B/PS lt1 formula
 

I am building a 93 formula with an lt1 for pure stock ihra and I am looking for some opinions on Torque converter and rear gear for that combination. As far as the converter, What stall range should I be in? RPM range of the engine is probally only 5500. Advantages, If any, of having the lockup disc in the converter. The transmission is a 4l60. What rear gear is suggested? I was thinking of a 4.10 or 4.56 with 28" tall tires. . Thanks

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Well you came to the RIGHT Place..

Another person is preparing a 93 Camaro on Class Racer.
Bullet has a Pure Stock Cam and Spring Package that will pass tech.
Even that it is about done by 6000rpm..

I am adding a Yank PT 4200 replacing my Yank SS3800 Converter.
Since my car is driven to the meets they are locking converters.

4.65 gearing with 28 inch would work well.
Would spend the money to get a complete Moser Rear.
The small 7.5 inch rear is ok at stock power levels.

Send pictures of your ride and will post it on the PhotoGallery.

Dan

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Are you going to be tuning the ecm also? I think I am going to get tuner cats ?

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

The '93 has a removable chip. You would also need a device programmer, and eraser.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

I guess the way I am reading the website, It comes as a package with the burner, Tuner program, and everything that is needed.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Have TunerCat for 94 and 95 PCM..

Also use Byran Herter at PCMforLess.

They have a Dyno Facility near Quaker in Ohio and Farmington in North Carolina.

May want to ping Ed Wright on the Class Racer

D

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

I'd speak to the man Ed Wright who posted above.
He is very knowledgeable from what I have read here.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

1993 was the only year that had a 700-R4 (4L60) but not the "e" version. Also the engine did not use a MAF sensor. When did IHRA drop the requirement that the correct part number camshaft be used ?

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

They may very well have a package like that.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

I do not know that answer on the camshaft.
Mike Baker confirmed the rule in the IHRA book.
And model cam for my Impala SS

D

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

I should have read the rule book before I commented on the camshaft question. The rule is " aftermarket cams allowed per horsepower claimed. Must check on or under factory specs for lift, duration, and overlap. "

This is like how NHRA stock class rules were back in the early 80's . That information along with the checking clearances was in the engine specs. Now all that is checked is lift. The duration, overlap, and checking clearances are not published anymore. I would bet NHRA doesn't even require that info from the OEM's , just the lift .

I remember back awhile a guy was trying to race a car in Pure Stock, and asked where to get those specs. I don't remember if he ever got a resolution.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Morning Russell,

I am the guy building the 93 Z-28. Just getting started as a matter of fact. Bought the car from a local guy who was already racing it in no-e here at home. All it has is a mail order chip in it. According to Jim Woods it is a natural C/PS although I plan on dropping down to D. I don't think I could get it light enough to really be a factor in B. As it sits its 100 lbs over for D mainly due to the nut behind the wheel, me. When my son takes over we will be good for C. This car is for him when he is done with JR's next season. I just bought an FTI 3800 stall converter and lock-up eliminator kit (Sorry Dan. Good friends w/ Greg and Troy Williams @ FTI and they made me a killer deal). Lock-up removes 6 lbs of rotating mass from the converter and this car wont see much if any street time. I was looking for more stall but with a max power @ around 5500 more than one guy felt like it would be to close to power levels on the shift fall back. I plan on putting in 4.10 gears and have some headers coming. I will use some small flowmasters and put dumps under the car. This should make a tad bit more power but more importantly cuts 50 lbs of junk removing the X pipe/cats/over the rear exhaust. The car runs 9.oh's and teens in the eigth right now so I need 7 tenths just to play since D has an 8.50 index. Hoping to make the IHRA race in Lakeland in a couple weeks but time is running low and I am busy as a 1 armed paper hanger. Plan on getting converter in and all a/c heater stuff out next week. I'll keep you posted and look forward to checking out your build.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

THANKS kenny, That is some Great information. I was kinda looking at the same converter, but wasn't sure of the stall. I was leaning towards 4.10 or 4.56. I am still gonna use 7.5 rear axle but weld axle tubes, rear support and some other modds that some of the mustang guys do. As far as the exhaust, right now I have shorty headers with a aftermarket y pipe. Gonna do some research on what I can do there. I think I am going to leave a/c on cr for now. Just so I can make weight and cool off. What wheels are you going to run? I am unsure of the rear back spacing I should get. But I may get some 16" so I can put drag radials on the rear. Thanks for the info from Everyone and Keep it coming. It makes me think a little hard!!!

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

GM sells a A/C delete pulley that replaces the A/C compressor. PN 10115875 .

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

russelauto1
I have converter you may be interested in,is vigilante was in LS car w/4L60E,I think will fit 700R4 also, they rate it 3800-4200 is a non lock up has maybe 15 street miles since new,still has white grease on neck from install. can look for serial # if want more info.
will sell for 375.00 if interested call me 606-678-3039 shop 606 278 0601 cell
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

No Problem Kenny:
Having drivability issues with mine.
Want to make Lakeland too by taking the Auto Train to Sanford.

You made the better choice.
There are a whole lot of local guys my converter would work better for.
FWIW.. with a IHRA approves cam you could have gone to 4200 stall.
However if the 3800 stall if it flashes to 4600 you will be fine..

Dan

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

B/PS? Who in the world would want to run that? :D

Contact Mark Kent at GM about the cam specs. IHRA didn't have any for our car so we emailed him and he was kind enough to send us the OEM #s. I then sent those to Mike Baker and he approved the car for Pure Stock. Then gave those numbers to Bullet and they ground us a nice cam. With changing the cam and adding 1 & 7/8" headers we picked up more than 5 tenths.

Also, don't be afraid to put a converter and gear in it. We have a Yank SS4000 because I found one almost new for about half of what they cost. It's a great converter but it's a street converter. When I get ambitious I'm going to try to get it loosened up to 5000. We also put a 3.90 gear in the car because it was a DD at the time. They only go to a 4.10 on the gear for these cars and I wish I had that. We run a 28" tire. I believe with a 5000 TC and a 4.10 gear I could pick up even more. If I had an LT1 car (and I have had those) I wouldn't hesitate going with a 5000 converter and a 4.56 gear with a 28" tire.

Where are you located?

Scott

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Thanks for the information. Would you still go with a 5000 converter if the engine redline is 5700? I know there is more to it than say a 5000 stall. We used to run 5200 8" converters in j/sa firebird with a 305. I guess it was no different back then! I totally agree with the gearing and that high of a stall.
When you got the camshaft from Bullet, What was different about it? Duration? CL? Oh yea, I'm in ohio.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

This isn't a Russell as in the Gary Russell family from East Sparta is it?

I'd have to look at my cam card but the lift and duration were the same as stock and I do recall the CL being different. I can honestly say with the new cam down low the car is a different animal. Our best 60' (with "only" the 3.90 gear and a DOT drag radial) is 1.53 in poor DA with a crappy prepped track. When you call Bullet ask for their Stock Eliminator cam guy John. And yes, they'll get it to run past 5700 so I would go with that loose of a stall.

Scott

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

No My name is aaron and I am in Columbus Ohio. Thanks for the info. I am gathering parts right now for the car. Headers are coming, Will call bullet in a few weeks after we get the engine out of the car. That is an Awesome 60 ft time.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Contact PCMforLess they can Dyno your car.
They are not far from Columbus, close to Salem.

Bullet also has a set of IHRA legal Springs for the cam..

D

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Hey Aaron, You are welcome and I'm excited I'm not alone in this endeavor! I bought some 15 x 8 Weld Pro Stars off a member here. Have a 5.5" backspacing and fit perfect. A 15 x 10 with a 7.5" backspace also fits. I used some regular 15 x 4 frontrunners on the front although my wheels had 27" Goodyears and they look like tractor tires! LOL! Going to get some 25"-26". On the rear I have MT 275 street radials. Great tires and they hook really good with this setup. The front wheels will require a 5/16" spacer to clear the calipers. My rear calipers were already ground on to fit the 15's. 15's are nice cause there are some X275 guys local and I can get their takeoffs for cheap. I don't think you will need to keep anything to make weight, in fact I think you'll need to gut everything possible. Your minimum weight in B/PS will be 3005lbs with you on board. I'm pretty sure it would be impossible to get that light with all the pure stock required stuff on there. C/PS would be 3320 lbs. Im shooting for D/PS with a minimum race weight of 3635. As it is my car with my fat *** in it is quite a bit over that. Im nervous about the factory rear. I have some buds who are Camaro guru's. All of em said the factory rear will start giving me fits when we get down into the 1.70/60/50 shorty times. This car might eventually be a crate motor car so although I don't want to spend the coin right now, a 12 bolt is in its future. Look up LS1tech.com. More Camaro/Firebird info than you will ever need. One thing that I found REALLY useful, in the racing section there is a sticky for all weight reduction parts and just about everything you can gut and what it weighs. Get BUSY Bro!

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

1/2 a second from a cam and headers is AWESOME!!! What is your car rated at for hp Scott? What et's and mph do you run. I have a bud with a late model LS1 vette he built into an NHRA legal stocker with mainly just bolt ons. Runs quite a bit under the index. REALLY peaves the stocker guys when he drives it into the racetrack and goes waayyy under and goes rounds.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

PS; Do some homework before you buy a converter, I was looking at a couple used Yank units but all were for an LS motor. Was told x2 that an LS converter wouldn't fit a LT1. Pad spacing or ??? different.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Here is my Engine with a Secret Velocity Stack..

Can you identify it?

D

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

350 is the factory HP and I believe it's at 345 now with NHRA/IHRA. At one time recently I think it was 340. The AFHS is very, very favorable in the C5. Our best ET is 11.74 @113 on a 12.45 index. That was at about 2000' DA and 150 lbs. heavy for B. My wife has been putting runs on the car and she is 140 lbs. lighter than me. I know in good air with her in the car it will run in the 50s and 60' 1.4x. Our goal is to be 1 second under and I don't think we are far from there in good air and on a properly prepped track.

Is Jeremy Preston who you're speaking of? We still have AC, legal plates, etc. on ours and could easily drive it out the gate and home if needed.

Scott

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

I use to remember getting those for the LT1s Dan at my local plumbing supply store. Always got a funny look when you told them what it was for. :D

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Yes sir, Jeremy is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to late model FI cars. Luckily I have him and 3-4 other buds to help out my learning curve. All of us are pretty serious racers dabbling in late model cars for stock and or no-e/no-box bracket racing. I looks like this will be a fun experience. I really like you vette and if this turns out right might consider doing one in the future. I'll need another one when my 13yo is done with JR's.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

SWEET! I have one of those in my kitchen right now! Wonder if momma will miss it?? LOL! How much was that worth Dan? As quirky as these things seem I wouldn't be surprised if it picked you up a dime.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

The Last time I replaced the garbage disposal.
It came with a new Drain.
Noticed the Drain was 3 inches. Remembered the B-body MAF was 3 inches.
Used a coupling from the original First and Second base intake set up.
Fit like it was designed that way.

Do not know if it adds HP. But leans in that direction.
At the track it gets a lot of big smiles.

D

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Jeremy and I have spoke several times and I actually have a list of mods he suggested that I have written in the back of my log book. I was sorry to see him sell his Stocker. He's been a big help to me as I gather parts for this car. When your son/daughter is ready for a C5 look us up ... I'm sure by that time we'll have this one sorted out and ready to move onto to something else. I've always wanted a small tire big cubic inch nitrous muscle car that ran 9s. Maybe we can work something out then.

Scott

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

The LS converter has a much higher overall height, plus the bolt pattern is larger.

You can adapt the LT1 converter to an LS, but not the other way around. LS is too long to retro fit it .

You can buy an aftermarket flex plate or drill the LS one to the early b.p. and extend the pilot to use an early converter with an LS .

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Dan, I'm not trying to toss any "garbage" your way, but is that legal in Pure Stock? In the past traditional stockers have had "non-OEM style" air filter bases questioned by Tech (at NHRA events at least), and I would think Pure Stocker rules would be even more restrictive. Don't shoot the messenger; just trying to avoid a spike in the sale of garbage disposal parts followed by a bunch of Pure Stockers being told to take them off.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

YES it is legal.
Been to many IHRA ProAM and Jam events..
Gone through inspection...NP. The Tech guys just smile.
When I go home replace it with a Cone Filter.

Want one :D

Dan

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

so what is the difference of 4L60 and turbo 350 spline count

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

No difference in count ..both 30 spline ..Difference is in the length
Stator support shaft...all the same in modern GM transmissions ..Again, different lengths and placement

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

While the spline count is the same, at 30, there are differences in the turbine shaft. The majority of the 700-R4 transmissions used a "298 mm" torque converter. The turbine shaft has a stub and an o-ring on the end close to the engine, the splines are closer to the transmission end. Most of the car transmissions used that combination, even the early LS engines. The trucks with LS engines got a "300 mm" converter. The turbine shaft has the splines closer to the engine end and a journal and o-ring between the spline end and transmission. The basic converter to flexplate spacing is the same between the 700-R4 (4L60-e) and the 350/400 THM transmissions. The later 4L60-e with the 300 mm converter is different and would require a different flexplate , and a spacer for the crankshaft to converter pilot.

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

So approx how much pilot extension and most4L60 and 700 have what some would call an enertia ring, some having dual bolt pattern. Beleive my LS flywheel is dual pattern also

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Maybe Russ ( SS3011 ) has that info handy.

Someone must make a crank adapter and spacer kit by now??

Re: B/PS lt1 formula
 

Just curious as approx. When I drop the trans tomorrow (Sunday) will measure it for myself. Having my lathe sure comes in handy. Thanks for the info so far