Is NHR Cursed or Something ?
Ok, if the admins feel this belongs in the lounge feel free to move it, I put it here because it and the events surrounding it are 100% tied to Class Racing for us.
People tell us and ask us about our luck ? They say wow youve had some bad luck , or no none of this can really happen ? I guess for me this is no different than normal life everyday , my mother says I live under a black cloud but I dont see it that way. Since the DP Has arrived weve had some "issues" some self caused, some not. But lets recap. Blown motor on Dyno (Jan-Feb) Missed Pomona and Pheonix Blown motor at Atlanta Div Feb-Mar Trailer axle broke on way back from Atl, had repaired took 2 weeks + Went back down to pick up car and trailer. Blew truck up on way back from Virginia Missed Houston and Vegas because we had to go back to Atlanta to resolve issues...timing delay and tried but missed vegas Tech by about 10 hrs. Issues at Indy (v1) and then the Rainout, DQ at Norwalk and Nostart, no qual Indy (v2) had limiter issues. And probably a few more. At Indy, the first time Irv Johns said as we were leaving, he stopped us and said "Chris Ive given this a LOT of thought and I think I know what your problem is. You know they used to make a car called a Demon, and I think some of those leftover parts got used in your car, I think what you car needs is an Excorcism" And it got a good laugh and still does from Myself Mandie and Pop. 2 Days ago my dad said "DID YOU READ THIS ? QUICK COME HERE !" and he handed me a CarCraft comic. I put it down and said later Im working on the generator. Last night at about 9 closing up shop I read it, I had to triple check the date, its from the Dec 2009 Issue.....but wow......FREAKY. I dont believe in curses, I do, DO believe in Karma. Maybe its payback for all the stupid stuff I put my parents through, but as I age I really try to do right by everyone.....then again maybe I am Cursed...? :eek: Read Page 1 http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/...c5bc9792c0.jpg Then Page 2 http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/...4eb1f53933.jpg Beyond the MegaManiac name, Mandie has named the car Jezzabelle because she likes to torture us :D |
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You are suffering new car bugs and blues. You also screwed up and let a race car know you were in a hurry. And you kept doing it. Most luck is self generated and self inflicted.
Hard lessons I learned over the years, and learned again getting back into Stock. D.W said it best, you often find out that if you slow down a little, you'll go faster, sometimes, a lot faster. |
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But I thought that cartoon was HILARIOUS especially with what Irv said and the twang in his voice made it just priceless, I hope he see it....lol |
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“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.”
"Haste makes waste" "Insanity is when you keep doing the same thing and expect different results" |
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“Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.”
So what happesn if both racers are prepared and have the same opportunity who Wins??? |
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The lucky one Lol.
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perfect answer . Luck is the most important aspect of racing . Luck can win over any pro sportsman racer who is a better driver cause of more seat time and more practice or any other aspect of winning against another racer > :p;):D
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You guys arent cursed and you arent the only ones going through this stuff. Its a 'teething process' of sorts, I went through it 3 years ago, and have been going throught it again this year. All the veterans call it taking you lumps, or earning your stripes, keep forging on sooner or later you'll se the forest for the trees.
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It's nothing new for sure, but to me, seat time is the most important aspect of a potentially successful formula if you are new to this game. More seat time usually does away w/the new (young OR old) racer's early driving mistakes. Seat time calms you down. Seat time gets you to KNOW your car. Seat time gives you EXPERIENCE, which breeds good luck, imo. Breakage and parts carnage?....well that's usually not luck, but something most all new race combo's go thru until the weaknesses in certain parts (or in the driver, ha) are found.... Exceptionally detailed racecar preparation also tends to create success in this sport, but a seasoned, calm driver w/ intelligent tree savvy still is the biggest factor in putting on your win light.....Just another 2.2 cents worth from a for-the-moment-retired (since '05) and racecar-less racer now intently watching from the peanut gallery.:D WJ
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I love when Dan Fletcher writes his column for digger because I dont feel as bad when thing go wrong, Drooze took it to a whole other level. Half the fun is just getting there. I saw Dion luck this last week end at Mission good thing it rained and had time to fix it. I have a friend that blows trailer tires where ever he goes not one but how many in one trip. Me new computer, weather station, pager none of it work properly this weekend at Mission, pages 7.668 in my 12 second stocker about threw it in the river that reminds me got to call Don. Its all just part of racing
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It isn't their fault they get the red lights. They earned them. |
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Rich : said "If your racing people like....Dan Fletcher, Peter Biondo, Anthony Fetch, Lee Zane,and quite a few others your gonna need all the luck you can muster because even with luck your probably still going to lose......They don't win because they are lucky.....sometimes yes, but most of the time they win because they know way more than you do about what is about to happen when they go down the racetrack against you.......and you will make the mistake that will cost you the win before they do "
What you are saying is partially true , just about evyone in any sport does Practice makes perfect and a person wins cause they practice more in what ever sport you are in . this is a given so how does a person beat a person who is really good cause he has more practice than all others , "luck " is the word big time . now on occassion a person can win with out luck but very seldom. Most racers know exactely how to win just like the touring pros racers ,but the touring pros practice more and win more based on facts . don't say if you think you are beaten you are that is for someone who does not know how to race or a rookie or what ever ,me personally no one can control my emotions ,I just need some luck . LOL Let the touring pros comments begin so they can protect their advantage that they know they have over all others with more seat time only. :);):D __________________ |
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It has been said, in drag racing you have a 50% chance of winning, once you pull it up to staging......hmmm, SO many things can happen from that point on.....PS, my neighbor has a blind cat that catches a mouse once in awhile....:D WJ
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Reading your posts convinces me that when and if you have to race ove of these guys you're likely to fold up like a cheap wallet.You wpould seem to be besat before you strap yourself into the car. Back on topic,Chris,just keep going and try to cut out the distractions,especially living your life on here,and concentrate on making you and dad better drivers and getting the best feedback you can get on the car from those you trust.The rest will fall into place.If all else fails send Mandy to a course taught by Lee Zane and then turn her loose on NHRA stock eliminator. |
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ED : I doubt it LOL .
You don't know me I want to run the touring pros cause i on occasion have some luck and that is the only way most racers can beat them and they are scared of luck lol cause it is always mentioned when some one beats them lol at Ed and me |
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Thanks Ed, last year and the year before I had tons of seat time , but in a different type of car, TB and other items that well, DIDNT Translate as well as Id hoped, AND I got rusty on things I know NOT to do, Ive been caught "sleeping" at the wheel on 3 occasions just in testing because my eyes moved to a gauge I had more concern about than the tree.
I know these things, DOING them is a difference for me...... I dont like having to drive AND Wrench, its a distraction and I dont do both well, at the same time. So Im going to change that. I really could care less to drive once I get a record next to my name and for that the tree means nothing. So I am going to concentrate on what I do better of our little band of misfits and wrench. My dad is and always has been a better driver, hell hes better and always has been at pinball, video games and darts, and pool.....It took me 27 YEARS to Win 1 Game of Asteroids against him. Truth is I enjoy wrenching more, thats probably why ive owned over 100 motorcycles in my life, I build em I tune em, Im bored.....Lather Rinse Repeat. I would MUCH Rather Have the old man behind the wheel NOT CARING about the Mechanics and worrying ONLY about Driving, AND Getting the REQUIRED Seat time with this combo. And have Myself wrenching and sweating bullets every time the car goes down, and being at the ready for a spare engine in the pit, as well as tuning, pouring over logs, while having Mandie, helping wrench, organizing, taking care of paperwork with / for the old man and figuring things out like the track lay and where scales are :) To me it seem like an efficent separation of duties. What is now, was not meant to be, I was not supposed to be driving, I didnt want to and somehow, I think because of the joint effort and lack of ability to make the car available in running fashion to our original drivers, well My Old Man said, well drive it, meaning both of , us and because of HIS sense of fair play, we somehow decided to alternate sessions ? I dont know exactly how it happened but weve done it before..... So, the REFOCUS on my part is what I PERSONALLY fin Gratifying and Enjoyable. I have Built MYSELF with My own 2 Hands an engine that its FIRST Pass went faster than Roy Johnsons car was able to in testing. :) I built a bullet that I believe with good reason can hit the 9's as is. For that to happen I need to concentrate ONLY on the car....not seat time, not locating scales and tech. People like Art Leong, and many other, but I know and have met Art and talk with him occasionally, he does it all himself, to me that is downright amazing, 1 man, ALL of it, from building his car, to treking, to well....everything. Roys got a whole lot more money and resources than we do , and all ive got is my wits and my mouth, so to keep up with his car, and continue to exceed it. I think we can do it from a package perspective IF I am focused soley on the car, and dont care about driving it, and at events am not trying to do all the things I just dont/wouldnt ask my dad to do. Make sense ? Quote:
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Chris...Try this.....Plan to race the car somewhere where there is no long drive with some kind of basically insane amount of time to get there. Race it locally where there is no pressure. There is no fuel check and no weight check and all you need to do is show up.....ON TIME and pass tech. Make as many runs as you can. If the computer or the tune up is wrong.....well forgive me but you need a new "tuner" because it should sure as hell go down the racetrack if you dyno'ed the thing. Get enough battery power in the car along with a working alternator.......There is no reason an EFI car can't go up and down the racetrack numerous times with minimal difficulty and without a dead battery. My LT-1 Firebird did with one battery and an alternator. Never had a problem. I tuned my own ECU.....No dyno....Basically no help from anyone on the tuneup. I can't see why what you have should be that much more complicated.
You had professional help in the tuneup area.....so I am wondering why there are so many problems cropping up..... In the old days we raced our cars locally to get it as good as we could long before we ever went to say a National event. Of course there were very few national events but it makes very little sense to go to a national event and struggle with things you should have sorted out locally. Of course it's your choice to do anything you wish.......it's your time and money...... My advice....race it locally as much as possible to get it right and get the driver(s) comfortable........ |
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Greg : all of them:D:p
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If the computer or the tune up is wrong.....well forgive me but you need a new "tuner" because it should sure as hell go down the racetrack if you dyno'ed the thing.
Well, hitting and loosing collectors and being pushed off dosent wring out on the dyno, bad grounds, and other mechanical gremlins dont have anything to do with the tuner. Get enough battery power in the car along with a working alternator.......There is no reason an EFI car can't go up and down the racetrack numerous times with minimal difficulty and without a dead battery. At both Norwalk we had like 25 starts and runs to scales, fuel, tech etc and was only a nostart once, the last time, when it counted, after our collector fell off....AND You draw an immense amount less current...... we have what equates to 16 individual coild (8 COP packs with 2 windings) with 20 Amp Igniters....I can promise we suck on the average 2-3 times the juice of a single coild system at 120kv....that Ive got scope outs of. I tuned my own ECU.....No dyno....Basically no help from anyone on the tuneup. I can't see why what you have should be that much more complicated. The 10.59 pass was a tune I worked on from the 6.1 Dyno results. It was my tune. You had professional help in the tuneup area.....so I am wondering why there are so many problems cropping up..... The only issues have been the addition of new elements, 2 and 3 step. Those have in part been driver error in part other things, but they were new and failed after being tested, they have been changed and will be test My advice....race it locally as much as possible to get it right and get the driver(s) comfortable Agreed 100% thats also why Im removing myself from the driving pool except in case of emergency. It will give him more seat time and allow me to concentrate on the above items soley. In the next 2 weeks before Tenn, we plan to do just that, run the snot out of it, locally.... |
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[QUOTE=Chris "drooze" Wertman;190287][I]tuner.
we have what equates to 16 individual coild (8 COP packs with 2 windings) with 20 Amp Igniters....I can promise we suck on the average 2-3 times the juice of a single coild system at 120kv....that Ive got scope outs of QUOTE] No way all those coils are firing at the same time........they fire sequentially with the firing order.....or am I missing something......One MSD hi output coil vs 16? firing sequentially.......basically low current draw for short periods of time on 16? coils, probably not all that much higher overall amp draw than one continuous high output coil....,,Ever see the output of an MSD coil at about 6000-7000rpm? I have an MSD tester and it allows you to fire your ignition without running the engine......at any rpm. You can almost cut metal with the arc it can produce.....If I could add air to it and ionize it.....VIOLA.....Plasma Cutter........ |
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But on my little 4 cylinder. Coil over plug car, I need the alternator working to get the most out of the car. And I have a full sized battery up front, good grounds in multiple places, etc. If I turn off the alternator I lose a couple of hundred rpms. I tried this driving on the return road and its like hitting the brakes. If I run without the alternator on I lose 1 1/2 tenths. Even with the alternator on I lose a almost a tenth by leaving the electric fans on. The ECU is supposed to work at 11.5 volts (which it never gets down to). It just does the opposite of what you would expect. Small motor, low horsepower, I swore the alternator would slow me down. But it is the opposite. And I A-B-A tested it a few times. I believe it has something to do with the coil over plug. voltage requirements. |
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if you spent as much time with the car as you do writing and talking all this stuff on the computer i think you would be going -2 seconds under. lol ;)
Like i said before all the PPPPP's Good luck, and no curse just need to walk before you run, lol ;) |
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No way all those coils are firing at the same time........they fire sequentially with the firing order.....or am I missing something......One MSD hi output coil vs 16? firing sequentially.......basically low current draw for short periods of time on 16? coils, probably not all that much higher overall amp draw than one continuous high output coil....,,Ever see the output of an MSD coil at about 6000-7000rpm? I have an MSD tester and it allows you to fire your ignition without running the engine......at any rpm. You can almost cut metal with the arc it can produce.....If I could add air to it and ionize it.....VIOLA.....Plasma Cutter........[/QUOTE]
No we charge 1 coil PACK, which has 2 windings in it, WE light em with 20 amp igniters, most others 8amp, but at 9k WE can also throw a full arc across a .070 gap if we want without blowing out. Of course we only fire 1 cyl at a time, in order...... So Im firing 2 coils for every cyl fire, AND Im using 20amp igniters, hence I said, 2 to 3 times.....The stock coils fire at about 40kv we are kicking em off at over 90kv. In addition we have a 1 farad buffer capacitor for the igniton system. One of the BIG problems is there are no aftermarket coils suitable to anything other than 40kv, now Irv Johns and Doug Duell have proven this is adequate, BUT both have also found out that without 16v systems the cars run like crap, cut out and have start issues, both started with 12v systems.....(I may be wrong about Irv, he may be runnign 2 12v batteries) And we have the abilty and do turn our motor over 8k.... I WANTED to run 16 LS2 "Yukon" coils at 120kv but, well since the rule is "Stock Number of Coils" well....they are looking at that rule since it was intended to keep COP people from going to single coils not the other way around. So, trust me on this 2-3x the draw is correct....Ive got a 3 inch stack of scope outputs from the car that leave no question....... We had issues caused by other things that at one point we thought was a result of EM interference from this "Maximum Overkill" solution of mine, but it was a "quick and dirty" setup that leaves no issues on the ignition side. Make sense ? If I thought I was firing all the coils every cyl fire I would have said 16 or 20x the current draw.... |
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OK Chris,.....but in my old feeble mind.....all your really doing is the same thing as every other internal combustion engine with a battery powered ignition. Fire the spark at the right time with enough intensity to get a good flamefront. Hemi or not....it is moderate compression, not supercharged or turbo charged and is burning race gas. It doesn't really need anymore than any other engine. If your coils are overkill....your just wasting energy......A blisteringly hot spark is not going to make it run way faster than an adequate spark.
My Lt-1 had an MSD 7al and the box went bad. I installed a Digital 6 and the recommended coil.......The spark it could generate was as I said......more than enough to fire any sparkplug in any stocker engine........ Art.....I have no doubt your combination is somewhat different but it's a Turbo and a small engine......so I would think it is very sensitive to small changes....... I have a story I can tell about MSD's needing a minimum of xx volts to fire but just to make the story short........lets just say that I have made runs down the race track with a very low battery and no misfires whatsoever.......One of those runs was the final round of a National event...... |
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Hey Rich, I am interested...
Tell us about it. I am serious, it sounds like a good story. David The New Hemi Guy |
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David I can't really tell the story on here.
Low or weak batteries was often a problem in the past.... If you go rounds it happens........... Gear reduction low current draw starters and alternators and good batteries are a must! Stock starters and some batteries are just junk and don't belong in rcaecars...... |
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I would suggest you read a rule book before commenting about my car. |
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Art I don't know why your feeling like I said something wrong about your car.....all I meant was it's a very different combo and might be effected more than others on some things.
I try to have fun with Drooze......if you think I'm being harsh.....so be it...... |
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Read a rule book |
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Art - I think your turbo is broke, your car should go much faster!
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I typed up a whole long tech explanation last night and the browser froze. Arts car isnt a Turbo, and basically he runs the same system but half, 4 of em , we even have the same crank trigger. What it boils down to is, in our coils, each (the Hemi) there are 2 windings....1 for each plug. So that in itself takes double the juice each cyl fire, (2 plugs per cyl) Now, we didnt listen in the beginning and figured a 12v system would be adequate we heard about half on each side.....so we figured wed try for 12v....well since then the other half has defected to 16v because the issues with juice, starts, rough runs, etc. Now , our 20 amp igniters, which suck over double the juice of the 8amp igniters well, they cure the run problems, but dont help the start issues at all....and can make it worse since you dont see or feel it coming. We had 20+ starts and pit runs, warmups, tech, staging, scales, etc when we were last a nostart. 2 min on a charger would have saved us....but well too many frantic moments and no juice , our generator was down. So live and learn, Id like to go back to the 8 amp igniters because of EM noise, then I could just go 16v like all the other DP's have found is pretty much a neccesity (or two batts)...... Cheers Chris... |
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OH..I get it....It's not a Turbo......Maybe I had to many beers when I typed that reply......
For some reason I thought it was a Stock type engine that came with a Turbo.....My bad.... |
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My stocker with a turbo ran near as fast as my superstocker. Did you think I was that incompetant? |
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