Racepak for stick cars
 

I get more and more calls on Racepak for stick cars. The questions are usually:

1. How hard is it to use the software to see slip. And this breaks down into A: do I have to be a computer wiz and B: can it really show what is going on in the first second?

2. How much does it cost?

To answer the first question, here is a graph from a Pro Stock car where I have zoomed in on the first 2 seconds of the run. (it's the only one handy - anybody want to send me some Stock/ SS stuff I'd like to see em) with the 4 steps highlighted.

http://www.motorsportsinnovations.co...lutch-slip.jpg

So the steps are:
1. Click mouse cursor on the time into the run
2. Use arrow keys to get the time exactly where you want it (in this case .102)
3. Look at slip percentage (16% for this car)
4. look at lock-up curve (yea, I know there are two #3's)

The Red line is engine RPM, Blue is the drive shaft, Green is the input shaft


Make adjustments to car and repeat until you run quicker than the current record in your class :D

How much does it cost - $1119 and that get's you a Racepak Sportsman logger, input shaft sensor kit and a 9' cable, software, cables and laptop accessories. Besides reading the input shaft you get engine RPM, shaft RPM, accell & lateral G meters, and volts. Adding O2, temperatures etc is easy.

Let me know of any questions.

Greg Kelley 609-265-2110

MSI - A Sponsor of the East Coast Stock -SS Association

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Here is a picture of the clutch kit

http://www.motorsportsinnovations.co...clutch-kit.jpg

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

what do you suggest with no candle stick?

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

I have a RacePak on my B/S car and have not found good place to install the sensor on the Jerico. I know guys have installed them on the input. They have had problems with magnets and broken sensors. I was was looking at using the reverse idler but then would need soft ware to do the conversion. Jerico at this time does not a solution for this. Has anybody found a better way?

Dirk Olson
5036 B/S

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

You can create additional channels in your RacePak. Create a new channel for 1st gear, 2nd gear and 3rd gear. In each new channel you can apply a formula. For 1st gear divide the driveshaft rpm by the first gear ratio. This will give you the same graph line for first gear as if you had an input sensor. You can do the same for 2nd and 3rd, just divide by their corresponding ratios. Yes you will have to look at four different lines, instead of one "clutch" graph line, but you will get the same results. You don't need to do this for 4th gear since it is 1 to 1.

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

This works for me. Instead of mounting the fragile $80.00 sensor on the input shaft I mounted mine on the side of the case so that it reads a split collar on the cluster. The spud pictured is counterbored and tapped to accept a standard RacePak driveshaft / clutch sensor. The RacePac program is able to correct for the M/D ratio of the cluster for a direct single line readout as if the sensor was reading from the input shaft.

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Mark Madison, now that's using your head... never would have thought of that Good job. Joe

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Mark,

I actually had thought the same thing accept I bought a couple differant split collars and they are way to big, along with not having much room between the cluster and main shaft gearing. If you could point me towards where you got the split collar I can make the rest. This would GREATLY appreciated!

Dirk

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Dirk, I made my own collar. As you know all the commercial ones are way to big. The collar must be 2.375 o.d x 1.750 i.d x.375. with a small notch in the i.d so the oil relief hole in the counter shaft is not obscured.

Mark Madison
A/S 7995

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Thanks Joe

Mark Madison
A/S 7995

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

I use 3 inputs , Engine Rpm, Input shaft/ Clutch Rpm & Driveshaft Rpm
Is the tire spinning or the clutch slipping while using one sensor for both.

Mark Madison

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Has anyone put this sensor in a Gforce G-101 4 speed? Is there a good way of doing it?

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Mark, what racepak unit do you use?, and does anyone know if the correction can be put into the sportsman and the v300 ?

Thanks,Dave

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Monty, by having the engine rpm and the input rpm, you see a true graph in every gear, all the time, another words you see proportionally how much the clutch is slipping. The driveshaft rpm increases continually and it is harder to see the true slipage. Comp and prostock cars have it easy putting the sensor right on the input because mainly they have more room to get the sensor in the bellhousing astheir bellhousings are much deeper than ours and have a different input setup.

All that being said, I am no expert on this data stuff as I don't have any in my cars yet, I just have an understanding of it some what.

Dave

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Dave, I use a RacePak SC1000 with the latest upgrades, not a v300 but good enough. You can try Right clicking the clutch icon and the "scaled buffer channel parameters" window will appear. To adjust for the countershaft ratio adjust raw data value "B" . for your M/D ratio.

Jerico modified for Racepak
 

A top and bottom loader Jerico modified for Racepak sensor by re-machining the cast-in fill plug boss.

DataQuest for stick cars
 

http://www.altronicsinc.com/media/pr...s/dq_graph.jpg

The DataQuest system easily plots Clutch RPM and Clutch Slip Percentage.

One unique feature the DataQuest system has is that it does NOT require a sensor on the input shaft of the transmission. The system is smart enough to determine which gear you are in and then can accurately compute input shaft speed from drive shaft RPM. This reduces system cost and installation issues and provides EXACTLY the same data as having a sensor in a manually shifted car.

Yet the DataQuest does allow you to install a sensor when you may be running a lenco style transmission and want to be able to see the diffrence between clutch slip and transmission clutch slip.

For more info check out our website!

http://www.altronicsinc.com/media/te.../DataQuest.jpg

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Mark and Dallas,

Great work, I very much appreciate the help and information. Good to see stick guys helping stick guys, not many of us out there.

Thanks Again!

Dirk Olson
5036 B/S

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Same here. It gives you what you need.

I was just wondering if the gear oil in the tranny messes with the readings when the sensors are installed like this?

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

The oil has not effected mine. I run the sensor about .030 from the collar. Todd Payton has suggested that if there where problems with interference from the gear oil I could use Racepaks 12v powered sensor.

If there where enough interest I would consider making a kit that would include the collar, sensor adaptor and drilling guide.

Mark Madison

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Todd,

G-Force can supply a bearing retainer fitted with a bung that will accept the sensor. They can also supply the necessary sealed input bearing.

George Peterson
D/S 4448

Re: Jerico modified for Racepak
 

Dallas, did you machine this yourself (magnet collar on the shaft) or did you farm it out to someone else ? We are class rule restricted to T5's and Tremec's and I am want to mount a sensor for the input shaft data logging on our G Force T5. Because of the transmission design and no one making a sealed tapered bearing, G Force prefers not to help us with this project

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Mark you have a PM

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

I have a input sensor on my jerico in my ss/i car that is exactly like the one Mark built for his. I did alot of research and no one makes a kit to do this, including jerico. There is no way we could see to mount it to read directly off the input shaft. My machinest made a slip collar with a magnet that installs on the cluster. We drilled and tapped a 1/2 hole in the case and used a 1/2 bolt with the center machined and tapped to accept the sensor. My trans. is a older bottom loader and was easy to set up with that bottom cover removed. I use a computech system and it will convert the main drive ratio to 1:1. I have a new jerico trans. that was just finished last week and they installed the collar and drilled the case for me. The new trans. does not have the bottom cover so need to install sensor and collar as the trans was being built. This has worked well and have seen a few others done the same way.

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Jim, we were looking at our T5 case and most likely will have to mount the sensor to where it will read off of the cluster shaft as well. We are using a Racepak Sportsman box and will have to see if it will convert to the main shaft speed as well.

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Mark provided us with his pattern for the jerico. If you can make a collar and drill and tap the case, it works great! I am sure that the same principle will work. You will have to see where it can all fit in there! It helps to have a friend with machinist skills. Easy work for them to figure out. I like being able to figure out when and how long the clutch slips. If you do that and if you have data from kyle carruthers clutch dyno, it makes life easier as far as clutch tuning is concerned. Especially if you have to adjust for heads up vs. Elims or track conditions.

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Thank you James

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Yes.....The Racepak sportsman can easily be configured to convert a cluster shaft mounted sensor to 1:1 for the input shaft. You need to know the number of teeth on the input gear and the cluster to do the math. Mine was 29/20 for a 1.45 ratio.
You need to change one number in the clutch configuration table to make this happen.
I bought my sensors from Greg Kelley(the guy that started this thread). He walked me through the process to re-configure in about 2 minutes.This, of course assumes you already installed the sensor in your Racepak/Laptop.
Greg can also help with this if you have any questions.
Also, in the configuration program, make sure you indicate if you have one or two magnets in your collar.(pulses per revolution).

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Guys this is all great input and is much appreciated. A friend of mine who I helped crew with had the typical G Force deal reading his input shaft speed from the front bearing retainer on his GF5 but I knew the T5 would be different. Again all reply's are much appreciated !!!

Re: Jerico modified for Racepak
 

"Damn Yankee" sorry to take so long to answer.
No, I did not do the machine work myself. Chuck Buckshorn, friend, excellent machinist and long-time racer, actually made all the pieces. During the layout process, we discovered that the fill plug boss lined up, laterally, with where we needed to be on the cluster. The case was externally milled to adjust the angular alignment to the countershaft center line. I bought a length of, I believe, 1" aluminum hex rod that was machined into a combination fill plug/sensor adapter with o-ring seals. The split ring is very straight forward since there just is not sufficient clearance to allow very much variation of dimensions. I sold both of the modified Jerico transmissions without verifying that the design would work. However, the Jericos were replaced with Libertys, also modified by Chuck and they work with the standard Racepak clutch sensor and a single magnet in the countershaft split ring.

Re: Jerico modified for Racepak
 

I think once I can find someone who can make the collar for the cluster gear shaft with the magnets, we'll be cooking with gas. Thank you Dallas

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Lots of good feedback on the Jerico installation but I'm still wondering if anyone has put the magnetic collar on a G101 countershaft?

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

Contact Bubba at G-Force, I am sure he could tell you if they have, or what is involved.

Sean

Re: Racepak for stick cars
 

I'm selling my SC-1000 racepak unit. Please see my add in the racecar parts section. Thanks Mark Madison