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js72mav 08-26-2013 06:08 PM

Crank Trigger
 
Wondering what the pros and cons are of using a crank trigger over a billet distributor? Does one make your car faster than the other, or is one just better for the valve timing, etc.

Thanks!

Mike Taylor 3601 08-27-2013 08:34 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
The crank trigger should give you more stable timing than dist.. I have dynoed w/both I never have seen real power difference,however if you have mechanical advance in dist. and timing is not stable,can see timing marks moving around bouncing,not staying steady when advanced it will hurt power,and can be fixed usaully by locking advance,take dist gear off ,shaft out,under where weights are there is nut that takes 11/32 wrench remove it w/bushing and rotate 180 degrees where there is hole that stud will fit through and reinstall nut and reassemble dist.
One advantage I see w/crank trigger is when using alot of retard,like with nitrous is that you can phase rotor when timing is retarded.
There maybe some power in crank trigger,but have seen alot change and not go any faster.
Crank trigger or dist. won't have any effect on valve timing,they will only effect ignition timing.
Mike Taylor 3601

js72mav 08-27-2013 09:06 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Thanks Mike!

201250 08-29-2013 08:06 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
I am no expert on this subject, but I can give you feedback when I changed to one. Mike is right when it comes to the stable nature of the crank trigger. The marks were very stable, which allowed for small adjustments to be made. The other change I made at the same time was installing a Jessel Belt drive. You cannot believe how stable the entire valve train was. Quieted the noise and vibration completely. No numbers to back it up but the engine was making more power. This was a big block Mopar.

Terry

1320racer 08-30-2013 07:45 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
All I can tell you is claims of more stable timing aside, my 950HP engine, turning 8000 in the lights in my nearly 3200 lb. ride that makes 250+ passes a season, prints time slips WITHOUT a crank trigger and no belt drive either.

buzzinhalfdozen 08-30-2013 01:23 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397122)
All I can tell you is claims of more stable timing aside, my 950HP engine, turning 8000 in the lights in my nearly 3200 lb. ride that makes 250+ passes a season, prints time slips WITHOUT a crank trigger and no belt drive either.

Nope, crank triggers are no good the OE manufacturers spent millions of dollars putting crank trigger initiated ignition systems on their engines for no reason. There is no doubt you can run a dist. ignition system on a race engine, ran mine to 10,000 + rpm using one. I now use a coil near plug system with a 60 tooth crank trigger to REALLY know where the timing is. When you are taxing an engine a lot you need the very best control over your timing. Put a timing light on an engine using a dist. then put it on a crank triggered engine and tell us what you see. I already know but try it. My .02 And BTW it's not a "claim" it's FACT

Chad Rhodes 08-30-2013 05:52 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buzzinhalfdozen (Post 397203)
Nope, crank triggers are no good the OE manufacturers spent millions of dollars putting crank trigger initiated ignition systems on their engines for no reason. There is no doubt you can run a dist. ignition system on a race engine, ran mine to 10,000 + rpm using one. I now use a coil near plug system with a 60 tooth crank trigger to REALLY know where the timing is. When you are taxing an engine a lot you need the very best control over your timing. Put a timing light on an engine using a dist. then put it on a crank triggered engine and tell us what you see. I already know but try it. My .02 And BTW it's not a "claim" it's FACT

Pay him no attention. He's a know it all blowhard, that's well past wearing his welcome out here

Ed Wright 08-30-2013 06:05 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes (Post 397263)
Pay him no attention. He's a know it all blowhard, that's well past wearing his welcome out here

Really Chad? I have been looking to him for advice!! LMAO!!

He still can't find the et bracket section. LOL

SStockDart 08-30-2013 09:34 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397122)
All I can tell you is claims of more stable timing aside, my 950HP engine, turning 8000 in the lights in my nearly 3200 lb. ride that makes 250+ passes a season, prints time slips WITHOUT a crank trigger and no belt drive either.

disregard....not worth my effort

Pedigo Perf 08-31-2013 11:19 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397122)
All I can tell you is claims of more stable timing aside, my 950HP engine, turning 8000 in the lights in my nearly 3200 lb. ride that makes 250+ passes a season, prints time slips WITHOUT a crank trigger and no belt drive either.

Where can I get a time slip printer for my car?

Jeff Lee 08-31-2013 04:43 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedigo Perf (Post 397409)
Where can I get a time slip printer for my car?

You don't need one. Come up with some numbers on your own, post them on-line and eventually they will become fact. Happens all the time.

Bobby Fazio 08-31-2013 08:12 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
What about if your motor lives in the 8500+ rpm range would it be better to have one? We both run 289 I run the trigger and he doesn't but both cars are very consistent.

Jeff Lee 08-31-2013 11:42 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
If you really have a race car where every .001 counts, and the rules allow a crank trigger, you should have one. The simple fact that a crank trigger is more stable, it has to be, should tell you there is something there.
Personally, I believe if someone that has never tried one, but denounces them, have no business saying you don't need one. For all they know, their car could be faster with one installed. But they'll never know...

From my own experience, the two best things I can say about going from Stock to Superstock, aside from the extra 100 HP, was the shaft mounted T&D rockers over the OEM stamped steel rockers and the crank-triggered ignition. Both made the car more stable in their job and the result was a smoother running engine. And I probably have a better distributor system than most in Stock in areas that promote more accurate secondary ignition triggering than most out there.

In my opinion, there is no way a crank-triggered ignition system CAN NOT be better than a distributor triggered system. You throw a timing chain in there, cam twist and or flex, meshing of two gears, oil pump issues, valve-train issues (spring pressures, harmonics, etc.), etc.,....I'm all ears if you think you can convince me the crank-trigger ignition is "maybe as good but not better" than a distributor triggered ignition.

My new ignition is for Stock and I'll be using an ICE Ignition which is a hall-effect system. I don't hear much about that but I believe it is a better system than the monkey see, monkey do MSD system. But I could be wrong. But I will test both systems on the dyno. Then I will know, not guess.

Maverick 09-01-2013 05:40 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
I always ran a billet distributor for years with a curve in the distributor, and I finally went to the crank trigger and programmable ignition before I started this season. Had to have some machine work on my crank mandrel to fit the wheel on the front of the balancer, and also upgraded the ignition boxes. I picked up a lot. Too much in fact. I run the car in super gas and I don't run a throttle control, I change the shift points for the five speed, using a automated programmable shifter. It was too fast for what I was trying to do, and then I retarded the timing to slow it down, and that worked ok, until, the weather changed big time. Still trying to come up with a programmable curve, so I can control things the way I want. Got close this last two weekends, but then started spinning the tires when it got real hot. Crank triggers are a little bit more expensive, but you can do a lot more with them. I will never go back to a distributor controlled ignition, unless it is on the street car that I am trying to get back to.

1320racer 09-01-2013 07:18 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Unless the op is racing Pro Stock, Pro Mod, Comp Eliminator or turning 9000 RPM in a super stocker looking for that last .01, a crank trigger is worth NOTHING on the time slip compared to a properly functioning locked out billet distributor.

Jeff Lee 09-01-2013 11:42 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397550)
Unless the op is racing Pro Stock, Pro Mod, Comp Eliminator or turning 9000 RPM in a super stocker looking for that last .01, a crank trigger is worth NOTHING on the time slip compared to a properly functioning locked out billet distributor.

You don't know what your talking about. You read it or heard it somewhere and now it is gospel to you. And I'm sure about now you'll tell us you tried one and it didn't help.

Ed Wright 09-01-2013 12:46 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee (Post 397600)
You don't know what your talking about. You read it or heard it somewhere and now it is gospel to you. And I'm sure about now you'll tell us you tried one and it didn't help.

Jeff, he is a bracket racer that doesn't even build his own engines, but he knows more about all this stuff than we do. He can't run faster than the shoe polish number if he has a heads up. No need to chase hundredths. Just change the shoe polish. He knows just about everything, except how to find the et bracket section here.

killintime6968 09-01-2013 02:42 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
I am surprised he has not commented on Mexjoe's broken crankshaft ordeal.

1320racer 09-02-2013 07:57 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 397615)
he is a bracket racer that doesn't even build his own engines

you really think you're special. Newsflash, it's the year 2013 not 1963!

Over the next 4 months, Tilburg's, Gulius's, Watters's, Patterson's, Bischoff's and other's engine shops phones will be ringing off the wall and their shops full of the engines for and from the biggest and winingest names in class racing just as will Sunset's, Reher Morrison's, Par's, Shafiroff's, Schimdt's and others with their shops full of and building engines for the who's who of super comp, gas, street and bracket racing and you think you're special cause your "build" your own. Too ****** funny! :D

The truth is YOU buy your engine parts just like I do and the vast majority of class and bracket racers do, you pay a machine shop to do your machine work just like I do and the vast majority of class and bracket racers do...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 362654)
Starting on my last engine... Just getting too old for this *****.
Hauled the new Bowtie block up to Patterson's today for machining , and ordered pistons & rings.
Going to lighten the crank a tad.

you pay to have your engine dyno'd just like I do and the vast majority of class and bracket racers do so If your claim to fame is that you clean your parts, apply some assembly lube, check/set a few clearances, gap rings and torque a few bolts have it, all so you can attempt to impress the naive and clueless that you "build" your own engines...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 367536)
When the heads show up I can check valve-to-piston clearance. Then put it together.

don't worry, I won't tell anyone the truth!.:p

Further, last I checked when reading National Dragster, the NHRA doesn't award Wins, Wally's or $$ for those who's claim to fame is they built their engine! Fletcher along with the biggest names in NHRA Sportsman racing don't build their own engines but somehow, he just managed to win his 84th and 85th Wally. ;)

Oh and btw, the vast majority of class and serious bracket racers don't build their cars, carbs, transmissions, converters and headers and neither do you!:p

What I KNOW is what works on the track, showing on the time slip and what just lightens your wallet!

Pedigo Perf 09-02-2013 08:11 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Two Eds, one brain.

buzzinhalfdozen 09-03-2013 08:24 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397550)
Unless the op is racing Pro Stock, Pro Mod, Comp Eliminator or turning 9000 RPM in a super stocker looking for that last .01, a crank trigger is worth NOTHING on the time slip compared to a properly functioning locked out billet distributor.

Let's see he posted the question in the Stock Super Stock tech section. What can we gather from that? Ed if you've never actually ran a crank trigger how can you comment on the pros or cons? As I stated there is NO question as to which system delivers more accurate timing, you make it sound like a crank trigger set up costs $1000 from the guy that claims we all bitch about any little extra costs the rule makers impose on us. Bottom line is if you want the most accurate timing system for your motor, be it a bracket motor or a high end comp motor go with a crank trigger! BTW the RPM of the engine is irrelevant here, the need for good steady ignition events is critical at all engine speeds.

1320racer 09-03-2013 08:34 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Talk about what you know, not what you think you know!

The OP's question was clear and it has been answered.

buzzinhalfdozen 09-03-2013 08:58 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Ed, I've got more experience with ignition systems than you could ever hope to have, I've set up and diagnosed everything from simple points systems to the latest COP based designs. As I've previously stated simply throw a timing lite on a dist. based engine then do the same to a crank trigger engine , if you're not smart enough to operate one I'm sure we could find someone willing to show you. I personally know 3 engineers who design and build state of the art ignition systems for both the OE and aftermarket, none of which would agree with your statements, so I'm assuming they also know nothing? Yes it was answered...incorrectly by you. Your set up is merely a bracket car that any person wih minimal skills can duplicate, we're supposed to be impressed with that...REALLY? Insisting that you are right in the face of all over whelming evidence to the contrary indicates a problem....maybe you should get that looked at.

1320racer 09-03-2013 09:06 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Again, talk about what you know, not what you think you know!

buzzinhalfdozen 09-03-2013 09:21 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Tell me again how fast exactly is this 3000 lb. 950 hp rocket of yours? As for me here's a short run down ASE master tech since 1985 GM master tech since 1988, multi year world class GM tech. Please feel free to share your many technical accomplishments if you like. What you're bragging of accomplishing is equal to shooting a target with a shot gun versus a pistol....very little skill required to hit it.

1320racer 09-03-2013 10:49 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
here's all you need to know, I've been racing nearly 25 years and have more passes by thousands than most that post here and I'm an engineer and make at least 4 times the $ you do so I'm not impressed that you're a "master tech".:rolleyes:

My 3144 lb. MPR built super stock car aka "rocket" that I braket race is both quicker and faster than your junk, running deep in the 8's, and has 60 footed 1.17 leaving off the footbrake with an MSD Billet distributor:p

buzzinhalfdozen 09-03-2013 11:13 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397940)
here's all you need to know, I've been racing nearly 25 years and have more passes by thousands than most that post here.

Oh my 3144 lb. MPR built super stock car aka "rocket" that I braket race is both quicker and faster than your junk, running deep in the 8's, and has 60 footed 1.17 leaving off the footbrake with an MSD Billet distributor:p and I'm an engineer and make at least 4 times the $ you do so I'm not impressed that you're a "master tech".:rolleyes:

Ed, can you be any more vauge....deep in the 8's is meaningless, my "junk" as you call it was built by ME 60's in the high 1,20's (with a motor that's less than half the size of yours) and has been 9.68 @139 + so yeah your stuffs impressive. Oh I was never trying to impress you simply giving you my back ground. As for being an Engineer.... that alone means nothing, apparently you can be an engineer, make what you say is 4 times what I do ....wait for it...AND BE WRONG. There's alot of cars faster than mine that's irrelevant, I've told you before , we'll go Lbs per cubic inch and see what happens. I'm 11 lbs. per cubic inch, you stack on the half ton of weight and get back to me. Your statements make engineers look like idiots, I'm sure they're all very proud! Any possibilty you can go back on the college that gave you the engineering degree and get your money back? Cause they apparently failed you.

1320racer 09-03-2013 11:17 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
CLUELESS, statements from a nobody that thinks he knows!

Jim Kaekel 09-03-2013 11:29 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397945)
CLUELESS, statements from a nobody that thinks he knows!

1320: You calling someone clueless is truly the pot calling the kettle black. You don't even build your own chassis, engine, trans. and yet, act like a know-it-all high school kid. How old are you?

rickseeman 09-03-2013 11:59 AM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Am I on Yellow Bullet?

Ed Wright 09-03-2013 12:01 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Kaekel (Post 397949)
1320: You calling someone clueless is truly the pot calling the kettle black. You don't even build your own chassis, engine, trans. and yet, act like a know-it-all high school kid. How old are you?

Jim, he just told us he is an engineer. LOL

buzzinhalfdozen 09-03-2013 12:04 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1320racer (Post 397945)
CLUELESS, statements from a nobody that thinks he knows!

WOW that degree sure is paying off.As stated I've had extensive training in the in's and out's of ignition systems, there for I can state without a doubt I have a more intimate knowledge of them than you. Not bragging simply fact. Yes I'm most likely a nobody in the grand scheme of things, however I don't make statements about things I'm not 100% sure of unless I state it's merely a guess. I'm in disbelief that an edumacated person such as yourself cannot admit when he's made an incorrect statement, being wrong is a fact of life for mere mortals. Being man enough to admit it simply shows character....of which you don't seem to posess. If you can produce just 1 legitimate argument (other than that's how I do it and it's the only right way) from any ignition system provider to disprove my statements I will most certainly apologise to you and relent that you were in fact correct. Until such time you will continue to be incorrect, simply making blanket statements that are meaningless to anyone and spreading false information. Please try and use that college degree to make a more reasonable response. So start googling for someone to back up your claim....I'll wait.

buzzinhalfdozen 09-03-2013 12:06 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickseeman (Post 397952)
Am I on Yellow Bullet?

No but I think they kicked him to the curb there. BTW was he the all knowing jacka$$ over there too?

442OLDS 09-03-2013 12:16 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 397953)
Jim, he just told us he is an engineer. LOL

NOT taking sides here,but you always having to be more specific when describing someone as being an engineer.

For example,the person that dumps the lavoratories on the airplanes where I work is sometimes called a "lavatory service engineer".NOT a pleasant job.

SSDiv6 09-03-2013 12:32 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 397953)
Jim, he just told us he is an engineer. LOL

Ed, as an engineer, I recognize and respect your accomplishments and work you have done for many years on EFI systems programming and calibration.

Ed Wright 09-03-2013 01:28 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Wow! Thanks!

Jeff Lee 09-03-2013 01:49 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
I posted a few pages back I see NO WAY a distributor based ignition system could be as efficient as a crank-triggered ignition system. Not with all the tugging - pulling - flexing - twisting that's going on. Still haven't seen a response to that statement. And I'm not an engineer. I'm a salesman. That means I know BS when I see it! :p

buzzinhalfdozen 09-03-2013 02:02 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Jeff, don't expect a reply on this as he has no real proof to contradict your statement. As usual he's opened mouth, inserted foot and replying in 1 sentence drible. Perhaps he's feverishly looking for anyone to jump on the short bus with him and come out demanding dist. based igfnition systems be reinstated as the premier ignition...like they were 30 years ago. Remember when you just had to have a dual point dist.? Kinda like that.

Kegracing 09-03-2013 04:39 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 397953)
Jim, he just told us he is an engineer. LOL

Come on guys... let's not make this a racial thing!
I went to college to be an engineer because I thought I would get to drive the train!

Ed Wright 09-03-2013 04:53 PM

Re: Crank Trigger
 
Lol!!


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