Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

All-

Let me start out by saying I don't have the means at this point in my life to build a class car, but it will always be a dream of mine to be able to make a go of it some day.

That being said, thank for allowing me to post on this forum.

And to the point...I saved vacation time this year to take off and spend a couple days at Indy to watch stock and super stock. Unfortunately, I was suprised and dissapointed to see how the landscape has changed! What has happen to these class(es)? I went to see the classic wheels up action of CJ's, Hemi's, 427 Ford's, Max wedge Mopars, Camero's, Mustangs, Fairlanes, Novas, Chevelles, etc....where are they??

I'm a Ford guy and I only saw 3 FE powered Fords in both classes. I guess at my age (37), I should be completely turned on by the late model CJ Mustangs and DP Challengers, but that's just not me.

The allure of these two classes has always been the grass roots nature. The fact that it still felt like it was connected to the days when muscle cars were born. I have a tremendous appreciation for what technology has made possible with the new muscle cars, but they're just too far out of reach for me. I'll never be able to afford a new CJ Mustang or Drag Pak Challenger.

Maybe I'm way off base and just don't have a clue what it costs to put a car in Stock, but I always had hopes that I could setup my 69 Mustang or 67 Fairlane with a vintage CJ or 390 GT combo and possibly afford to go stock racing. I know one thing for sure, I don't ever see myself being able to afford the $100,000 pricetag to get started in a new CJ Mustang.

Now it looks kind of hopeless...

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

You should send a copy of your post to Graham Light in Glendora HQ.Maybe if enough fans do so they just might try and get a handle on the monster that they've unleashed.
I think a lot of others feel the way you do.
Thanks for the excellent post.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Build the kind of car you like. Who cares what everyone else does. Its your car. Build what you can afford to build. My car is by no means state of the art. I fact its old as hell. The rear suspension is from the 80's. The paint is from the 80's. But the car is mine and we have fun with it. That's what its about right? Trust me you can spend a fortune on one of these things. I simply can't but I can go out with mine once in awhile and have fun racing it. Good luck.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

the old cars stay home
can"t beat the new ones
why waste money

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

While I am a fan of the old iron also, the fact is its 2011 times change and that is whats happening like it or not. The cost of class racing is expensive old or new so either way you better have deep pockets to play the game.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I don't buy that, not at all. If you do a lot of work on your own stuff, as it should be, it doesn't cost as much. Certainly not as much as a new FX factory race car.

Further, the availability of money is no excuse for what we're seeing. What it amounts to is two specific cars dominating qualifying and several classes in class eliminations, making every thing else obsolete.

I know at least a couple of old school racers who could, if they wanted to, go buy several of the new cars, but they simply refuse to do so. Instead, they stay home, when they'd normally go to several races a year, especially Indy.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

First of all not everyone does there own work. I have seen the bills on the head and intake work alone on some of these cars and it aint cheap. I guess I fail to see the difference in the first guys post about building a car for class racing. If I took an 60's model car and built a class car from the ground up, in the end I bet there would be very little price difference in getting a body in white and building a new car. By the time you disassembled the old car and acid dipped, replaced interior pieces, pulled out factory glass and bought aftermarket because it is lighter all the tricks you do to them to make the old car as nice as a lot of them that are out there it would cost a ton of money. Dont get me wrong I respect the old stuff, hell some of those cars are as nice as show cars, but if I was starting from scratch I know which way I would go.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

The problem is the hp rating . if that was truly corrected there would not be 2008-2012 stockers at all unless the NHRA does what IHRA did and make their own class and let them have at it. At least this way the older cars would not think they have to stay home since they are bringing a knife to a gun fight...... I still like the new cars and are not knocking them , they just need their own classes...:(

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Let me first say that the Horsepower factors are a joke..........
However it is not the fault of those that have them. They are i would assume having fun doing what they love to do. This has been going on for years. I can see Camaros and Firebird's that if i recall started as G and H cars now runnin C and D and still very competitive how many years later? There are a lot of posts on here about the olden days but there is a common theme to them if you look, the good and great ones either changed cars or combos regularly. Do you think that is because they got bored?

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I would reply to this again, but if you don't understand, it cannot be explained. It's one of those things where you either get it, or you don't get it.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

It's about greed and money.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

yep no different than it was in the 60's when the big three were battling it out. I dont see a problem with that.......kinda what started it all isnt it?

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

billy nees number 1 quif. at cecil
does all his own work
no acid

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I understand everybodys point but like the first guy I would someday like to class race. I have the means just not the time or knowledge. I am a mopar guy so I love the new dp's but would build a max wedge since I was born after their high point. Nhra needs to move them into their own classes so we can get back to the variety that s/ss brings. Where are the guys like john shaul this week? Perhaps if the Dutch is a hit then glendora will listen.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Not the way it is now. Cars never sold for street use were not allowed in Stock Eliminator. It had to be legal to license it and drive it on the street in all 50 states. Not any more.


Go try to get the specs to race a production street legal new Ford Mustang to race in Stock. Then you'll see the difference.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

How do you ever expect Class racing to move on if you do not appeal to the next generation? Money or not, most kids do not know anything about carbs or distributors. But they do know how to lap top tune and injector tables and maps.

All the whine and cheese here. Why not just get another hobby. Most of you do not even know what it is like to be a fan and not be able to participate. But yet you load up and be there days early why the average fan works his knuckle to the bones to afford to come and watch you race. You have all priviledges and others only dream to have something old or new.....

take it all for granite as others are happy that new cars appeal to the younger guys to keep it alive....

they could always go home and play x-box and Black Ops.....

BE THANKFUL!!!!!!.......others that you do not know thank YOU!!!!!! old or new cars..

Chassis1

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Chassis we aren't saying get rid of the new cars, believe me I enjoyed talking to dave thomas at e-town. His v-10 is sweet, but I don't want to hurt guys like ken miele because his cobra can't compete in aa/sa. Make is equal and bring them all in new camaros also. Pump up the pay outs and put some time and.energy into the sportsmen and you will get the new generation in. I am part of the new generation that likes turbo cars hell I have a turbo suv. Bring in the front drive cars let them have.fun too. The joy of stock is you can find anything look at Ed with his amc. How many guys want him in rd 1?

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Heres my thought on the new cars I dont mind the new cars coming in to play put them in a class of there own Drag Paks and CJs together in one class of there own. AA/SA and A/SA is becoming a Jr Pro Stock

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I have stayed away for quite a few years (since 1990) but attended that Gatornationals this year, and was very disappointed in the Stock and Super Stock fields. They were small with several classes having no cars and many having just one.
I, for one, used to love winning my class (heads up / no breakout) over several good cars from around the Country. To ME, It was better than the Eliminator racing because of the handicap and breakout rule (mostly the breakout and dial under rules) in the Eliminator races. But then, that's ME - just saying !! ............. and I don't need to hear from those who might criticize my opinion - it is MY OPINION, and I respect yours !!!

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Quote Chassis 1:How do you ever expect Class racing to move on if you do not appeal to the next generation? Money or not, most kids do not know anything about carbs or distributors. But they do know how to lap top tune and injector tables and maps.

All the whine and cheese here. Why not just get another hobby. Most of you do not even know what it is like to be a fan and not be able to participate. But yet you load up and be there days early why the average fan works his knuckle to the bones to afford to come and watch you race. You have all priviledges and others only dream to have something old or new.....

Put on a pair of glasses and see who owns or drives most of the new cars.Old farts with the money to afford these cars and all the associated costs.Most of the next generation driving these cars don't foot the bills.
Stop and take a look at the present day "fans".The majority are either clueless about our cars or just don't give a damn.They're there to get an autograpgh from Force or one of the other "main players".The old time S/SS fans are either gone or they're one of us either
driving or crewing.
If you do chassis work,like your title says,where do/did you make most of your money from,the old cars or the new ones?
There's room for the new cars,if NHRA get's their collective heads out of their a$$e$
and either correctly factors or puts these pretenders (HP wise) in their own class.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

The problem with your position is the new FX factory race cars aren't bringing anyone new to Stock or Super Stock. Plain and simple. They sure aren't bringing new individuals. There are some guys with dealerships that might not have run the class before that have new cars now.

For all the hype we had blown at us about the new cars bringing droves of new fans, new participants, and great coverage, none of it has come true. None of it. The stands are still mostly empty, the car quotas are most often unfilled, there are no new magazine articles about Stock or Super Stock, and no new TV coverage either. Nothing.

What we DO have is guys either sitting at home most of the time or quitting completely.

The new cars have only served to change the basic premise of Stock Eliminator, that was once production cars, legal to license for street use, certified for safety and emissions, with valid VIN's, but is now "what ever the factories want to send NHRA the specifications for, even if they never actually build one single car like it."

I have yet to figure out how changing the basic premise of Stock Eliminator, the foundation of the class, so that it is no longer Stock Eliminator, is going to "save" Stock Eliminator.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Where's the like button?

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

So how many of the stockers out there today are legal for street use? I dont see what that really has to do with it. It also used to be that stockers couldnt run wheelie bars, had to run stock fuel pumps, etc. The "premise" of the class has been changing for years. The difference is some people change with it and some bitch about it and get left behind.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

What Alan is trying to explain to you is up until 2008 every car that competed in Stock you could go to the dealership and buy off the show room. I love the new Mustangs and if funds would allow I would build one yesterday. But the point is Stock was something that everyone could relate to because everyone could go and buy that car so to speak from their local dealer. Not the case with the DP's and the CJ's. I personally love the manufactures involvement but I do agree that if things keep up they should have there own FX class to run in. When I come home from Afghanistan in a couple years I will be running our '69 Fairlane Cobra in Stock and that's just how its going to be for me, Old School.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Talk to Billy Nees!!! I'm sure that he has a combination that is both attractive and moderately inexpensive. Remember: You don't have to be the quickest. It is 90% bracket racing. Later in your life (after children and stuff) you may have more money to afford the better parts and run with the Big Dogs. But for now... get out there and enjoy it. It is all about fun and frindship!!!!:)

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

When I started this thread, I was just wanted to know what had happened to all the cars I went to see.

Thanks for all the responses! I think I have a much better appriciation for situation, that's for sure.

As a fan and hopeful future participant, I honestly can see both sides. I guess the reality is that Ford isn't selling that many FE's these days, haven't seen any Mark IV big blocks at the dealerships lately, and I'm pretty sure Chrysler has given up on development of the Max Wedge engine.

Times do change. But we've never been in a time like this one. There's never been a more distinct difference in era's of cars...but some things are the same. There will always be people who want to race and factory battles for sales on Monday are what got stock and super stock their starts.

I say it's time for NHRA to seperate the modern cars from the old iron. If it means classifying the original muscle in "Nostalgia" Stock and Super Stock then so be it. That really is what it's about for me I guess, the nostalgia. I was born in 1974, after these cars were in there heyday's, but they still appeal to me because I like the hystory and long for a time when life was simpler. It seems to me that there are more reproduciton parts than ever to keep the vintage iron going. I say keep the rules for the Nostalgia classes similar to what they are now, but make sure the new parts availability will allow them to keep going for years to come.

As for the more modern cars, I say let them keep the Stock and Super Stock wars raging for the factories! And if they're going to keep with the "What Wins on Sunday, Sells on Monday" theme, talk to the factories about an FX class for the all out factory race cars, and let's get Stock and Super Stock going with "normal" Mustang GT's and R/T Challengers and for cryin outloud some Camero's!

AND PROMOTE THE CLASSES! I'm guessing the majority of people who buy tickets to come watch the mega bucks nitro madness don't have a clue how much fun they could have actually coming to the track and PARTICIPATING because they're blinded by the marketing and promotional side of things. Do any of the average fans believe there's really any "entry-level" in NHRA? Shouldn't it be Stock Eliminator?

I guess everyone needs a dream...

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

A lot of opinion here. Do you even race in Stock or Super Stock? For having such a bold opinion of real racers, why don't you sign your REAL NAME?

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Jim,

Wes is a racer, engine builder and also the owner of Pro Header Systems and I think he has been racing a way bit longer in the Stock/Super Stock ranks than you.

http://proheadersystems.com/default.asp

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

This has been said again and again and again!!!! Quickest wasy to fix is to BRING BACK EFI CLASSES!!!!

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I agree with you 100% and i am not talking about you personally , just a comment and opinion.....:)

Most of you all look down on IHRA ,but at least they did exactly that and on top of that they have a EFI class for all 2008 and newer cars (example AA/FI , BB/FI , and so on if needed) so's they don't take advantage of the older irons.
Which leaves all the older cars still competitive and a place to race without having to worry to much about heads - up with the new cars...

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Save your typing fingers Danny......Most hard core NHRA racers would quit before they would race with IHRA. They just prefer getting their heads beat in by the new cars better I guess. Its an ego trip for them anyway. Ever notice they will travel 2000+ miles to race NHRA but wont go across the street to run an IHRA race. By the way....I have my membership and car number for stock. Hope to be knocking heads with you soon.....LOL. Keep the A/C in good working order in your motor home.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Wes should still sign his name if he wants any credibility to be given. For your info, I'm 52 and have been racing since '81. Began NHRA LODRS racing in '91.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Come on in ,the waters fine and the A/C will be working. Getting ready to leave for Darlington in just a little while.Trying to tune my junk up so i can battle with Owen Burkette if he comes in L/SA......I need to take the heater ,wipers and blower fan motor off and a few other things so's i can use my weight box....lol, then i won't be able to cruise on the street.; ;)

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

This is the way I would handle it if I were king. I would not give the new cars their own class. Thats weak. I would factor the cars correctly first. That would set the factors for AA-C then I would move the other cars down. The cj's and dp's are the fastest cars out there so they would make up the higher classes. Sorry but the 69 427/396 camaros would no longer be in the highest class. As far as the new cars not being street legal that argument is bogus. The cars are available from the factory with the engines offered so the crate motor argument is also bogus. IHRA has the real crate motor classes. So thats it just factor correctly. If it takes 5 lb to make AA so be it. I don't know what kind of power ths new cj's put out but it has to be 750 plus so that would be a good place to start.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

One of the Cobras went almost 145 mph in 90 degree heat with a low baro, WOW.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

3903 Ray Skillman Bye
C1 ****WINNER**** 0.034 8.658 160.00
SS/BA Index: 9.90 (+/-): -1.242
Qualified: #1 8.750 156.52

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Nice run. NO that was a GREAT run !

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I think one of the things that is so frustrating for a lot of us is that this problem is such a no-brainer and has such an easy solution.

I'm really happy to see the factories back in competition but they should be ashamed of the present set up. How proud would you be to have even the worst NFL team play - and demolish - a high school team?

The last time we were in this situation, A/FX was quickly established and rightful places were found for the other cars. No one had to sell their cars, invest a fortune in new equipment, or stay home due to obsolescence.

Why this can't be done by the next race is beyond me.

Maybe the factories think that we all believe their new "paper" cars are exactly what I can buy off the showroom and drive to the burger joint on the weekend. I don't want to drive them away now that they've finally decided to spend some money on the Sportsman, but I think they're really hurting their image.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Quote Harry:The cars are available from the factory with the engines offered so the crate motor argument is also bogus.

Not so.The early DPs were delivered to you with a (I believe) caravan axle in place of the rear,a trans that was a core sent back to Chrysler with no innards,no driveshaft.
Now my little gremlin was driven home from the dealership and toiled on the streets of NYC for 125,000 miles.Not that's showroom available to the public.
NHRA doesn't need crate motors,they can (well used to before our present conditions,both economic and internal,as in NHRA buffoonery).IHRA added them for survival of the org.