1970 nova motor choices
 

Sorry if this isn't a good question but I have no idea. I'm wanting to turn my nova into a stocker and I've asked before what motor should I go with. I had alot of ppl have told me to claim it as 69 or 71 or 72 and use one of those motors. Now let's say I do that and it gets questioned at race and it's check will I be allowed to race or DQ'D?

Now while choosing a motor I don't have the money to buy one ready to drop in a car. I'm going to have to buy it piece at a time and see if someone could put it together that knows what they are doing. So if I were to choose a motor from 1970 which one would be a good one to use? And what are the best brand parts (pistons, rods, crank, etc) any help would be much appreciated thank you

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

It doesn't say where your located. That could help you a lot with answers. There's guys who probably live close that you could "pick their brain" in person and get some answers on who to use for machine work and assembly.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Too bad you don't want a complete motor Johnny has one here that would fit your needs!
http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=37520

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Terry I'm in the Dallas tx area

Greg I'd love to buy a turn key motor just don't have that kinda of money laying around or I would

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Borrow the money to buy Johnny's, trust me you'll be WAY ahead compared to a lot of trial and error, breakage and still not being able to hit the index.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Well if you are on a Budget, i would build a 350-255 hp or 300hp only difference in the two engines are the cylinder heads. They are a very common combination, lots of people run them and lots of engine builders know them. I suggest you stay away from Big Blocks, as they will eat up your money fast. Good luck, nice to see someone that wants to build a class car.
Jim

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

If you're on a budget, a 255/350 or a 300/350. I'd lean toward the 300/350, but you may find a solid 255/350 for sale.

If you start from scratch, you cannot hope to build a competitive engine for what you can buy one for used from a good running car. There are too many parts to sort through where you may need to buy multiple cores before you get a really good core. You'll also spend a ton on the "learning curve", buying valves, having valve jobs done and redone, buying camshafts, etc.

Buying an engine a piece at a time and getting someone to put it together probably won't happen, and you likely won't find anyone to do it, never mind save any money. When you buy a race engine for a class car, or pay to have one built, you are not just buying parts and paying for labor. You're paying the builder for his knowledge and experience. Knowledge in class racing comes from expensive and labor intensive R&D.

You also need to decide on an automatic or a stick.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Buying an engine by piece is more expensive than buying a complete used motor. I'd work on the chassis, clutch and suspension first and worry about the legal ,trick and or best later. Nothing wrong with a 402 ,
---Trevor

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

We raced a '70 Nova and started with a very budget 396/350hp combo. In the first engine were well used street TRW heavy forged pistons, nothing trick or high dollar just careful assembly, torque plate hone, attention to detail and tuning. In E/SA at 3570 lbs it ran 11.39. The index now is 11.70, so still 3 tenths under with junk. We claimed the car as 1969 and used the parts for that combo. Next year we "stepped up" and bought CP pistons, "stroked" .012" crank H beam rods etc. Eventually, after lots of converters, cams, headers, trick carb and suspension changes our best passes were 10.73 and 121.32mph with a 1.41 60 foot. That car is a pretty good combination, in my opinion, and you could start out as I did with cheap stuff to get the basic combination out to the track. There was another thread the other day "396/325 hp" on here with several sets of heads offered for sale to start with-they are the same casting numbers that are legal. The manifold is an orphan for 1969, you need that specific year I believe, but these parts are not too hard to find or expensive. Bullet could supply a cam, tool steel lifters are $$ but probably safer than the Schubeck/smith ones IMHO. I'd focus on high quality machine work, reduced drag in the short block through careful ring package selection, maybe assemble it yourself if you have done engine work before.
Someone posted earlier, correctly, that it is way cheaper to buy a good engine used than you could possibly build even doing it yourself. I've seen stocker engines on here for $5000., I'm guessing a "name" engine new would be $15,000.-$20,000. carb to oil pan for Chev, more for anything else. It's a great challenge, but to go fast be prepared to spend lots of money, time and effort trying things.
Grant Eldridge
E/SA 6650
National Record Holder 2011

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Question:
Why do most of you guys want this guy to end up in F, G, H /SA ?

He's a beginner on a budget. He'll get his a** handed to him regularly in heads up runs in those classes.
Big block scenario is even worse.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Don't worry too much about the year. I'm having a '70 Nova built (South of Dallas, if interested) and will be claiming it as a '69 to run the 255/350 in G/SA. Luckily, I found a complete Woodrow Josey motor for less then five grand to get me started. Listen to the guys on this site because their experience is invaluable. I have a file from Classracer with inputs concerning most everything in building a car as to what works, what doesn't and what to buy and not buy. If the creek don't rise, I will be out there next year.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Todd is doing right (you must have a couple of good mentors) and everyone has given you great advise. Stay away from the BB if you are on a budget and just starting out. If you insist on a BB go 1970 402 combo. Buddy up with a local stock racer and be a sponge. It will speed up your learning curve.

The 350/255 ( 69) is easiest to make run fast, the 350/300 (70) is a good combo but you have to get a good engine builder to make it really fast. The 350/200 (72) is a great combo, hence Mr. Gray's motor (his Nova is a bad motor scooter). You will have HP and just have to work on the other stuff, converter, suspension, trans, carb, etc

Spend your money wisely, buy great parts and don't think short term. You will spend 3x the amount if you cut corners.

Good luck and I would be happy to share my BB & SB experiences if you would like privately.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

The one big block that would be good would be an iron head 396/375 4 speed, at 385HP, and being a 4 speed, it is a good combination.

They did drop the HP on the 350/300, it is now only 2 higher than the 350/255.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Alan, good grab on the 396/375.. i think the 255 is rated 280 and the 300 is 286? Hell of a learning curve with a stick shift, lol

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

The 255 is at 284, the 300 is at 286. Honestly, with the right help, if he starts with a stick, it's not really worse than an automatic. It keeps him out of a lot of heads up races while he learns to go fast. All of the decent combinations put him in with the fast cars if he runs an automatic, so he has a lot greater chance of drawing a heads up he can't reasonably hope to win. With a 4 speed, he could go a couple of years and not draw a heads up.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

I don't think there's a lot of cars in L OR M/SA in Div 4, is there?

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

I've got a "Woodrow" 350/300 "Spinning assembly" for $ale.... PM me if interested!

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Joe, what was the reason you preferred the '70 402 over the '69 396? We had also looked at that but were concerned about the "flat" 1970 intake manifold, decided to give up the six cubic inches. Maybe that manifold is better than we believed?
Grant

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

I raced a '69 Nova In G and H in 1996-1997.....I bought it from a well known racer who sadly passed away last year. It was a 350/255 with a p/g....Nice car well built but slower than you know what.......Ran 12.0's in H/SA

It was whipped when I got it....Had a wore out Venolia shortblock...

I rebuilt the short.....TRW pistons.....nothing trick in the rings....old cam....not trick lifters.....totally stock heads....nothing trick at all....

Ran 11.80's in G/SA Index was 12.30 back then....

With some more work it could have run around 11.60's back than.....so with todays cams. lifters.....valves....heads and 3 speed transmissions......Well it could run pretty decent with a mostly home built engine.....

The later year low compression engines look better so that would be a better way to go.....and buying a competetive used engine makes a lot of sense.....

A big block combo is going to really cost you a lot of money ...

I would not run the 350/300 hp combos as they were never as competitive as the low compression engines......Not when they were new and not today 40+ years later.....

I raced a 350/295 stick car in 1970 and when the low compression engines( 350/255's) started showing up......well they were almost as fast or even faster than our car back then....

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Grant my memory is that you can use the open plenium manifold on the 70 (same as the 396) and the HP is less than the 396/375. I probably should verify that but long day.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Joe,
Yes on Manifolds.
From NHRA Specs:
24 - Al Manifold 25 - Alt manifold - 3967474,3933163,19131359
Intake Manifold 3933163 with an open plenum (divider cut down) is acceptable as of June 6,2002

I think a couple of years ago, I haven't done it lately, but if you run the actual numbers the compression comes up a little more on the 402.
As for HP See below:

CHEVROLET II - 1970
Cont

402 402 402 402 402
* ** * * **
AUTO STICK
A A A
350 350 375 375 375

9.67 9.26 8.67 8.56
9.84 9.43 8.65 8.65


340 355 395 390 395
7.31.02 7.31.02 7.10.07 2.21.06
405 400 405
7.10.07
Sorry it didn't copy and past very neatly
I also think there might be an advantage in carb /hood clearance over the 70 mod camaro.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Adger and Joe you are correct about the open plenum manifold on the 402. However, I believe Grant was referring to the 350hp motor when we said it was a one year only manifold for 69.
We ran the 396/350 for a couple seasons sparingly. It is a fairly good combo in my opinion. We never spent much time or money on it so it wasn't overly fast. I just finished another 70 Nova that I'm running as a 72 model with the 350/200 engine same as Johnny's. We've only had one real good weekend on it to try and sort the car out. It has good engine pieces but not the most trick by any means and it's capable of -.50-.60 under at the moment. There is still plenty more left in the trans and converter area as well.

Rick

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

Rick and Grant, sorry thought you were talking 402 BB vs 396/375... I have no experience with the 396/325-350. Let you guys who run them comment, you are in a better position.
This is a good segment of posts....

Rick if you want to pm about the 200 combo, love to.... Mine is good not killer yet.

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

If you have not stuck the needle in your arm yet. I would drag that car out by the street and put a sign in it that said free take her away. It's too late for most of us on here we have been shooting this drug in our arm for years and there is just no hope. Save yourself if you can. And I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this drug is not cheap. If you can't be talked out of it I would call Johny Gray and get his motor. It's fast and will save you a lot of money in the end. Good luck

Re: 1970 nova motor choices
 

When you guys talk about building a 1970 then claiming it as a 69, 71 or 72 etc.....does this require making the appropriate trim changes or simply changing the model year on paper. I realize the engine/trans has to be correct for year claimed.
After many years of brackets and 10 yrs. in Top Sportsman, strongly considering building a stocker....and a stick car at that!!