'66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

With all the discussion of the '66 Dodge D-Dart lately, thought you might like to see one that went through the Mecum Indy auction recently. The bidding went to $40,000 but it did not reach the reserve price.

http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...9&entryRow=671

Travis

(Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

They should have sold it for that kind of money. It looks "BOGUS" (non stock parts) just from the under the hood pictures. Its amazing what some people are trying to pass off at these auctions and get such crazy money for. Especially the BJ ones in Arizona and Fla.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Bogus in what respect?I see an updated M/C,good safety move.Looks like a CSR water pump,maybe a little bogus.
It is supposedly Galen Govier certified.If so then Govier is an asshole (I don't think so) or the guy is a lying SOB.Or maybe it's just Terry blowing smoke out of his *** again.
I,ve been known to have my moments of negativity but terry you bring it to new heights.
Flame away.

Ed F.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

yes ed galen govier is a flaming a$$hole!!!!!! The worst thing to happen to the mopar universe.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Without going back to look at the engine picture again I remember seeing a dual master cylinder, proportioning valve,neither of which were on 66 Darts, wrong intake manifold (they sure dont look like that one), wrong air cleaner, etc. I know these cars very well....I drove one at Aqusco in 1966 before I was drafted in the Army that belonged to a friend but alas we were outrun by the Bob Banning Bounty Hunter "D" Dart each and every time....lol. And yes I know Tom Sneden who drove the Bounty Hunter very well. Im more familiar with the D Darts and early mopars than you may think and my friend also owned a 1965 Formula S 235 HP Barracuda with an automatic that he drove. And you my friend have shown that you are again....an *** !

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Before anyone asks my friend (car owner) was a David Wallace (we went to high school together). He was shot and killed during the time I was in the Army while he was on duty as a U.S. Park Police officer near Wash. D.C.. I dont remember what his family did with either car as I didnt get back until late 1967 and didnt get out of the Army and back home until 1969. By then I was into Z-28's and Corvettes.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The air cleaner doesn't look correct. The way the fuel line is routed on the inner fender panel doesn't look right. Also, it looks like it has the small rear axle assembly by the looks of the small bolt pattern on the wheels. I had a 64 1/2 Barracuda, and 2 65 Formula S cars at one time or another and as I recall, you couldn't get a ring and pinion over a 3:23 in it because the case was so small 7 1/4 I think. Does anyone know the gear ratio the D cars came with?

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Chrysler offered a 3.91 for the 7.25 rear axle.
I had several 65 and 66 273 Formula S Barracuda's and installed them in every one several times.
Untill I got tired of breaking them and finally put a 8.75 from a wrecked 67 383 Dart.
Also all A bodies from 64 thru 69 had 4 inch bolt circle hubs.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The D's came with an 8 3/4 and 4.86 gears.

Jim

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Someone else might know the answer to this one but I thought these cars came with radio/heater deletes yet this one obviously has a heater blower motor. The master cyl is wrong, same with proportioning valve which also points to disc's on the front. Original intake was 273/235 unit bored out to fit same size as max wedge carb butterflys.

Jim

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

So I guess Govier is an asshole for accrediting this car.And I guess the owner is a lying SOB.And I guess I'm an *** too for missing some of the other fine points of this car.I'm a bad boy and I'm going to my room now.


Ed F.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The real idiot is the owner that did not "roll this sled" at $40 k--I have attended a # of BJ auctions and I thought Galen Govier certification is the Mopar gold standard --there is another guy that is passed off as the Ford guru -- Is he bogus??

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The biggest problem with a 'Galen Govier certified car' is that there are a lot more cars out there than Galen ever certified. I know Galen and he does have his moments, but his name does get attached to many frauds he had nothing to do with.

With all the obvious changes I seriously doubt Galen 'certified' it.

This auction is where two fools met. One for offering $40K for that car, and the other for not taking it.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Quote by owner "This particular example is documented with an decoding by expert Galen Govier which states that it was produced on April 17, 1966 as a special order assembled at the Hamtramck, MI plant as a Dodge Super Stock D-Dart"

If what he says is true the car was certified with paperwork by Govier.If not then he's a fraud.


Ed F.
Just an old ***

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The Dart that was auctioned use to belong to a guy who lives in Florida, He actually owned two, the one you see on this thread and the old Ted Sphere D/Dart. Here's a link to a site that he frequents. He knows the history of the car depicted here. Apparently from what he told me he sold the car to the guy with the original engine on a pallet. He kept some parts for his other D dart. If I can remember correctly he made the mods you see on the car, M/C, water pump etc. to drive the car on the street. He's pretty knowledgeable about these cars. I'm not sure if he or the current owner had GG inspect the car. The guy who bought this car probably had plans to flip it and make some bucks. I'll bet the reserve was way more than the 40K. I think it was last month the guy from Florida said the car was going to be auctioned. Anyway, here's the site.



http://www.seriousviewers.com/D-Dart/ddart.htm

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

You have to understand collector car "status" is in the details. Is this an LO23D 1966 "D" Dart" Presumably, as long as the VIN is not altered. Would Govier certify it as an original? Most certainly, as in "this is an original D Dart of which only 50 were produced".
Does it have the correct drive-train? That's open for debate. But it does appear it is an original D Dart whether it has a slant 6 or a 426 Hemi under the hood is a point that takes away value.
My prediction was about $20K and a no sale. I got the no sale part right but never imagined it would be that high. I would suspect shill bidding. Happens all the time. :eek:

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The Dart that was auctioned use to belong to a guy who lives in Florida, He actually owned two, the one you see on this thread and the old Ted Sphere D/Dart. Here's a link to a site that he frequents. He knows the history of the car depicted here. Apparently from what he told me he sold the car to the guy with the original engine on a pallet. He kept some parts for his other D dart. If I can remember correctly he made the mods you see on the car, M/C, water pump etc. to drive the car on the street. He's pretty knowledgeable about these cars. I'm not sure if he or the current owner had GG inspect the car. The guy who bought this car probably had plans to flip it and make some bucks. I'll bet the reserve was way more than the 40K. I think it was last month the guy from Florida said the car was going to be auctioned. Anyway, here's the site.


OK X Tech Bite me...... You're an expert allright.In sticking your foot in your mouth.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I never said it was not a "D" Dart. It is a very poor restoration with a lot of miss matched parts. Originality is what makes a restoration worth money along with history documentation. Yes the D darts had the 8.75 rear with 4.86 gears. That was a problem that the "Golden Cammandos" had when racing thier 273235 HP Barracuda with a 4-speed. NHRA would not allow the 8.75 rear they tried to run and the smaller rear broke a lot. They ended up running AHRA as that association body allowed the larger rear. They later ran Modified Production in NHRA to be able to use the larger rear. The car I drove (for 4 weekends) only ran high 13's because the engine was never taken apart $$$$$ and blueprinted. We drove to the track in those days. We couldnt afford a trailer AND a tow car. We were young, poor, and didnt know all that much about all of it back then. Guys like Tom Sneden of the Bounty Hunters were good people and never looked down on guys like us who wanted to learn.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Guys,

Galen only certified that the car was a factory built D/Dart.....nothing else. Any changes or modifications done to the car are not his concern. He is not a judge who would have noticed these changes, all he does is verify the cars authenticity.

Jim

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Previous post by you know who:They should have sold it for that kind of money. It looks "BOGUS" (non stock parts) just from the under the hood pictures. Its amazing what some people are trying to pass off at these auctions and get such crazy money for. Especially the BJ ones in Arizona and Fla

"bogus" "amazing what some people try to pass off".
Back pedal any harder and your head will be through the windshield.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Here's another '66 Dodge D-Dart photo.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2843724150082607023PbQLsK


Travis

(Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions. And I did not mean to cause such controversy, but then that can happen with differing views.)

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

No back pedeling here. Your just one of those type of people who ALWAYS have to have the last word so have at it. No one cares including me. I still say its a piss poor "BOGUS" attempt at a restoration like a lot of the cars that end up at an auction. You must be getting a "kick back" from the proceeds from this cars sale to protest what poor ole dumb assed me has to say about it. If he could have goitten $40,000 he should have kissed the buyer on the lips.You wouldnt know a decent restoration if it ran over your foot while it was in your mouth. Have at it NOO JOOSEY GUY no one on here really give a ****. Especially me. They are just being entertained by your comments

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

And what do you know about kissing guys on the lips?Are you coming out of the closet?Getting the last word in on know it all's is fun.I don't know the owner but it seems like a real nice car,even with the slight
enhancements.But a "purist" like you can't see that.
It must suck to be an old washed up tech man.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I was the second owner of the D/Dart (last three of the VIN -- 933) that was at the Mecum Auction. Up until 2 years ago, I owned both the car that went up for auction and also Ted Spehar and Ralph Costa's old racecar called "The Politician" (the first D/Dart built -- 888).

The original owner of 933 was a guy named Andy Caldwell. He bought it "New" from a dealership somewhere in the DC area where he was stationed. He said he raced it for one year at Aquasco. I think he then was assigned somewhere in California. He told me he drove the car in California for 70,000 miles with the 4.86 gears in it. The car had a 3.23 open rear in it when I bought it.

When I bought it, in the trunk were the original Doug's headers, the factory y-pipe, a pair of 36" header extensions, the 4.86 posi unit, the factory hubcaps, and the wheel lip moldings. Not a bad haul. It also had a decoded VIN and fender tag sheet from Galen. Not sure if Galen even saw the car in person.

I sold it less carb, carb spacer, air cleaner, choke cable, headers, y-pipe, 4.86 gears. But the original engine when with it.

The body on the car was really solid. I was told by the guy I sold it to that he sent it some 500 miles away to a really good bodyman. I'm sure he did a good job on it. I was making it into a driver so that's why the newer master cylinder and proportioning valve were put in. And no, it does not have disc brakes. The engine was another 273 that I bought along the way to drive the car. Nothing really fancy.

The fuel lines on the D/Dart were routed up over the inner fender, by the factory, to clear the headers. The cars were not -- heater delete. Just radio delete.

I heard from the guy that runs the D/Dart web site that the reserve on the car was $50K. He was watching the live feed on the Mecum site. I think that would have been a fair price for the car.

Just talked to a guy that just taked to Bob Banning. Bob Banning Dodge got about 7 or 8 D/Darts back in 1966. Bob learned how to drag race in one of them.

Alan

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

It looks like the D/Dart is going back on the Mecum auction block this Saturday, October 3rd. It'll be interesting to see what it goes up to this time. Looking at the auction site pictures, they put a set of coated headers on it and a set of Cragar S/S mags. Looks good but there's still a few things that should have been corrected on it.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I agree as stated on the A body site. Too bad, I would of liked to restore that thing. Anyone interested here's the link.


http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_de...8&entryRow=626

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

QUOTE:
"This particular example is documented with an decoding by expert Galen Govier which states that it was produced on April 17, 1966 as a special order assembled at the Hamtramck, MI plant as a Dodge Super Stock D-Dart"

Oh really??

Just what is a "Super Stock D Dart?"

Was it built to run Super Stock D?

Did Galen Govier REALLY say all of that?

Is he THAT ignorant???

Wonder if he'd be enchanted to find out that his high-dollar opinion is being mis-quoted?

I don't think the guy who wrote that has a CLUE as to what he's talking about, neither does he have a CLUE as to what that car is worth in today's depressed economy.

Maybe he's about to find out.... again.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Can someone in the know please tell me if the D Darts had the rectangular "box" exhaust tip at rear bumper? I distinctly remember my friend's 273 Commando/motored 4 sp. '66 Valiant convert. having this box-style exhaust tip from the factory...Thanks. WJ

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

It came with the factory installed HIPO 273 exhaust system on the car. So, yes it did have the rectangular tipped resonator on it. The headers, y-pipe and hubcaps were in the trunk - for dealer installation.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Galen verified that it's a D-Dart, not the modifications.

Mecum tries to over sell a car they know nothing about and the owner knows even less about the car than they do.

This is a 20K car at best and maybe less in today's economy. These cars have no historical value, aren't milestone cars and are not fir for anything but street driving today...racing them is pretty much out of the question without a bunch of work and the HRA's changing hp no's.

JimR

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

D-Dart Followers,
Remember, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".
The value of a D-Dart is difficult to pin-point.
Hard to imagine the owner passing up a bid of $40,000.
Now, if it was one of the D-Darts with a photo history with the likes of
(ie; "The Politician", "Little Ramchargers", "Crouch & Richardson",
"Porach Dodge" or "Suburban Dodge") than possibly the value would
be well worth the purchase.
Maybe, even the white D-Dart that was featured in Car Craft magazine,
back in May 1966. White, with Cragars, and a posted ET of 14.33 on
the window. (Wherever that car might be?)
As for calling people names. That's reserved for Chevy and Ford
competitors;). You Mopar guys must stick together. :rolleyes:
As for Galen Govier (GTS). His information should be used as a tool in
documenting a car, not the "End all and be all". He is providing legend information, but remember, he was not there when the car was built.
As for the D-Darts. Remember, the cars were built in 1966, the only year the car fit that class D/Stock. In 67' they were in C/S, and in 68' F/S and so on. The real value in this car is the mystery that surrounds it. Really, does anyone remember seeing a D-Dart race. Maybe a few. How many were really produced. Were 50 produced in April 1966. Did Dodge
send a true (purchase/owner) list to the NHRA, for classification. Those are legitimate questions. The main problem with the cars, is that
though several were out there racing, none ever established any true
dominant presence. The strength in the car was the mystery behind it,
or should I say "mistaken belief".
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,
Thanks for the reply. It was well said.

I'm one of the guys that love the little D/Darts and that's why I search for information on the cars. That's also why I bought the two of them when they went up for sale. I'm lucky I have an understanding wife. The only reason that I sold the one was because the buyer was willing to pay me what I wanted for it.

To the best of my knowledge, they did make 50 cars. By my records, "The Politician" was the first car built with the VIN 888. A gentleman in Ga. ownes car number 937. That would make 50 cars. I have the current owners names, VINs and S/O numbers on 8 additional cars (that still exist) that fall between these two VIN's. I also have paperwork for the Poarch Dodge that falls between the 888 and 937 VINs.

The second owner of Ted's old D/Dart ran it in L/SA at Lapeer Dragway in 1970. He sold it to Al Adam in 1971. I was never able to get any info from Al on the car as to what class and what it ran when he had it.

With all this D/Dart talk, I think I'm going to have to take the car for a quick jaunt around the block. I think I'll have to wait till Monday when all the kids are in school and the parents are at work.
Alan Hvizdos

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
Thank you for the kind reply.
Just trying to helpful. Good for you, on the (2) D-Darts. Especially on
the first one produced. Ted Spehar, excellent Mopar performance
technician. Put together several Mopar Drag cars.
Ted, got one of the original 65' A-990 S/SA Hemi cars back in early 65' (#14 car). Ran it out of his Birmingham, Michigan shop.
As for the car running in L/SA back in 70'. That doesn't compute.
Unless it was running in some AHRA designation.
The D-Dart in 1970 (NHRA classification) would have been classed in
G/Stock (10.71 wt/hp), with all the 289/271 HP K-Code 65'/66' Mustangs.
The L/SA designation ?. Did he switch over to an automatic. Our
273/235 HP 67' Cuda was running in K/Stock in 1970.
I'll post more later.
Good HI-Po Hunting.......Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Ok guys, results of todays bidding. The D/Dart, Lot S47 was a no sale with bidding stalled at $35,000. Guy should of taken the money and run. I would still love to have that car.

I should also note that a 63 Dart resto/mod sold today for 63K. Go figure!!

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I envy you Alan. I would love to have one of those cars

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

No sale at Mecum. Price $35,000. This may not be real money since it was a no sale. I never trust the money on a no sale.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Never trust the money on an auction "sale" either. Too many of the supposed big dollar sales have been proven to be shill auctions or outright frauds.

Not hating here, but I can not understand the car not selling for $35K. The early A bodies are an odd lot with not much of a following, and the D-Darts just don't have that much history. A good early A will rarely ever go over $10K, I'd think $35K would be a gift.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Well put "bigshow296".
Without any history (Paper-trail) hard to think the owner passed up a
legitimate offer of $35,000.
FECARMAN may be closer to the truth, "Monopoly" money!!!

If you look closely at this car, many things do not look correct. I'm no expert, but I know a little. I'll list errors later:confused:
The Ellis Collection lists the car as "described as"
And also states; "This particular example"
And Galen Govier decoding states that the D-Dart was built at
Hamtramck on April 17, 1966.
But, was THIS car built their on THIS date, and is THIS car an original
D-Dart?
Message to the owner.. That was a generous offer $35,000.
Message to the buyer...."Caveat emptor"
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,
Yes it is a true D/Dart. I'll vouch for it. Having spent many hours working on this particular car, I learned a lot about the D/Darts and how to verify ones authenticity. There are a lot of things wrong on the car. I could make a list a lot longer then yours. But I won't. I just hope they fix the blatient mistakes before it goes on the block again.

At $35-$40K, I don't think they would break even on the car. With it being a 1 of 50 car, they put a lot of money into it. I'd like to see it go for $50K or more. That would make my other one a little more valuable.
Alan

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I told you guys a long time ago that it was a poor restoration. Those cars are not worth anywhere near that kind of money no matter how much is invested to restore them.