427/425 stocker engine
 

If one wants to build this engine for stock eliminator is the 3933163 aluminum intake available new or would one have to look for an old one? Of the head castings listed, 840,291, 858, and 391are any of these available new? Which is the better head castings? Is the bow tie block significantly better than a regular block? I know in superstock there are advantages to using them, but in stock there is only so much one can do. I did hear the Holley is available new. I would appreciate an answer. Thank you, Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

No, the 163 is not available new. It is commonly found on the Internet for sale. It has been superseded by the 359 intake (it is available new from GM), both at GM and by NHRA in most cases. No, none of the cast iron heads are available new. The last 291 heads were cast 8 years ago. Be prepared to search for a nice set, and pay $1800 or more, BEFORE you have $1500 (or more) of work and parts put in them. In most cases, the iron heads can be replaced by the 401 casting aluminum head for a 10HP penalty, a few cars have done this successfully. Yes, the BowTie block is better. However, it will still need the same amount of blueprint machine work as a production block. You don't WANT a new Holley. You want an OLD 3310, and you want to send it to Clark Holroyd (you want to buy his rocker arm system as well, do not race without it).

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Thanks Alan. I appreciate your help. I've raced superstock (ss/ha4899) for a few yrs. and followed class racing for many yrs. I've also read many of your threads here. I built my own superstock engines, but I've only dealt with smallblocks. I know very little about bigblock stuff. I sold my superstocker, a 69 camaro, a couple yrs. ago. Thinking about building something for A/SA, probably another 69 camaro. So I am going to be searching. Too bad I have so many old head/intake castings for smallblocks and nothing for the big blocks. If you have any other info my email is SSHA4899@AOL.COM. Again, thanks.... Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Jessie the 359 intake was also worth .03 to .05 over the 163. Don't skimp with anything if your looking to go fast. There are a bunch of fast A and B cars. Just take a look at Vegas. Alan is right about Clark. His carbs are very good and it would be tough to find one better. He is also very helpful. Good luck with your project. Barry Parker

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Clark Holroyd's rocker arm system?? Alan would you care to elaborate? This is the first time i've heard of this. Thanks for the info...........................Danny Durham

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

9/16" rocker studs and late model 8.1L BBC rockers. This is the more cost effective approach to durability issues than allowance of roller rocker's in Stock Eliminator.

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

A few follow up questions. Does anyone know the superseded intake part number? I've gone through this before armed with only casting numbers for smallblock stuff. Dealership wanted a part number. I have an old GM performance parts book (1998) and this replacement piece is not listed. According to that book the 291 heads were still offered back then. Also, can Mr. Holroyd supply a carb. or do I find one and send it to him?Anyone have his phone number? Unrelated to this thread but curiosity on my part begs the question.....has anyone ever seen a set of 041 heads without the boltholes in them? I have a few sets of 041 heads and one set is blank. All my books show this head to have the three bolt holes. Date codes are June 10 and 17 of 68. I assume they were for the 69 yr. 350/300 engine. Thanks in advance. Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Intake part # is the same as casting #, 19131359. Clark Holroyds # is 909-591-4320. Good guy to deal with. Good luck.

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Thank you Joe Martens.

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Jesse, there is a Holroyd 780 for sale in the parts classified section of this forum.

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Thanks Jeff,,for the reply regarding the rocker arms and studs. That does sound like a good way to go, especially from a strength standpoint. I assume these are all in the GM Performance Parts catalog. I've got a friend with a 69 Camaro thinking about putting a 375/396 combo together after this season. We're in the parts gathering mode right now. Good luck on your season too................... Danny Durham

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Thanks again, Joe. I thought it might be quite hard to piece together that engine. With help from racers on this website maybe not too bad. Originally I was going to do the 350-300hp engine for F/SA.since I have all that stuff and am more familiar with that. Ever since Bobby De Armond hit that 9 sec.run at Mission (I have that video and watch it quite often) I've been impressed with A/SA. and also his car of course. I'm leaning toward the 427, knowing it'll cost more, but if it doesn't work out I'll do a smallblock. Gonna check out that Holroyd carb. Again, thanks Joe. Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

jesse,i hope i can talk you into hanging 3 pedals under the dashboard!!!

that combo is screaming for a 4 speed!!!

brings the fun factor up to the moon

it's good to see your getting back into racing,how's everything??

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Jesse you old dog,

Just couldn't stay away, could you? Yes, the early 041 heads were without bolt bosses. I've had several sets here. If I remember correctly, they all had 1967 date codes.

Boy, you're lookin' to jump right into the thick of things with an A/SA. It'll take a lot of dry-wall to keep that thing going. Just kidding! Glad you're thinking of a comeback.

Jerry

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

And you can buy'em over the partscounter...It goes very well with the "approved" aluminum heads and thats probably the real reason it was lobbyed in..not shortage of them...it may not show that much gain on a 427 though...

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Hi Rick. I didn't know you lurked around on this site. I am doing fine. All this started with my going to the Sportsnationals and some divisional races as of late. Should have stayed away. More importantly, how is that hugger orange camaro? Are you treating her well? I hope you are having fun with it. If it wouldn't have been backhalved for superstock I'd have kept it. Good to hear from you. Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Hi Jerry. Good to hear from you. I don't know why I never thought to email you regarding the 041heads. You would know. The date codes on them are F 10 8 and F 27 8. That means 1968. I found that odd. I hope they are as good as the ones with accessory bolt holes. Do you know? I don't have them anymore. I donated them to the Stealy benefit auction. Are you and your son still racing? Again, good to hear from you and I hope to see you sometimes. Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Rick. No way on the 4-speed. I truly enjoy them by watching others drive them. Just too hard on the car/drivetrain. At the Sportsnationals I watch Kevin Helms drive his camaro to the winners circle. He is a great driver. Not many can drive a stick like he does. Gotta take the easy way.......automatic. Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Barry. Who makes the aluminum replacement heads? Is it Edelbrock? I really want to do an iron head engine. Heads are the key for me. Until I find good heads I won't buy the rest of the top end. Shortblock is not a problem. Thanks for the reply. Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Jesse, Edelbrock makes the GM Performance parts heads. Come on, put a stick in it, you'll love it.

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Jesse, the GM Performance Parts head is the "401" head, yes, they are cast by Edelbrock. The intake is actually the Edelbrock 7163 intake, GM Performance Parts sells it as the "359". The 427-425 doesn't SEEM to gain as much with the aluminum heads, but if you can't find a good set of iron heads to start with, they are a decent alternative, and you'll pay less for a set of "401" castings than you will for iron heads. The going price for iron castings is over $1800, when you can find an unmolested set. At least now you can put a full set of seats in a set if you find some with the seats shot. The problem is that 80% of them are "ported":rolleyes: and have had big valves put in. If they've had the big valves put in correctly, seats won't fix them because the bowl is cut to match the bigger valve.

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Jesse,
If the 396/375 combo fits your car you might want to consider it. I believe most of the part numbers interchange. Last time I looked, the 396 will carry less weight per actual cu in & will make more Hp per cu in than the 427.( At a higher RPM) More than likely that is the combination Kevin had in his car @ the Sports Nationals. When he lived, or used east Texas as his base of operation, I did quite a bit of work for him. At that time he only had a 396/375 and a 427/430. Since he went to work for Pat I'm not sure if he has built any other engines. Give me a call at my shop 903 794 7223 or my cell 903 824 4924, If I'm busy I usually don't leave the work I'm doing to answer the shop phone, but I keep the cell with me at all times. I will hook you up with Kevin's numbers. I'm sure he wouldn't mind talking to you. I also have some parts you might be interested in. I had a customer that was going to build a jet boat engine with a virgin set of BB heads. The fuel prices & I talked him out of it. ( I couldn't ruin them ) I will try to get the casting #'s & post them & his number on this thread. I believe Kevin has a legal set of CP 396 pistons, that we couldn't use because of wrong bore size, For Sale at a very attractive price. I think I still have a good 4 bolt 396 or 402 block, I'll look today. Another way to do a 396 is a 454 with 8 sleeves. That will allow some creative machine work too. Good Luck, Adger

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

jesse,the camaro is doing good,getting ready to go back to the track in a month or so,

with an adjustable clutch set right,it's not even close to being as abusive on parts as a trans brake

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Adger. Thanks for the response. Where in Texas are you? I've seen your racecars at races before but never stopped by to introduce myself. If I am correct, don't you have a machine shop? Do you do machine work on stock pieces? I had planned to build for A/SA with the option to go to AA/SA. I realize I can move up to A/SA with the 396 piece, but not to AA/SA. Is this correct? The head castings for what I want to build are the same as for the 396/375 piece. They are 291, 840, 858, and 391. Let me know what numbers you find. If you'd like, email me. SSHA4899@AOL.COM Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

Rick. That is true, but I won't be running a brake anymore by going to stock eliminator. Let me know how quick and fast you've gone with it. I think you've already surpassed what my smallblock ever did. Course yours is soooo big and mine was soooo small, with a rather large cam and lots of rpm. LOL. My belief, as to running the stick, is that those racers that stay with it are really good ones. Actually, I am more interested in these cars (stock eliminator) and their combinations rather than just driving. It's all about what you do with what you're allowed that interests me. Additionally, to be able to drive that stick down the track is more than I could handle. Yes, I am intimidated, I do admit. LOL. Another good candidate is John Duzac. D/S Good driver and one bad to the bone 302 (real tiny engine). Jesse

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

That will change...it have too!

Re: 427/425 stocker engine
 

jesse,the best i got out of it is a 1.43 60' 10.05 at 135.1

the reason for the poor 60' is the 4.30 gear out back was too conservative,i have some 4.86's that are going in,the 4.86's on the highway will be 3000 rpm's at 60 mph,which is ok,definately my limit though.