Schubek Lifters
 

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Re: Schubek Lifters
 

Daryl Wikle is a rep for Smith. He provided mine two months ago. His number is 316-942-9500

Sean

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Smith Machine out of Cedar City, Utah now is the builder of these lifters. My understanding is he is the old shop foreman when they were in vegas. Better buy a bunch because the quality control is even worse than before......First set two broken plungers and one bottom that came loose in first set I bought in first five runs!!!

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Your lucky you found the problem before it got real serious. I can attest to the damages when one of the pucks do come off. :mad:

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Two engines, never put them in my car again! Use the steel billet or the ones with EDM and ramp up the spring pressure.
Casey Miles
248H

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So have you had problems with the Schubeck or the Smith lifters?

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I had Schubeck and I'm not say that they aren't a good product,but I still wouldn't take a chance on anything like them any longer. If you even chip one, get ready to take the motor out , buy new pistons and also reboring the block. Never mind all the other small parts you have to replace. (oil pump, camshaft, bearings, and on and on.)
Casey Miles
248H

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I know its beating a dead horse but if the valve spring rule had never been changed to any pressure the lifter problem and cost would not be there. NHRA should have just gone ot a standard pressure across the board for all models and brands of engines that would allow equal performance for everyone without the expense of using something like a Shubeck type lifter...... something around 150 lbs on the seat and 350 lbs open and these hi RPM shift points would go away (more savings) . Oh well then they would have to check valve spring pressures at tear down again. To much work I guess.

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Yep ,Terry. Then you wouldn't need weldments added to the pushrod cup on OEM type rockers, only on certain brands.

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So what we have is another Super Stock class with a tire size limit and spec cam lift. The heads are "almost" the same....lol.

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i have had 4 of them break , stay away from them

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4 From which manufacturer, Schubeck or Smith?

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I've been running/using my Schubek lifters for quite a few years now,never a problem.

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I had my first Schubeck failure using the exotic all composite body. It shattered. Had to replace all the bearings and rings. I lost a second engine to a puck coming off. Broke the camshaft and took out two rods and pistons. That was the end of that experiment.
Great idea as long as everything works as advertised. But if it doesn't...

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If the shubecks and new shubecks (Smith) aren't viable options what hydraulic SBC lifters you guys recommend ?

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schubecks purchased in 2004

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Yeah, what Michael said.......

Where do you get the billet steel lifters?

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There were many problems with the Schubeck lifters. I've sold about 50 sets of the Smith lifters with zero failures to date. I would like to hear of any problems with the Smith lifters.

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Tool steel lifters are sold by Ferrea, Performance Research Incorporated, and Precision Performance Products.

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I second Precision Products Performance Center
Talk to Deb or Chuck
They can give you some coating options too.
[URL="http://www.pppcenter.com"]

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My problems above mentioned were with the new smiths lifters..... my friend just destroyed his 340 engine last week with the punk coming off and busting his cam with another brand new set of Smiths. These things are expensive junk with a nonexistant warrantee, built by people who could care less about your problems. This has not changed over the years no matter what name is on their business!!! John Irving 741 Stk/SS

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They should have never been allowed in the first place. They are WAY outside of the intent of Stock rules.
Back in the day of Greg X and Marty Barrett, can you imagine if you took a stock lifter and machined off the bottom and replaced it with a ceramic puck?
You and your parts would have been bounced out of the barn so fast , you would have been hit in the a** with a broom on the way out.

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Bob,

No matter what you post here someone will hijack the thread for their own personal reasons.....postings seem to take on a life of their own.

JimR

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Most of the problems people are having with the Schubek lifters breaking are the same that the guys who break roller lifters have. NOT ENOUGH SPRING PRESSURE. (everything bounces then breaks)

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Bob Gullet,
I have his number at my shop. I have been a dealer of the SM lifters since 2007. If you call me at my shop, I can give you his contact info.
Like B&B said, I have had no reported problems with SMITHS Lifters. I have sold over 75 sets since 2007. I have never had a problem getting in touch with Bob. I just talked to him last week when I ordered another set. He said that he was sick for a couple of weeks, maybe that is why he was hard to get in touch with.
Not doubting what GTX John or some other people posted(anything is possible and everyone has made a mistake), but you have to have everything else set up for these lifters for them to work. Also, there were many problems with the original shubecks, but the SM lifters are different.

Jeff Day
#3731

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I was at Indy's tear down barn in 2004, this was right after the Pro Stock cars were told no exoctic material allowed in the motors. So I asked the tech director why was exoctic materials were allowed in Stock Eliminator's engines and he quizzed me on what I was talking about. So I told him that about the Schubeck lifters and that they are made of an exoctice material. Also I told him that you can't buy them in any ordinary dealership or auto parts store. Boy did that open up a can of worms with some of the racers in the barn.
Casey Miles
248H

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I knew somebody with a 220 horse 283.He ran 90-100 on the seats, and this thing used to break rocker studs.He did it enough that we wondered what went on here. Valvetrain separation caused it caused by the low spring pressures. I bought a set of Smiths lifters two years ago,and am just getting ready to use them with a steel billet Bullet cam, 7/16" rocker studs,Elgin rockers, and was fixing to set the springs at 200 on the seats,400 over the nose. Floating the valves smacks the base into the cam lobe, and the resultant impact shatters it. They don't seem to like mechanical lifter camshafts,either,and the same thing happens. I don't think there would be a problem in the event of rocker arm or push rod breakage, since the lifter would be up and out of the way in a hurry. Is there a better lifter to use with this steel camshaft,or are Smiths the thing to use?I like the idea of being able to change cams without breaking in a set of lifters each time. Any responses?

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I'm not aware of any steel lifter that you can move from camshaft to camshaft without having the lifters refaced and polished. At this point, I'm not really satisfied with the DLC coating as it is applied to lifters, either. NASCAR teams have a nearly unlimited budget, and they still have problems with the coating coming off of their lifters on a somewhat regular basis.

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Coat the cam and shine the lifters. DLC is abrasive I think it spins the lifter better when the cam is coated. Esp. when more taper is ground on the cam and the lifters are crowned to match.
.02 for free....

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Bob,

These threads do take on a life of their own. I hope you get the information you need.

I have Schubek lifters in three motors with no running problems. But, ol Joe did send me a bad set once and it took months to get a good set out of him. Bub taught me how to check them out and set them up. I ain't skeerd!

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Im considering some Smith Machine Composite lifters... Ive read all the bad stuff about them, and its got me wondering... Is everybody just over revving their engines? Or, are these things not as good as they claim to be? I cant imagine, that, revving to 6500-6700, and having 180-200lbs on the seat(not the driver's seat..hehe), there wouldnt be any problems... My other question, at this point, is, are they worth it? Is a regular lifter, with EDM , a good way to go?

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Been there done that with composite lifters, Identical engines some lifters have lived and some didn't and the ones that didn't made a mess in the engine.

Since then I have gone to the Tool steel lifters and no problems so far.

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Can you use tool steel lifters on a cast iron cam, with no problems? Are spring pressures the same as composite? EDM hole?

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Same spring pressures you would run with a cast iron lifter. The tool steel lifters you can send back and have them resurfaced for around 100 dollars.

Tool steel lifters on a cast cam core is not a problem.

I have used some with a EDM hole and some with out and have not seen any difference.

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DLC coatings are a lot like oil. There are as many different kinds as there is oil. These coatings are still in their embryoinc stages. There is coatings made for low pressure loads, high pressure loads, vapor load , non vapor loads and yep you guess it what ever you want to talk about. You talk about NASCAR. Ya cant even compare the 2. Those guys want to finish one race with as little spring pressure as you can get by with. Everything in that motor is so finely tunes, that if you pass gas near one of them and it ingest it, something will burn up cause they didnt git to test it that way. That unlimited money is to git it light and keep it together. There are good DLC companies and then there are just coating companies. So dont lump them all together and say the coating dont work. Friction coefficient can be as low as .04 and hardness can be as hard as
3500Hv. Crap now ya got me started.
reed

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There was a good thread about the tool steel lifters on hear a few months ago. Might want to try a search and see what comes up. I like what I read about them, and they are much more affortable than the Smiths.

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Are you sure about that Jeff what is every thing set up.? Some guys have not had trouble with them. becks or smith and other have if there is a setup for them lets hear it. Jim Hanig

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Im guessing that the problems are coming from: too much ramp, too much RPM(Valve float) and not enough spring, is what causes the problems... Everything has a limit...even roller cams... i would like to hear from all the guys that arent having trouble with Smiths or even older Shubecks...These are guys that are probably running less than 7k through the traps...

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We run the Smith lifters in both of our motors and go through the traps at 7600-7800 and have had no trouble.