Gettin' back into it..
 

Hey, I am considering getting back into the game.. Haven't done much over the last 10 years...Little street racin' and bracket racin'... I have a 64 dodge 440 model 2drhdtp... how would the car do with a 383 in it and what class would I have to run? I am open to any ideas and suggestions.. I would like to run stock but may consider ss. Thanks alot. Edward

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383/305/305- e f g car and the 383/330/280-h i j

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The 383/280 is a great Combo. It supersedes to 915 67 Heads which are much better. Chuck Rayburn ran one this year in his 64 Ply. and ran well. Good Luck and let me know if I can help.

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Get hooked up with the right people. ie: Engine builder, Chassis builder, Carb Guy, Tranny Builder, and Header guru. Spend right around 50 grand. Then maybe you'll be able to run within three tenths to a half a second of the new Drag Packs and Mustangs. Come on in ...the water's fine. JB.

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Hey thanks John... Yea, I had seen where Chuck Rayburn was running a 383.. Since I have a pile of that stuff, blocks, cranks heads etc..I have a set of the 66 915 heads with the 1.60 exhaust valves, but can I use the 67 heads with the 1.72 exhaust valves. I thought running stock you had to have the stock size valves? And why is the other member suggesting I get a chassis guy... Not much you can do to a stock chassis? I am a damn good engine guy myself and I have a tranny guy. So I got that end of it. I appreciate all the help.

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Hey John... I have a nice 98 Dakota R/T that a friend suggested that I build for stock too. I have seen these trucks do well in stock. Either or..I hope to have something at the track by spring.

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The 915 heads came in two varieties, the standard heads had the 1.60 exhaust valve, the HP version had the 1.72 exhaust valve and was stamped HP on front of the head. These heads were came on the 440 HP on my 1967 GTX.

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I would be very hesitant to build any car that would have to compete in or near a NEW car from Chrysler or FORD. You are just spending money to finish last. Either build a new car of enjoy spectator till the HP are corrected. Or you can consider it a learning experience.

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Yea, I know that I have several sets of each (ya know "borninamopar) but I don't think the 915 with the 1.72 exhaust would be legal to run on a 64 dodge with the 383. I think john was talking about the 66 915's with the 1.60 valves as that is what came stock in 64 in the 383. I may just build the R/T it looks like it may be more competitive anyway. I might build them both and see which does better.

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Hey Dick.. After researching it a little more..I am considering building my 98 Dakota R/T or one of my other cars. I didn't realize I would be running against the new DP and Mustwangs..bad choice. I have a couple of other cars I can work with too.
I have wondered how my 65 Valiant 2 dr sedan would do with the 273 in it. I want to get back on the track, but I want to be able to go rounds.

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Just a quick question - how often do you think that you'll run heads up against one of the new DP/CJ cars? I think that you'll go a lot of rounds before getting a heads up with one the them. I myself race for the fun of it and if I have to go heads up against one of them, well, that's drag racing. I'll be back at the next race to do it all over again. You're going to get one winner and one loser no matter who's in the the other lane.

Ken Kopecky
1454 E/SA

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borninamopar,

With all do respect to Jim and Dick, I would go ahead and build the combo you like. There is only one new car in the classes your 64 Dodge can run and none in the lower classes. Like Ken said, the chances of running into a new car is slim. I would be more worried about the fast old cars that are in your classes.

You seem to have a handle on the many aspects in building your car. The tech section here is a great resource and should make getting back into stock more enjoyable. Try not to let some of the members that may be a little down on class racing discourage you. Its not to say they are not in the right, but life is to short, have fun and go ahead and build what you want.

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I agree Ken, Build what you like with the understanding that the points meet agenda of dial in is a great deal of fun. The only issue today is Heads up. If you want to try to win a Trophy for class it might be harder if a new car falls in the class. Life IS short and we all deserve to have a good time. Enjoy as many of the positives of this racing as we can. Good Luck.

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No disrespect for Mr. Butler, but he got out of Class racing YEARS before the DP / CJ cars were in the pipeline. I think the DP / CJ cars are just the excuse some were or are looking for.

If you really like your '64, build it! Go Stock with a 383 or build a SS with any engine you want that's in the class guide for Dodge under the SS/GT rules. There is a spreadsheet listed elsewhere.
Admin - that would be a GREAT sticky! (2nd request)

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As I recall the 1967 375 HP engines had 2.08 and 1.75 Valves and were stamped HP on flat area on front of head. The lower HP versions such as in the full size none HP "C" body had 2.08 and 1.60 valves. Only apparent difference was valve size...casting was identical on all 915's. You do have to run original stock size exhaust valve on early engine 1.60......but they still work fine. John Irving

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Thanks Jeff, It is true I am out of the racing actively. When I first started racing Class winner was a Major deal. At first I thought I would build what " I liked" not knowing that my favorite was factored poorly, had a bad wt break and couldnt compete.
Then I felt that to WIN a Class Trophy I had to use the added advantages provided in OTHER ways by NHRA rules.
Factoring IS the BIG advantage which actually out weighs hard work in todays class racing. If you do BOTH and drive good you can be unstoppable in class.
Eliminator removes the need for "good factoring "till Heads up runs.
Todays S and SS provides much more dial in eliminations and reward for this racing and can be fun with almost any combination. It just might not be a Class Trophy Winner.

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[QUOTE=I have wondered how my 65 Valiant 2 dr sedan would do with the 273 in it. I want to get back on the track, but I want to be able to go rounds.[/QUOTE]

There is just such a car up in Division 6, Bill Bushmaker built this same car
for his daughter and it has gone rounds at most races they enter.

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There was one at the Tri-State Div. 5 race too. J or K/SA.

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Hey John, you are correct the 67 915's have the larger exhaust valve and the 66 model 915's have the smaller valve, but the 66 heads also have a higher floor and longer transition and hump than the 67 heads with the larger valve. At least according to the heads I have and have worked on. But, do the 66 915's flow better straight "stock" than the 516 head. Hope I have all these part numbers correct, tryin' to pull them out of a toasty head from the holidays. Still, I know the rules dictate stock sized valves.

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John, you are correct that the 67 head had the larger exhaust valve. the 66 head has a smaller exhaust valve, but also differs in that the exhaust floor is higher and also the transition into the exhaust is higher and longer that the 67 heads. At least in all the various sets I have. I have another question, and it is "Do the 66 915's flow better than the 516 heads straight "stock"?
And I appreciate all the positive feedback, about my choices, since it seems the racers that are tryin' to talk me out of it drive chevies or fords.
I believe that both cars would be very competitive, and may build both and make my daughter drive what she calls "Ugly little car." We can always try to take them with numbers huh. Thank's ya'll I feel welcome here.

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The 915 intake port is identical to the 906 which is a good thing. This port flows much better in stock form than the 516. The 915 intake port also responds very well to porting, the 516 does not which would be important if you were to build a SS motor.

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Thanks Paul..Yea, I read that that somewhere. If the 915's with the small exhaust valve is "legal" I have more than a few pair of them. Now too run the car as a 440 model or a 330 model: And I know, some will say that they have never seen a 330 64 hdtp, but I saw one for sale not long ago. I admit it was the first 330 hardtop I ever saw, but it was one. So, wouldn't it technically be a lighter shipping weight?

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The Smith Family(Pro Trans Builder) run a Dakota R/T usually in I/SA and it a solid 1.0 under combo in good Air with FI 360. All my 67 915 heads look the same on exhaust port to my elderly naked eyes (looked again today). The 66 heads do look worse to me but all I can find around here are still 516 # like the 64 - 65 heads. I believe that a lot of the 915 67 Heads I have were cast in later part of 1966. I took delivery of our 67 GTX in early Nov. and I believe the build date was Aug. of 1966 so I would think the Julian Date on Heads was probably July or June of 1966 although I am not a restoration expert by any means.

Since you can move around the weight in the car to bottom of class or up and down a class the exact shipping weights are not important like they were in old days. Good Luck

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Another avenue you might look at is the 426 Street wedge. It's virtually the same but with more cubes and it's been devalued from 365hp to 300.

JimR

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I am considering building my '64 Valiant sedan with a 273 two barrel, it seems to fit in P/SA and some of the guys have had success with this engine in B body's inj lower classes.

JimR

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Just my opinion Jim......... but the four barrel 273 looks a lot better to me. I believe the engine is at 220 and can run Edelbrock Alum. Intake. The Wongs and Bushmakers both run the combo and are FAST. The old Mopar Race Manuels aways suggest not running a 2 Bl. in a class that can run 4 BL. My boys 318 Wagon in P/SA can run Small or Large Thermoquads (up to 800 CFM) and a very efficient intake allowing it to Spin 7000 RPM comfortable. Every time we have tried a 2 Bl. it just doesn't want to run much over 5,500. There is a racer in Vegas building a GT car with 273 2 Bl. and I am watching to see how he does.
Also be aware that the Casting # on 915 only needs to be correct.....No matter when it was cast on Julian date IE: head can be cast a different year than car it is on if casting # is right!

Just my .02 for what is is worth .. .......John Irving

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Yea, I saw a 65 Coronet runnin' somewhere: Red car, black hdtp, he was running a 426 SW. Never heard how he does. Thanks. There weren't many 64 Dodge with a street wedge. Yea, about the Valiant with the 273...My 2 dr sedan is fast, bone stock..They don't weight much and are super sturdy little cars. I always knew I could make one run fast.

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Sound Like John Winslow's 65 Dodge SS/JA out of Northern California.

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Why not run a Max Wedge or a Hemi? Seriously, the carb on a street wedge is a bottle neck and the heads are on the mediocre side. Maybe the low horsepower factor would mitigate these shortcomings.

We did some testing on the flow bench and found that the 516s flowed equal or slightly better than the 915s. Remember you only get .424" lift so ginormous numbers aren't that important.

I've got enough problems without jumping into the Super Stock side of the pool but none the less I am intrigued by the GT classes. What about building a '77/'78 440? It comes with good heads and a huge carb...

Good luck. Run the '64--the world needs more ugly old Mopars!

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
'64 Plymouth Savoy Max Wedge Wagon
Stock 6621

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Hey Chris, I am considering all the possibilities. The GT class is interesting, and I have a few of the late 440 motors layin' around. One is a motorhome motor with a huge 1000cfm thermobog that was runnin' like a mule when I tore it out of the house on wheels. Yea, I love the old ugly mopars, I have a few sittin' around, I have an even uglier 63 sedan.
Maybe, I'll just start buildin' them all. I can run the 64, my wife can run the 98 Dak R/T, and my daughter can run the ugly little Valiant. 'Preciate all the help everyone is giving...I am tending to lean to the Mopar guys..I just don't trust those Ford and Chevy guys.

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Hi Chris: The late 76- 78 440 have terrible compression due to a -.120 deck
and 82 or 83 CC heads compared to -.027 and 79 CC for earlier motors with almost same HP factor ( 350 vs. 345 Stk. 340 SS )
We have found considerable more airflow and performance with 915 compared with 516 ......we think ourselves.
426 street is a slug but it has been re factored from 365 to 300 HP or so over the years..... which is a bunch.
Me and the kid are looking forward to seeing you this year again.
Good Luck!............Irving Family Racing

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Hey John,
Saw that RoadRunner you were tryin' to sell...Are those wheel tubs? As far as the 915's compared to 516's I have always followed the most current head work write ups , and from the old Mopar Muscle write ups until now; Everyone seems to get more flow from the 915's. It seems the most important part of work is the floor and valve to floor transition area. The print I have from way back, shows the difference as compared to the larger HP head. Thanks for the advise. Got the print from one of my old bibles in the head section.

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Borninamopar,

With the 383 you now get to run the #666 '70 intake manifold, not a bad piece, especially compared to the original thing.

Hi John,

I'm looking forward to being back. Racing beats the heck out of singing the broken motor blues. I'm sure you're right about the 915s vs. the 516s as far as potential goes but what about unmodified with similar valve size? Do the new rules allow us to modify the 915s enough to maximize the potential?

Thanks for being such a sage and positive voice on this forum and at the track. Good luck in 2011!


Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

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Hey Chris, not to savvy on all the engine rules, but I bought a 383 not long ago from some yard that had pulled the motor out of an old racecar and it had the 666 intake on it, with a set of 66 915's on it with a hemi oil pan and some other neat stuff in it...! I realized that this was a stocker motor after I did some talking to people and checking the numbers NHRA allows. So, I have the motor and all sorts of parts to go that route. I've considered going that route, cause you can spin the hell out of that motor. What gear should I run in the rear to get the most out of it?

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Where will you be doing your racing? Sea level or waaaaayyyyyyy up high?

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Hey Phillip,
I can throw a rock and hit the Gulf, and the State of Cajuns:
I live in SW Mississippi: So, about a few hundred feet above sea level:
Depending on how high the tide is that day. NPR, Capital City , Hub City. I just don't like Fords and Chevvies, and figure I should go class racin' and throw another old ugly mopar into the mix: Figured I could get lots of help from all the Mopar racers here: Seems like this is a great bunch of racers here.

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Those are the stock fender tubs and they are Huge......will fit 11 wide slicks nicely. Please do not give tech any ideas.....We were protested for illegal windshield angle at Vegas 2010 Div. and had to find another one for Div Tech Director to measure for 1/2 an Hour! The 73/74 B body Plymouths had the biggggest quarter panels mopar ever produced.....also widest track and widest spring spacing. After 35 plus years I am finally getting to like the styling......we are currently running two in stock eliminator!

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I would start with a 4.88 if you go with the 383 combo and add more ear if needed. Are you planning on using a low first gear in the trans?

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I agree with Phil. We have a 4.56, a 4.88, and a 5.13 set and the 4.88s seem to be the best. We're still wandering in the dark, though and my advice on the subject is worth every penny you didn't pay for it.

A little off the subject but you should budget for a complete CalTracs set up for your Dodge--bars, springs, shocks--all of it. It will put your hot rod in the ball park right away no matter what combination you decide to run.

Good luck!

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

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I would suggest getting a hold of Jim Hale he has the motor Chuck was using plus others and I think he's wanting to sell them.
Thanks Jerry