Stock or Super Stock
 

Fellows,
I've got a question about which way I should go with a car that I just purchased. I bought a 1963 Z code (390) Galaxie XL that is completely bone stock with the original engine and automatic transmission. I'm going to fix it up for drag racing as I've already got a 57 Fairlane cruiser for show and go.
Should I build the car to keep it in the Stock class or should I build it for the Super Stock class. From what I've been able to read you almost need the window sticker to run in the stock class. Where as you can modifiy the engine and chassis somewhat in the Super Stock class. Money is an object so I thought I'd ask you guys since you've already been there. Any responses will greatly be appreciated. Street racing and two or three bracket races is all I've done before. I rebuild all my old cars engines and have done some modification work before. Example: I'm running a 300 hp 390, TKO 600, 3.70 posi W/ disc brakes, frt and rear sway bars etc. in my 57 now and all the modifications and grunt work was done by me. Jim

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Stock is not for the faint of heart, talent or money; super stock more so. To build a car that is fun to race looses all the charm when your the slow guy in the class.
I would suggest you restore the car and throw some performance up grades at it; maybe keep the general theme of Stock Eliminator with suspension and induction but not worry about the trick of the week stuff inside of the engine.

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Interesting combination. Assuming that is the 390 rated at 300HP it has an NHRA factored HP of 280 for stock and 300 for S/S. If it happens to be a 390/330HP then the NHRA factor is 330 for both stock and S/S. From the blueprint specs the only difference between the two is the camshaft which is a 0.408" lift on the 300HP and 0.465" on the 330HP. Otherwise they look identical, same compression (11.0:1) and same carb (a 1.12 venturi Autolite 4100).

The carb is going to be the biggest limitation. It is only about 535 CFM on a good day, and you have to use it in both stock and S/S.

The shipping weight on the 500 XL is 3924 lbs with an automatic. It's natural stock class is M/SA with the 300/280 factored engine so you could run L/SA, M/SA or N/SA by adding or subtracting weight. If it's the 330/330 it is a natural H/SA so you could run G/SA, H/SA or I/SA.

It would make no sense to run it as a 390/330 in super stock since you can use any cam you want so you would claim it as a 390/300 regardless of what it was originally. You would run in SS/KA, SS/LA or SS/MA by juggling the weight.

All of that changes a little if you were to use the Edelbrock aluminum heads which are approved for that engine. They carry an 8HP adder in stock and 5HP adder in S/S. From what I know about FEs, your better off with the OEM iron heads in most cases, especially in stock.

If you ran in H/SA with the 390/330 engine you would need to get the minimum weight 3865 lbs down the track in around 11.50 to stand a chance in a heads-up race. The index for H/SA is 12.45 so you have to at least go that quick. There are a lot of quick cars in G/H/I stock.

These days stockers are a long way from stock. You can't back-half the car but there are still a LOT of things you can do to the suspension, front and rear. Engines and transmissions have a lot of trick stuff (i.e. expensive). If you do S/S you can backhalf and put in a ladder bar or four-link and run up to 14.5" tires and everything is even more expensive..

Now, if I were you and had a crapload of money, I'd stick a 425HP 427 with two four BBL carbs in that thing along with a Jerico and run it in B or C stock. If you need to run an automatic you could do a 410HP 406 with three two-barrels and run C/SA or D/SA. Paint it to look like Barney Fife's police car and you would have a real show-stopper!

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Jeff and Bill,
I'm on the wrong forum. I think I need to be on the Bracket Forum. You guys have scared me to death. I spent my life building airplanes and dabbling in cars. Dabbling doesn't look like it's going to cut it if I need to be competitive in class racing. Also my brain can only hold so much information. Any new information I get I've got to forget something I once knew to absorb the new information. I've already forgotten everything that happened to me before the age of 18.
Seriously, I'm going to fix this car up with a set of tires, some good stock heads, intake, headers and cam and a performance transmission along with a decent posi and traction bars and go bracket racing. THEN, if I do respectable times I'll rethink class. I looked at some of the NHRA records and it's amazing what you guys accomplish. Thanks for the information. Jim

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Jim , I don't know what part of the country you're in , but if you're Central or East Coast , how about Nostalgia Super Stock? All you need is an FE type engine and you could run off an 11.50 or 12.00 index.
That wouldn't even require a roll bar.
Do a search for Texas Outsiders Racing and Midwest Nostalgia Super Stock

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Jim, class racing is tough, but that is a lot of the allure of it. If it was easy, anyone could do it, and more people would. There's nothing wrong with NOT running in class racing, nor is there anything wrong with backing up to take another look. I hope your current plan works well for you and you come back and give class a try later.

My first advice to anyone considering Stock is that just because you have a particular car, or you love a particular car, that doesn't mean that is the car you should race in Stock. If you want to run Stock, you should do a lot of research until you find a combination that you can make competitive and that you like. If you happen to have one or truly love that car, then that's just icing on the cake.

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Jim,

I think you'll be happier in brackets, but my advice would be Nostalgia Super Stock. It's a bunch of nice guys with cars just like your's.

JimR

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Jim, JR and Mark beat me to it. I have an NSS car. Think of us as drag racing's version of the Civil War reanactors.:D

There are several associations around. As they used to ask in the seventies "what's your twenty, good buddy?"

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Dago,
I'm located in North Central Indiana. I used to fly down to Ft. Worth to the Nascar Race every year. I've got to say you Nascar Fans are probably the cleanest, polite, friendly and most well behaved rednecks I've ever been around. I'm not saying you don't party, you just don't party at someone else's expense. You can't go to a race up here unless you get drowned in beer and a drunk spends the whole time aggrivating you and your wife during the race.
The reason I posted here was to get an idea of what to do with my car ( that's arriving today ). I don't want to change anything on the car that would disqualify me to race in anything but bracket. I can race my pickup in bracket, while it's fun, there's only pride in yourself, not your car. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. When I bought my 57 Fairlane for $4500 off ebay I didn't realize I would eventually sink 50K into it before I was happy with it. Soooo, pride must mean something to me.
I think I'll stick to stock as much as possible because it seems there's more accomplishment achieved in performing well with stock. It just looks like I might have choosen the wrong car to accomplish it in. Jim
PS BTW I'm a hillbilly, Ky bred.

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

hey jim if your a 4speed kind of guy you could put a 4speed in it and race with the umtr thats based out of ohio(cincinnati and cleveland)and its bracket racing and have 2 classes one being for street type cars.the only rules are no electronic driving devices and has to have 3 pedals and driver makes the gear changes.go to www.umtrdragrace.com and check out the website

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Dago,
I just got through reading about the NSS and NMC. That sounds interesting and my car qualifies for either of those classes along with Bracket. At least there's 7 of the last 9 events that are close to home. Jim

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Hey Jim, didn't mean to scare you off, just letting you know that the car does fit into several stock classes and has potential, but not for free.

If you want to keep it close to stock then there isn't any reason you couldn't run it as a 390/300 factored to 280 by the NHRA. It wouldn't take a ton of work to do that since you have the stock engine and (hopefully) carb. M/SA index is only 13.15 and you could probably get it to run that and better without spending a fortune.

The car has a leaf spring rear suspension with a 9" which is great and all you would need is a set of springs, shocks and bars from Calvert. 9" slicks would probably fit just fine in the wheelwells with the right offset wheel. You'd need a steep gear and a locker or spool and good axles, especially since min weight in M at 280HP is 4090 Lbs with you in the car.

Don't know what the front suspension looks like on these things but a set of lightweight wheels and tires and some loose shocks would get you started.

You could have the short block professionally rebuilt with the stock rods and a set of CP pistons and get Bullet to grind you an appropriate stocker cam. Have Blair Patrick do the heads.

The car probably has a Ford-o-matic trans which would need to be replaced with a prepped C4 and the appropriate converter, but that is easy.

It would be a cool car and with some work it might be quite competitive in class. Depending on what the car really weighs in race trim you might want to run L/SA instead with a 13.00 index and a min race weight of 3950 lbs.

If you set it up to run NHRA and IHRA stock class, you could still run the NSS an NMC events.

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

From the 2006 PA Dutch Classic:

155 1390 K/S Craig Jernigan, Lewisburg PA, '63 Galaxie 12.647 12.85 -0.203

He was at my S/SS race in Maryland two weeks ago. When the pictures come back, I will post a few on here of the car.

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Sorry to disappoint you Jim, but the only thing NASCAR does for me is make me nauseous.
I took a year and went to as many NHRA/IHRA races as I could swing as well as any NSS/NMC style events I could find. I just wasn't up for the challenge and dedication required to run a class car, but liked the mild to wild parameters in NSS.

Re: Stock or Super Stock
 

Guys,
I'm the biggest skeptic in the world, I've lived too long to believe anything anymore but I got the surprise of my life. The 63 Galaxie arrived this morning. This car was not undercoated and lived in New Mexico all it's life. It's perfect. Not a spec of surface rust other than the rear spings. I laid under it for an hour today just looking for rust. I could have wept with happiness. This is the third car I've bought off ebay and this is the only one that ended up being what the guy said it was. Everythings original, carb, dist, heads, Cruise O Matic etc. And to top it off it's got a new radiator and interior. Now all I have to do is throw 20K at it and I'll have a car to go racing with. Jim