OLDER ENGINE SPEC's
 

If anyone is interested I recieved my old NHRA/IHRA engine spec book back today. I have spec's for most older combos for around 1984 and back showing cam duration, overlap spec's and valve spring pressures for those interested in IHRA pure stock. Same deal for older stockers for what ever combos NHRA will be allowing to run this coming year. I still need an old NHRA "Red Book" guide for the class breaks for the older cars if anyone who has one would loan one to me so I could make copies or at least offer to post any such info requested.

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Would you please post the spec's for the 428 1967 Shelby.

Thanks Larry

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1958 pontiac

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66 283 220horse

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Now you won't be bored anymore Terry....lol

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LOL We all know what I have in my old NHRA book isnt what is being run today.
Both of these are 428's.
The only single 4 version is listed at 355 HP. Uses a 4150 Holley carb.
.485 lift cam w/solid lifters.
68.0 CC heads
small exhaust valve @ 1.566. Intake @ 2.037
The rest is what is listed today by NHRA in the newer books
The 2 four version is 390 HPand uses 2 each 4160 Holley carbs
same head specs as above and a Hydraulic .481 cam.
The spring pressures and duration/overlap specs I have listed dont matter for today's NHRA rules for either one.

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Which HP version?

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1966 283/220 HP has a "rated" comp ratio of 9.25. Uses a Roch carb # 4GC-7025127 for a stick and 4 GC-7025126 for a P/G.
1.5 rockers Hyd. cam
54.9 CC's for the head and .002 deck
Flat top pistons w/ 4 valve relief's
Intake valve 1.725
Exhaust 1.505
Cam: zero checking clearence, 300 degress duration on I and Ex. with 78 degrees overlap.
.399 lift.
single spring w/damper
86 lbs closed spring pressure
180 open spring pressure
.018 head gasket

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Thanks Terry,

How about 1970 dodge 383 in a challenger RT....the old stocker might just be pure stock legal! Valve spring pressure would be great to know.

Thanks again

Eric

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There are 2 383's listed for the Challenger. I assume you wanted the 335 HP version. The other is a 330 HP with a different carb and a smaller cam.

1970 Dodge 383/335 HP
1 4 barrel Holley 4367 or 4217/sm 4369 or 4218/Auto
Manifold casting number 2951666
1.5 Rockers
Hydr. cam
Head CC's 79.5
Casting Numbers 906, 346, 213, 452, 902, 975, 187
Deck .004
Flat top piston
Head gasket .021
Single spring ( With Dampner)
128 lbs pressure on the seat
248 lbs open pressure
Cam: zero checking clearence
Intake 352 degrees
.455 lift
150 degrees overlap
Ehaust 380 degrees
.470 lift
Intake valve 2.080
Exhaust valve 1.740

Alt carbs 4667, 8, 88, 4734, 5, 6191 or 3

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280,300,315,330

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Oh gezzz man...Thats a lot of typing. I will send you one or 2 now and the other 2 later this evening. .

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The 370 cu inch 280 HP you requested is 285 HP in the spec book.
Its rated at 10.0 compression
uses 1 4 barrel Carter AFB-2768Sor 2767S
1.5 rockers
70.2 CC's in the head
.000 Deck
uses inner and outer springs
Outer is 60 lbs closed and 109 open pressures
Inner is 26 lbs closed and 60 open pressures
Cam is Hyd. and has a checking clearence of 5-9 on the intake. The duration is 273 degrees and the overlap is 55 degrees. The intake lift is .411.
The Exhaust has a checking clearence of 5-11. The duration is 282 degrees with a lift of .411 also.
The intake valve is 1.880 and the exhaust is 1.600.
The head # is not listed and the head gasket is not listed either.

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Vic...The 300 has the same spec as the 285 HP except for 3 two's, 65.0 CC heads for 10.5 comp. and the valve spring pressures are different.
The carbs are Rochester 2GC's Front carb is 7011705, Rear is 7011707, and the center is 7011706. The spring pressures ar Outer 62 lbs closed and 131 lbs open.
The inner spring is 32 lbs closed and 96 lbs open.
Same deal on the head casting # and head gasket thickness.
This is right ff the NHRA spec revision dated 7/17/70.

I will try to send the 315 HP and the 330 HP later this evening.
Terry

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thanks terry

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The 315 HP engine uses one 4 barrel Carter AFB 27685 or 2767S.
It is rated at 10.5 comp. with 65.0 CC's in the heads.
.000 Deck
1.5 rockers
Valve springs are again inner and outer.
Outer is 62 lbs closed and 131 lbs open
Inner is 55 lbs closed and 120 lbs open.
Now the cams allowed are a story of their own. After the NHRA disallowed the E-2 and E- 3 Isky cams the OEM cam was a Hyd. with .411 on Intake and Exhaust. The checking clearance for both intake and exhaust are 5-11. The Intake duration was 283 degrees The overlap was 60 degrees. Exhaust duration was 293 degrees.
If anyone wishes to run an IHRA "Pure stocker" The Isky E=2 and E-3 are still legal I think. I have the specs for both on an IHRA spec sheet dated July 1 1968 and have never been disallowed. The duration is the only difference between the two Isky cams. The checking clearence is .023 for both cams on both Intake and Ehaust. The E-2 cam has a duration of 270 degrees and an overlap of 58 degrees. The Ehaust has 270 degrees also. Cam lift is .450 on Intake and Exhaust for both the E-2 and E-3 Isky cams. The E-3 cam has a duration of 274 degrees on the Intake and Exhaust along with 56 degrees overlap. Both the E-2 and E-3 Isky cams are SOLID LIFTERS.The head gasket listed on these two combos are .045 thick compressed. I would assume that all the other engine combos would have the same head gasket.
The only difference between the 315 HP combo and the 330 HPcombo is the intake and carbs. The 330 HP uses 3 two's Rochester Front 2G-7011705, Rear is 2G-7011707, and the center carb is 7011706 or 9.
Hope this is what you wanted. Its confusing so if you need a "translation" let me know.
Terry

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what is the difference in the 300hp and the 330hp
there the same right

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No.... different cams and inner valve spring pressures. You can use the Isky E-2 or E-3 solid lifter cam in the 330 HP. Different duration and overlap and inner spring pressue even if if you stay with the Hyd. cams.

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Terry, how about the Super/Stock 283 1-4B Glide in 58 and in 60 Corvette. They are both 230 factored to 225 today. Thanks

Wade Mahaffey

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All the solid cams listed for Pontiacs were dealer installed options and never were assembly line installed. Mckeller design, Isky produced. Not allowed after NHRA knocked out any combinations that were not assembly line produced.....back around 1969-1970. A '58 Pontiac also could have Rochester fuel injection.....and that was an assembly line installed item.....HP was 315 with a hydraulic cam if my memory is correct....

My first nice car was a '58 Pontiac.....so I have a fond memory of those cars.

I'd love to have one today.....

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Any of you East Coast guys remember Fred Borcherdt? I read about his Pontiacs in the magazines of the day, and they were always KILLER. I think he ran a F.I. '57 at one time. I also think he built that '69 Judge called "Rocky's Goat" that won the Finals at Dallas, one year. One of the magazines had a cover shot of that car doing a wheelie (uncommon for a Stocker, back then.)

I THINK Jerry Stealy bought that car and re-named it "NEMESIS" and ran Div. V with it for several years. It was known for long, and I mean, L-O-N-G, smoky, burnouts back then (7" tires.)

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True the Isky cams were dealer/racer installed but still allowed in IHRA back in the day. Havent seen one since around 1975 though. The FI unit was on 310 HP and 338 HP combos. The 338 HP FI combo had the same specs as the 330 HP w/tri power. The 315 HP with one 4 barrel did use a hydr. for NHRA later on but was allowed the Isky solid lifter cam before they were disallowed by NHRA same as when they outlawed the SD (NASCAR) parts on the 60-61 Pontiacs.

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I looked at a '57 Safari wagon tow car at one race.....maybe out at York. I think it was Borcherdt's when he raced a '57 2dr. He was a trans builder from what I have read. Never knew him but liked his cars....
Rocky's Goat was a very cool car....and he raced The "It's Dynamite" Mopar wagon at Atco heads up (E/SA?) in the final round I think at the WCS race in 1970. The Mopar won ??? Hard to remember stuff from 40 years ago! He did have a cardboard barbell in the car above the rear seat on the speaker tray area.......some kind of story about coming up light on the scales and he was given the barbell as a joke....

My favorite Pontiac racer was Truman Fields........Met him once at my local track and he was running his Hard Times Firebird.....

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The 58 had 60.1 head CC's, the 59 and 60 had 59.7 CC's.
Deck .015
All used a Carter WCFB
Valves were 1.725 on the Intake and 1.505 on the Exhaust.
Flat top pistons w/4 valve reliefs (2 for S/S).
As far as I can see they are all the same except for the 1958 head CC spec.
NHRA has the specs listed for the 60 on their site.

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Lil George Cureton borrowed it and drove at the Dallas race. I dont believe he won though. I have the mag with the Rockys Goat article around someplace. I will look it up.

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Thanks, Terry. Dunno whether Fred is still around....

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Fred Borcherdt is alive and well. He attended a racer's reunion at Cecil County in 2010- I just saw a group photo of the attendees over this weekend with Fred's signature, among others.

He lived in Milford Crossing, Delaware when the Rocky's Goat article was written. The main thing I remember from that article is that he had his own cam grinding machine.

Ron Sanders tells me that he had a rule-bending way of dealing with the siamesed exhaust ports on his '58 Pontiac. He extended a divider wall into the port that was welded to the header flange. So, the head wasn't modified, the header was re-designed. Ron said he was torn down, and as far he remembers, it was allowed.

Ron also remembers that Fred did some work on Cureton's Tokyo Rose (the first Rose was also a 58 Pontiac)), but doesn't know if Fred lent his car to George.

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thanks for the 66 283 combo,:D

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Thanks Terry

How the 67 Shelby got so wrong is still a mystery (JimSkelly) ?

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Larry, I don't think that ANYBODY realizes how many "mistakes" are really in the guide and they certainly don't just pertain to Shelbys! Maybe I'll sit down on a boring day and make me a "top 10" list.

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I'll get some popcorn.

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Billy maybe your list should be titled "Look What Santa Brought''.

1. 1968 L88 Chevy carb on the 67 Shelby.

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Hey Larry, hope you and Patty had a happy holiday. FYI the carb is a 1967 L88 carb, NOT a 1968. That was the only good carb Mr Shelby could find back in those days. Anyway, hope to see you at the races this year, with both of our "bogus" cars. One new, one old.

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Bill Hawk it will be great to see you and the rest of the team in 2011, but not in the other lane. Good luck on the new car.

Bill just one question, how does the 1984 spec. not include the 1967 L88 carb?

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Hey Larry, to answer your question in the 1984 spec all that was listed for a carb was 4150. Which is correct, Mr. Shelby gave NHRA the correct carb number in 1996 which is 3418. NHRA wouldnt tech the car in with the carb i orginally had which was a 1000cfm 4150. So now i get stuck with this 3418 which is only 850 cfm. ( BTW 4150 is a wide range of carb numbers and sizes, 4150 just means dual feed, Hope this straightens out any confusion).

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Bill,I like your style.:>):>):>)

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Bill what took him so long.

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Sleeping?