen a 727 stator support break or spin out.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

:D Here, here!! Give that man a beer!

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Eric, I'd love to drive a stick car. I just don't know that I want to MAINTAIN one.

The myth of a stick car is just that. With the modern clutches and trans maintenance is minimal. I see more guys covered in auto trans fluid cussing their convertors or sprags than any stick shift guy. But with the herd mentality most guys run autos.

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It's even worse than that, Rod. I have an electric shifter!

Seriously, I would like to drive a stick. Even though the transmissions are much more reliable, due to the fact that you set the clutches up so softly today, I thought the slippage required continual adjustment. I will say "Someday, maybe."

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

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Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Greg...were you trying to make E-town for class? Can you switch to the Stocker until the Mirada is ironed out?

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

If you want to run on kill, that fine line of pre-slippage is what everybody talks about. However, if you want to go rounds, you do not have to run it there. There is less than .05 difference between the "kill" setting and the soft setting that allows you to go 5-7 rounds consistently without having to readjust. Material of the discs makes a difference, too. Buy from knowledgeable vendors who will help and keep a good log book.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

The converter was the problem. ATI supplied me with a new converter. I had to fly it in to get it for Friday. Still, from faxing in an order on Sunday to them shipping it on Thursday seemed like pretty fast service. And they were swamped with business. I think being a Classracer helped.

Next question: Is the broken converter worth keeping for any reason, or should I just throw it in the scrap iron? It isn't really correct for my current applications, but you never know. Or is it better to just start from scratch once one is broken?

Clutch question: So, is "fast" set up tighter or looser than "bracket mode". If you have to adjust it every 5 to 7 runs, how long will it last? Most of this is just for curiosity.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Hey Teddy yacavone, it was the converter after all..IMAGINE THAT....LOL....M.J.

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Greg,
Loose is fast, but also on the edge of sliding it too much and glazing the disc. That requires disassembly and knocking the glaze off the disc. Adjusting a clutch with the right bellhousing can be accomplished in less than 10 min. It takes longer to get the car in the air. You also do not have to adjust the clutch that often, in my experience. I have over 200 passes on my clutch and have yet to have it serviced. Every off season I pull it and check everything and bead blast the discs to clean it. It is then that the discs and pressure plate are checked for how much material has been lost on the disc, and the pressure plate is shimmed to accommodate the disc wear, if needed. There is a little bit more to this but that kind of narrows it down.

Sean

Re: Broken Torque Converter
 

Greg,

Always , keep it for a spare ? Have it set-up close to what you are running now... If you had a good spare, you won't have been down for as long as you were ? A good core is worth $ 2-300 & most Convertor guys can do wonders with broken ones ..... Hope all is well & Good Luck @ NED ....