Manual Trannys
 

What are the pros and cons of racing a manual ?

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Pro more fun. Con harder on rear gears. ---Trevor

Re: Manual Trannys
 

As I see it would go like this.

Pro's
1) You get your man card back.
2) You actually get to drive the car down the track and not just ride in it.
3) Your wife, girlfriend and or daughter won't want to drive it.
4) One good clutch is equal to 100 convertors.
5) Cost is pretty much equal compared to buying a good auto and a couple convertors.
6) Your car won't leave little puddles of pink stuff under it.
7) Less variables to change with the temperature of going rounds therefore making a stick more consistent than an auto the deeper you go in the late rounds.


Con's
1) You will loose friends at the track when you put them on the trailer with a stick.
2) You will loose more friends at the track when they can't borrow your spare convertor anymore.
3) You will have to become friends with someone that has experience in tuning a clutch. This is to help speed up the learning curve.

I think that's a start. :D

Re: Manual Trannys
 

hi, AMEN lol

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I'll just leave this here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsis4EQeDCE

Re: Manual Trannys
 

LMAO. One more con. You will lose more friends because when you take the starting line with you when you launch and they are behind you and for some reason when they stage in your bald spot (which for some reason always seems to happen) its your fault they spin the tires!

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Every time I watch this video (I was there) it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. One of the best heads up races I've ever seen.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Pro's This ^^^^^^

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My favorite manual trans soundtrack :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kswkSEyOj8

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X100000 That was the highlight of the weekend for me! It doesn't get any better than that.

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That's Cool!!!!

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Kris,
It's gettin close to June,still coming back to US about then?

I have watched that old modified video lots of times,don't hear those sounds,live anymore,the heavy flywheels,dry hops,no rev limiters. ahhhh I love it.

Now back to question pros too many to list, cons none.

Stick's are very reliable and consistent and alot of fun now because of clutch setups that work,I doubt any modified cars in the video had a clutch setup that you could push in without the seat belts on LOL,back in those days a staging duel was decided by who could hold the clutch in the longest before their trembling leg cramped up and buckeled.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Manual Trannys
 

I agree. They are fun, the clutches and transmission choices are flat out good!
Too many think back to what was around 30 years ago.
The trick auto stuff will set you back plenty of cash too. Plus you don't have to go through torque convertor hell testing and sending them back in etc.

The best part is listening to some of the automatic guys that swear that they need an autoshift since their car is too badass to move the shifter one inch!

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=JbdziClJLjU

Troy Henderson's sister Trista racing her Nova in A Stick.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

I'll weigh in on this.
I ran a G stocker with an auto trans on and off for 10 years. I now have a D car with a manual Trans

The Pros
The cool factor of racing one of these cars

You can adjust your light from real red -.050 to as late as you want with the clutch setup. It's all in the adjustments.

You can take power away from the track with a clutch adjustment. Also when a stick car spins it usually dosen't mean the end of the run. When you are on a bad track with the auto it's bend over and hope for the best.

The transmissions are more durable, and if you buy one you can buy either a Gforce or a Jerico and they will run about the same, different gears to make it how you want. Running an auto, If you don't buy a Pro Trans for a Ford or Mopar and at least a very good metric for a GM you will be pissing up a rope when you have to run a car that does. Or leave .13 on the table. If you car spins the tires with one of the mentioned transmissions above it will beat up and eventually destroy the low roller clutch.

The last thing is the clutch. I started running my car in 2011, and when I made mistakes with a clutch and drove through it a few times. I could take it out, sand it, and make the next run no matter what. When you break a converter, you better have a spare or 2, and hope they work.


The Cons

It's much more labor intensive to get one of these cars set up.

If you are a white collar, golf hat wearing drag racer that doesn't work on your own car it is tough to race one of these without being able to fix it yourself.

When bracket racing these they present their own challenges. Clutch heat changes your RT quite a bit.

I think it is harder on an engine with a manual trans than an auto.

Finally, the suspension
With an Auto you can get away with autozone parts in the car and it should go down the track.
With the manual Trans car, you better have good pieces or the car will be tough to drive or get to work.

I've enjoyed my experience racing the stickshift car, and look forward continuing to do so.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Other Pros:
1. When your friends ask you to help change their converter, you can say "I don't know how." (Right, Woodro?)
2. You never smell like ATF or have red t-shirts.
3. No stupid "warm up the converter" rituals.
4. No more having to workout in the gym to get your arms in shape.
5. What does "percentage of slippage" mean?
6. You learn without a doubt who makes the best driveline parts.
7. Clutches are adjustable between rounds; converters are not.
8. You never have to worry about mistakenly putting the trans into reverse after you cross the finish line. (Push in the clutch!)
9. What's a "Park"?
10. You can change the transmission without a floorjack or someone to help you pick it up.
11. If you start losing mph, you know you can't blame the converter.
12. You can drive their car but they can't drive yours.
13. There's always something to do while going down the track.
14. You perfect the "driving a race car with one hand" skill or your life as a racer is really short.
15. Changing first gear ratios is easier and cheaper.
16. The stick racer community is "instant friends".
17. You don't have to worry about throttle response or bog on the starting line, just crank it up a few more RPMs.
18. You can intimidate the hell out of your opponent in the other lane; there's nothing like the sound of a big block at a sustained 7000 rpm to scare the hell out of somebody who is not used to it.
19. The sensation of engaging the clutch at 8 grand on 14x32s is a cosmic experience.
20. Fewer heads-up races.

A Con:
1. You learn without a doubt who makes the best driveline parts.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Living through the "old days" I remember when almost all the cars were 4 speeds, and that doesn't mean overdrive automatics. To me, racing is a 4 speed. An automatic would seem like sitting on your couch watching youtube.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Hey Mike,
Yeah I'll be back the end of May for a few weeks for R&R. If all goes well we could possibly dyno the Stocker motor when I'm home then. But as of right now I'm going to come back over and see if I can make it through the end of the year so the IRS doesn't have their way with me if you know what I mean.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Con:
The wusses in the other lane with an identical car and drivetrain (except they have an auto trans) refuse to allow sticks and autos to run heads up together. I suppose they were the same wusses that street raced 4-speed cars and always asked for a 1 car jump or something.
And most, if not all, of us stick guys are here not because we're trying to hide from a heads-up run, it's because it's fun, challenging and much more satisfying. I haven't spoke to one stick guy yet that is opposed to combining sticks and auto's.

Pro:
Cheaper in the long run. Unless you want an auto trans and buy one trans and one convertor and are satisfied with the results, good, bad or indifferent.
I can leave at 6,000 at a low elevation track or 7,500 up in Denver with the same clutch.

Fun:
Racing a auto car door handle to door handle from start to down track. Now he's at the top of third at max RPM waiting for the finish line and you stuff your trans in 4th, pull ahead and back right into him. The look on his face: priceless!

More fun:
I've shifted in the air on the 1-2 shift and that's down right fun but nothing can top a wheelie then hitting the 1-2 and then the 2-3 while never having the front tires hit the track. I felt like I was having a Bob Glidden moment. Probably more orgasmic than Dwight's BBC 8K launch on 14x32's! But then again, I haven't done that, so who knows?

Re: Manual Trannys
 

All the above and then some.. Just about as much fun to watch as drive!

http://youtu.be/__aLWdTE5iE

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Not everyone that races an "automatic" has it shift "automatically".

Yes,there is no clutch pedal involved when making the shift,but how many 4 speed drivers use the clutch to make the shift?

Re: Manual Trannys
 

I use the clutch!

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Yep. Nobody wants to run behind a stick car. That and all the " man card" BS, "man lever" BS, etc. most of us ran stick cars back when they were harder to drive than now. Just annoying to listen to guys crow about nothing. Most of us know it's not any big deal at all. Just more work. Some of us got old enough diving under that cars is not as easy as it used to be. But, most do hate the starting line torn up. Faster stock cars don't care for bald spots either. I was sitting in the water box behind Jeff Covert's CJ at No Problem last year, saw the whole side of his car due to that lane going bald.
I never knowingly choose the same lane as a stick running ahead of me.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Then it sounds like Ed wouldn't have a problem combining sticks and autos!

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Would not bother me at all. Running next to one is no problem. Behind one in the same lane is another deal. Given a minute or so to adjust the car I can hook on bald spots at least as well as an equal fast stick car. I'm sure there are SS/J cars faster than my auto car. My not knowing of it means nothing. I would still run him heads up. Combine them. It's fine with me. Stick cars are more fun to drive. I made a pass in one a couple years ago. Easier to shift and clutch pedal easier to push than what I raced in the '70s. Like riding a bike. Nothing to driving it. I'm no longer physically up to the maintenance and diving under one for adjustments. All that man this & man that crap is just stupid.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Cons:
-Clutches get hot in late rounds and hit harder, changing reaction time and 60' time.. also makes it harder to pull gears too.
-Shift times vary since you are human and not a timed C02 bottle shifter.
-You argue every race with your dad about how foolish you both are and that you are switching to automatic, until you finally win one then you decide you might stick with it.

PROS:
-The crowd (if there is any) usually roots for you!
-You are up there on Alan Reinharts "Cool-o-Meter"
-That warm fuzzy feeling you get when you put a modified car on the trailer :)

Re: Manual Trannys
 

I completely disagree with the 1st to pro's but I won't get into it because admin will think I'm hawkin' parts.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

if its any consolation ,I ran a g/sa car and couldn't find the tree , the result would be way to close to the red side of the tree,, ,,one of the pros is that reaction time can be adjusted not only by air gap in the clutch, but also with the linkage of the clutch ,, I won the first race I had entered with my stick car with decent reactions times and consistency ,,I had only 12 passes on this combo ,,like mentioned if you a automatic guy/gal you are running radial tires and if those spin its like a top fuel loss of traction ,, stick cars not as bad gmonde

Re: Manual Trannys
 

That's funny Bobby, I havn't seen your reaction times change or you argue with your dad.

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Ed I'll help ya if you switch!

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lol
u no dats right

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Sounds like "smack talk" to me. Whats the quickest you've ever been in a "clutch assisted" manual car?

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Kris,
Sorry to hear about extended time,and yeah,I know all about paying the goverment.

Ed,
You sound bitter,I think a stick would help that you must not be having enough fun in that auto,things like that will make a man grouchy.LOL I'm sure all the comments about manhood etc. are just jokes. I don't think I made any comments that would offend,if so I apologize.
Are you about to get your car runnin?

As far as auto/sticks combined,some classes would be fine maybe in higher classes the lower in the alphabet you get the more advantage a stick would have.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Manual Trannys
 

I have no problem with any transmission. That being said, I've only drove clutch assisted cars, (cars that I actually clutched in between gears), those, to me, being the hardest to drive. Now, Steve Thompson drives the cobalt with a clutchless G-Force, and says it is nothing but an overpriced automatic. And he was, is, one of the best clutch, and shift drivers I've ever seen, and gained less by going clutchless then most. But, clutch cars are quicker then autos, in my opinion.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Very low tens, in 1977, 78, 79, ....
Shifting in the air is no big deal either, was doing that back then too.

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Haha thanks Pat.. come to the trailer more often!

Re: Manual Trannys
 

That one always makes me grin.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

pro manual trans - while driving a race car is fun regardless of your transmission choice, nobody has started a thread on classracer.com to say how cool their auto-shifter works or how much fun it is to race with an automatic. :-)

I have read the statements about the amount of work clutch versus auto, consistency of clutch versus auto but there are enough examples of both cars having success at the racetrack it just comes down to personal choice. Driving a clutch car makes racing a better time at the racetrack for me and thankfully my brother convinced me to try it with our 69 Camaro twenty years ago with our first Jerico transmission.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

I've driven a high 8 second big block , glide , Camaro chassis car and I can tell you , from having driven both.....I have a lot more fun running 9.50s in my small block , Nash equipped Nova. And clutch assisted definately makes it more fun!

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Most rounds with my AMX in D/S @ a National event: Friday qualifying with Class runoffs, Saturday and Sunday Eliminations to final round. 10.62-10:64 ET all three days. If that's inconsistent, I guess I don't know what consistent is!
A good clutch will allow for very consistent ET's. Dwight Southerland told me back in his glory days of racing he had the same experiences with consistency. And that was long before my favorite clutch was even available.
If you want to have a overly tight clutch that is too big / too heavy, then you will break parts and be inconsistent.

Re: Manual Trannys
 

Sounds to me that the biggest con to a manual is lack of knowledge. So for those of you that started from scratch with a manual, how long was your learning curve to start doing things right? Also, how often is clutch maintenance necessary(resurfacing, re-tuning, etc). Thanks