4 cylinder cars?
 

OK, I have my car picked out and mostly apart, and now the wife thinks she may want to have one too. So, I thought, let's try a 4 cylinder. So, what would be a recommended car to find for a 4cyl RWD car, or even a front wheel drive? I know Mark's Mustang is a good choice, but to be honest the building is the fun part for me, so any other suggestions?

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

AMC used a 4 cyl. Audi derived engine in 1977-78 but it isn't in the guide.The Jeep Comanchee from the late 80s to early 90s had a 4 cylinder.Not sure if that's in the guide,but with the 6 cyl 4.0 6 cyl Bob Salemi
here in Div 1 fought the FI system on it for a few years.He finially sorted it out and the little truck flys now.

Ed F.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I used to race a 71 Pinto with the 2 liter German engine and a 4 speed. Lots of fun to drive and the current rules would cure the parts breakage problems I had with it. It needed a stronger transmission and rear end, I got so tired of replacing them I parked the car. The major problem would be finding a Pinto. I know where one is.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

How about a later model car such as a cavalier or cobalt with an Ecotec engine. They are FWD, but they are powerful engines and parts are readily available, not to mention the tuneability with the fuel injected stuff. If RWD is what you want, how about a 4cyl, 2WD, shortbed Colorado or Canyon pickup? Those can also be found with an inline 5 cylinder. They are also great engines and the 4 cylinder truck engines are bigger displacement than the ecotec stuff. Just a thought. Take care.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

That brings back memories, Bob Swartz that posts here used to travel with some guys that ran a Pinto Stocker with that 2000 CC motor, they held a national record for a long time with it. The motor is really well designed, great heads, bullet proof bottom end. They ran a D/MCP with that same engine, turned it unreal RPM with stock rods, never broke one.

Bob had one as well, and I can testify the abuse we heaped on that car... As Mr Quinn said, I remember them changing a lot of transmissions and it was hard to get enough gear in the little rear end, both problems would not exsist today. As I recall from my Ford days that engine was designed in europe for club racing and Ford was behind in the development of the 2.3 and needed a motor for the Pinto debut. The intake paorts are straight and big as were the exhaust.

Bob or Mr Quinn can probably remember more about compression and cams...

I think there were a few of those running around including some wagons.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Tod,

Old friend, yiou give me too much credit. It's been 30 years since I've messed with one of these. I don't remember cam specs, but also would need to determine year. The 71's would be the ideal choice, less smog controls and probably a tad more compression. These little motors, I believe were only in 8.0:1 range. I threw away all my information on these cars long ago.

These little engines could take a heap of abuse. The drive line was the weak link. I got pretty good at tearing that spindly little transmission out. Back in those days, the largest rear gear I recall, was a 4:30. The Meeks acquired a 4:88 gear set from a Jeep, that we adapted, that helped the stocker tremendously. We never could find another.

We bandied this on an earlier thread. One of these cars today would present an interesting opportunity. With the rules as there are now, allowing you to run a better OEM or and aftermarket transmission, that takes care of one breakage area. The other being the rear end, an 8.8 or better yet, a 9 inch, add a 35 spline spool and axles. Your drivetrain is bulletproof. No matter how much HP you make, you virtually couldn't hurt this stuff. If you broke anything, it'd be because you wore it out!

As far as the car is concerned, a good front end rebuild, with good aftermarket shocks, you could tie the subframes. Some Cal-tracs and split mono-leafs to go with that 9" rear. With the RPM's one could launch this thing, it would be an interesting ride.

Both finding a car and to me, more troubling, how available are the engines and parts? I think Toby Meek still has his old stocker in his mothers barn. The last time I saw it was probably in 1977 before his middle brother bought it off them and took it to Michigan and made a street car back out of it. I do know he got it back sometime in the mid 80's, what was done to it or what kind of shape it's in, I haven't a clue.

If I were blessed with a ton of cash, I'd seek out one of these cars and take a stab at this. I'll bet for a 4 cylinder car, one of these today, would be scarey fast. I'd be interested to hear Mark Yacavone's take on this combination. I'm just speculating.

Robert Swartz

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I was thinking about a 4cyl S10 for my wife, but I am probably doing another V6 with the hand me down parts from my other truck.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

If you want cheap and easy any of the Mopar turbo cars fit the bill
From an omni to a caravan. A few different combos.
But a word to the wise.... Your wife will out qualify you any time she wants to.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

On the 71 the compression is listed at 9.8 and the cam lift is .400 I&E. Another change, back in the day small slicks didn't exist. Now with the "tuners" there is a good selection of smaller slicks. I think I would go with an 8.8 less drag than a 9 and plenty strong enough with a good gear selection.

My Pinto was also a record holder for a time and won my only points meet victory and the division championship.

Hmmm I may have to go buy the one I know of.

Some folks still race the 2 liter engine in roundy classes, there are a lot of new parts available.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Pinto, eh? There's still a few around here, albeit newer with the 2.3. I hate to admit, but I have killed a few in demolition derbies, and they were beasts. I think I know where a couple still are myself, if nobody cut the fronts out for street rods, which up here has happened to quite a few sorry to say. I think there's a Mustang II in that group too, though it may be heavier. There are alot of parts for them via the circle track guys, so I may look into that. I love the oddballs. The FWD Mopar is an interesting idea too; I don't mind when my wife outruns me...she handed my butt to me in a demo derby heat once, and doesn't let me forget it. I guess I was more proud as a car builder we went 1-2!

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I was going to set up my 87 T-Bird Turbo Coupe for Stocker, but then found out it would be less expensive to turn the car into an IHRA Stock GT car with a SBF.:)

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

One thing before you build a fwd mopar!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have to promise not to spend a lot of money on it
FWD mopars are like kids you should never spoil them LOL

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Has anyone ever spent lots of money on 4 cylinder Mopars in stock? Seen some really quick ones over the years but not one that was overwhelming in the big bucks department. Art you always seemed to qualify pretty decent-I take it that yours was not as big buck as I thought? Saw a turbo Mopar run better than 1.60 under in testing and thought to myself "Why are so many guys killing themselves to be the best in their class and try to qualify #1 when these guys showed up with a beat up car but mechanically neat and could qualify #1 to #5 without breaking a sweat". Weak weight break I suppose. But a smart guy could milk that for some time before it caught up with him. Look hard at these classes as there are some softies available I am sure of that.

Steve

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Anyone ever tried a Cosworth Vega in Stock?

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Not that I know of, it sounds interesting but I'll bet that is one hard to find car.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

There is a 2000 CC Pinto motor on eba, its in PA...

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Not really, you see them on ebay fairly regularly, usually under $5K for a pretty decent car, complete and running. I looked at the blueprint guide, it's a little short on compression, and on valve lift, but valve lift might not matter, since it is a DOHC. I'd say the tough thing would be getting some of the parts, and getting the Bosch jetronic EFI working right. It's a 5 speed car, too.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Alan,

Kelly Chevrolet in Greenwood, Indiana (now long gone) had a new one on the showroom floor in 1975. I looked it over pretty hard, thought it was a neat concept back then. Just decided I didn't want a monthly payment on a vehicle we weren't real convinced would be a good combination.

Today, that probably would be a difficult car to find parts for!

Robert Swartz

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

So any turbo FWD Mopar, or should I loo for a specific one? They're out there, and I promise I won't spend alot of money on one if I go that way lol! I guess it would be an appropriate match for my Aspen...

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I have a 1975 Cosworth Vega that I bought for parts. It has some rust but could be repaired. Email me at aarona1968@hotmail.com if interested. I also have a few contacts that have a lot of cosworth parts.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

there was a guy from Miss that had a 4 cylinder s-10 that flew, but I'd buy mark Yacavone's car if you wanted to run a four cylinder-it's ready to fly as is.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Any 84 to 92 turbo car will do

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Not that I know of either, but this Vega talk brings back memories of the 1976 Vega Hatchback I was fortunate enough to buy brand new in July of '76. Then after getting picked on by my high school mechanics class mates over having it after talking about runner-up'ng at the '76 Memorial Day High School Drag Fest at Bandimere Speedway (in the Bracket 4 category with an inline 6cyl '64 Chevelle), I vowed to see them with their mom & pop bought muscle cars and the '77 race. That was one of my finest hours, because not only did I win that bracket with my 140c.i. 2bbl carb'd Turbo 250 automatic, but I went on the win the overall "KING OF THE HILL" title by beating the winners of the other four brackets too. Drag News, and National Dragster had clips of the race, but Drag News had a picture of me with my Stanley Cup type trophy in hand (I call it that because it went in my highschools trophy case for the 77-78 school year). Moreover, in 1979 I not only won 5 bracket races at an AHRA track in north-east Denver, but I finished 3rd overall in the 1979 Division 5 Street Eliminator Bracket Finals Championship with the same car.

Over an beyond what George Williams also did with his Vega Stocker, that's my .02 worth of givng props to the Chevy Vega for your Stocker! I can even remember my vin number of IV77B6U220942...now how's that for loving a car???

I wish I had it back!!!

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I wouldn't consider any 4 cylinder car, unless it had atleast a 2bbl or equivalent (TBI) on it. That goes for 6 cylinders too.

I wouldn't want a FWD car unless it was low hp and a stickshift.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I had a 72 hp z/s car in the 70`s set the record a few times. 140 ci 1 barrel/

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Too bad u are so far west, I know a turn key car in S fla that would work.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

If you might be interested in a FWD Caravan for CF/S, send me an email bill@howellprinting.net

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I honestly think the '88 2.2 Turbo 1 cars would be the best option right now. They're the same from the head up as the '89 2.5 T1, and from the deck down the same as the 'early' 2.2 Turbo engine. It's never been hit for HP and so is probably facored the softest. It came in the Daytona, Lebaron, and I think all of the sedans. But, I don't think it came in the Omni. Since it uses the same turbo as the 2.5 T1, it should make about the same peak power, though I would expect the tourque curve will be a little softer with the shorter stroke 2.2.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Correct on the Omni. They never came Mitsu turbo powered. Only carbed, early T-I and of course the Shelby Omni with its T-II setup.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

There's an 87 New Yorker with a bad trans in my near future. We'll see how it goes; I may build it first while the Aspen gets worked on, then hand it over (maybe) after that. Thanks for all the help so far guys!

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Rob I got the 88 motor whacked for my runs at Englishtown. And remember the 88 turbo 1 came with the mitsubishi turbo not the garret like the 87's
It really doesn't matter if you are not trying to run a week under.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I can't wait to see the looks on the peoples faces up here at home when I drag the thing out and start running it! My home track is nothing but old-school bracket stuff.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

In my experience with the cosworth vega the bottom ends won't hold up to a well built top end. They are pretty weak considering the rpms you would need.There are parts available but they wouldn't be legal in a stocker.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I didn't realize it had ever been hit. Well, it's still seems to be the softest engine factor for the turbo cars. Well, maybe the log intake cars are softer, but they also have a whole lot less potential.

Yep, from the deck up, the 88 T1 is just like the 89 T1 (mitsu turbo, roller cam, 1-pc intake) and from the deck down just like the early 2.2 T1. In a Shadow/Sundance, it would be a strong combination.

One question Art - did you ever have to tech that combo? The blueprint specs are confusing. NHRA lists the log intake manifold P/N, which is not correct.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Yes they tore me down at Enghishtown for going 1.37 under I knew I would be torn down I showed them the difference in the log manifold. So only the 88 would get the hit. Wesely looked at the differences and agreed with me. but 3 weeks later they factored all the 2.2 turbo 1's from 84 to 88.
there are a couple of typo's in their classification guide, but I wouldn't count on them. They make the rules so it is perfectly okay (in their eyes) to change them. After all nobody, not even the turbo haters can come up with an ahfs factoring number that got me 13 horsepower at once. That was attributed to the "Artie Leong rule". figure out what number it took to move me 2 full classes (actually what it took to get me out of stock eliminator forever)

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Art
I get second place for getting 8 hp on the 88 daytona intercooled.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Yes I remember that Maple Grove right, full 128 car field, and Kenny still wanted number 1.
That was before the AHFS was instituted. That was during the dartboard days. I went quick at Cecil the week before the E'town race and figured it was a done deal. Much to my amazement (after #1 at E'town)
I was told they had no intentions of factoring me, till I ran the 1.37 under there. I truly brought that on myself.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

Yep but it was fun getting those winston hats and the check.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

I'm eyeing a 1989 plymouth voyager 2.5 turbo on craigslist.

Is that a good pick or has it been hit too hard? It's rated at 175 from 150.

Re: 4 cylinder cars?
 

The minivan's have been hit, but they'll still go plenty under the index in at least 2 classes...