Fuel temperatures
 

Every restriction creates heat. Regulators, bypass filters, elbows, depending on the brand, even fittings . Has anyone checked fuel temperatures between a running fuel system with a regulated pump and dead-headed regulator vs. a bypass regualtor loop style fuel system? i only run a one gallon cell in my stocker. i would assume most run 5 gallon cells, and if so i would figure a change in fuel tempurature would not be that appearant in that situation?

Ian

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

just so you know the rules state a 3 gal. cell minimum. in a stocker, i never understood why, but that's what the book say's

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Maximum, 16 gallons, no minimum.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

When I had my fuel cell built the rule book said 3 gal minimum for SS. Stock is different?

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

It was 3 gallons but I looked in my last printed copy under Stock and there was no mention anymore. But under Super Stock, it does mention that a fuel cell is 3 gallon minimum! I think NHRA has a misprint under Stock but I'm not calling!
Rule or no rule, I can go through 1/2-3/4 galloon from pit to pit. I sure wouldn't want to cut it that close using a one gallon cell. I have a 3.5 gallon aluminum and it's an upright.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Ian, go to this link and make a phone call you wont be dissapointed http://product-engr.com/default.html

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

I've got an old bud that races an Escort and has always had a 1 gallon cell in it.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

None of the responses so far pertain to the question????

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

no answer yet because I doubt anyone has done an actual back to back -- it would take a lot of time and effort. Although, I do have some customers that have "back to backed" competitors' pumps with our comparable pump and have realized a 7 to 9 degree reduction in fuel temp. Having said that, the primary item you should look at.............to decrease fuel temperature in a fuel system, is to decrease the amount of fuel you're "driving" through the system.

Think about this for a minute since you've already listed the obvious restrictions within a given system. If your engine will only consume 50 gph of fuel, why are you killing the system with over 400...........you've got to do something with the excess, either within the pump (let's hope not, but some still use that style pump because a whole 'nother set of issues pop up there) or bypass back to a cell.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Just wandering myself. That's why I posted. Thanks

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Ian, don't tell me you don't just run the AC duct into the trunk to chill the fuel. It is a stocker you run after all. right ;)
Are we any closer to a date for a sit down? let me know

your teacher friend

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

That's just because he is too cheap to buy it 5gal at a time! Jim


.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

I've looked in my rule book collection for the last several years and it does not mention a minimum.

I will be looking more closely at the fuel cell of my opponent from now on.Can you say starting line BURNDOWN? lol.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

it would take you while for me, even with a one gallon cell. I run 1.2 to 1.3 under and only use 1/3 of the fuel in my system for a pass. thats driving up to the lanes late. Starting the car up everytime we have to move forward, burn out, staging last, 1/4 mile run, and driving back to the pits behind the junior dragsters being pulled back. so burn down as you may. i have found the quicker i go, the more effiencient my combo is the less fuel i use.

Thus the reason for the original question. Would lowing the fuel 5 degrees increase effiecinecy? i am far past worry about making horsepower, i am focused on reduced drag and increase effieciency. so far so good, but i am looking for more.

For instance - and no i have not read the rule book yet - maybe i can run a 1/2 to 3/4 custom made aluminum cell with fins on it to help it cool, mount it in front of the rad, run a total of 2.5 feet of fuel line and a really small electric pump. the weight savings should be about 6 pounds total. With the change going from 15 pounds in the rear to 9 pounds in the front i should be able to loose the wheelie bars as well (another 22 pounds). soften the rear shocks, stiffen the rebound on the front and.... well you know just bench racing really... i gotta go and start up the tig welder!

thanks

Ian

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Ian, I think you'd best weld up a straight axle while you're in the mood.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

I was a toyota tech for quite a few years and they eliminated the fuel return line to stop heating fuel in the tank. for emission reasons. I do not know if its the same for drag racing tho since the cars are not continually run and driven. chris

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

This may be wrong ..but isn't there some heat being created any time a fluid is moving? My point being a standing glass of water will freeze below 32 degrees F while water in motion will not given the same temp and duration. Is there a measurable difference between two similar fuel systems with different GPH pumps, and if so what measurable effect will it have on power output? Wouldn't a basic "cool can" negate any unwanted temp increase? Really I'm interested in any data gathered on this.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

It really helps to put the cool can in the bypass line in the trunk only problem is NHRA ban it around 1988 when we doing it in Pro Stock!

QUOTE=buzzinhalfdozen;298856]This may be wrong ..but isn't there some heat being created any time a fluid is moving? My point being a standing glass of water will freeze below 32 degrees F while water in motion will not given the same temp and duration. Is there a measurable difference between two similar fuel systems with different GPH pumps, and if so what measurable effect will it have on power output? Wouldn't a basic "cool can" negate any unwanted temp increase? Really I'm interested in any data gathered on this.[/QUOTE]

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

NHRA currently bans any artificial method of cooling fuel in "most" classes now---some exceptions are the ET/Super and bracket categories---so that means no chillers/cool cans/aerosol sprays/ice cubes etc if ya can artificially cool it below the ambient temperature it is not legal--my understanding of the rules---comp

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Ive put in a request to have this thread moved to the Modified and Competition Eliminator section....LMFAO!!!:D

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Is this right? I still see lots of class cars with cool cans. I took mine off last year when I was running K, trying to get to minimum. I had plans of reinstalling it this winter. I never recall seeing it in the rulebook.......

Wade O

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

From the 2012 NHRA rulebook: Stock Cars: Section 10A, page 4 under FUEL SYSTEM- "One cool can permitted. All fuel system components (regulators, cool cans, etc.) must be installed not less than 6 inches in front of firewall."

Super Stock section says "One cool can permitted." also.

Ryan Walther
Stock 315

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Gentlemen I stand corrected!!!! Comp

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Happens daily to me......

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

I would think cool cans and things like icing the intake would either A) only work if you do it every pass, or B) only work if your set up was not right in the first place. I an looking for a bracket car type of fix. Run it the coolest way possible as often as I can. I run one to two jet sizes rich all year. My engine smokes on start up in the hot summer I'm so heavy on fuel, but the motor stays consistant. I know if I ever end up in heads up race ill need to rejet , but I am thinking, if my fuel was cooler then maybe I could go down in jet size and still be at the same air fuel mixture.

Ian

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Huh!! you lost me at A) lol

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

well, you always here of guys doing all kinds of stuff to their car for the headsup passes. i understand the light weight oil, but to all of a sudden start cooling the fuel, or intake would drastically change the fuel density therefore the need for a jet change...

also, B Aceves - you any relation to Mike Aceves from Hollister California? was a good friend i haven't heard from in about 6-8 years...at the time he was very much into drag cars and drag slot cars. i was going to visit California and stay with him, but it never panned out.

Ian

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Smoking at start up has absolutely nothing to do with jets.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Yes Ian, Mike is my brother and is doing well, now married with two kids lol Small world huh !! Where are you from ? I will pass this info on to him im sure he will get a kick out of it. All his Drag slot stuff is sittin in a box including his world record car. Unfortunate all the tracks in this area are long gone. PM me if you want to chat some more.....thx

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

The lower the fuel temp , the better . Just a few degrees won't make a huge difference in performance , but every little bit helps .
Restrictions in the fuel system will increase fuel temps , but not enough to cause a major loss in performance . Running the fuel line near any source of high heat will have much more of an effect .
As the fuel temp goes down , the density changes . So jet accordingly and then cool the fuel the same way and for the same duration before each run .

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Ian, you don't have to re-tune the car for cold manifolds and cold fuel to help. You are mistaken there. Btw, you need to fix that black smoke at start-up. That tends to wash oil from the cylinder walls, which is a ring seal killer.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

Wade, our tech director told me, about a year ago, I could have a cool can, but I had better not get caught with anything in it during a run. Could use it in the pits, then need to empty it before running.

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

If fuel temps are not important then why are the Alky classes limited to a certain fuel temp and why does every PS team chill their fuel? The alky fuel team I do work for has a freezer in their trailer. They keep more than Chicken Pot pie & TV dinners in it. DuH!

Re: Fuel temperatures
 

It is important. About everybody I know cools their fuel if they have a tough heads-up coming up. Chuck Nelson said not to chill it during a run. I used to use dry ice in the cool can on my '56 Chevy Jr Stocker. I don't have one now, I chill it before like Chuck said to. I have seen the fuel check take a second, kinda puzzled, look at my fuel temp at fuel check, they have never said anything. If they do look at the car, there is nothing to see. I have seen small freezers in trailers, just about right for a fuel jug. I don't have room for one. You shoulda walked through the staging lanes before SS class at Indy. LOL