Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Anyone running his single bar on a first gen Camaro? If so how well does it work? Also, any pictures of the setup?

Thanks!

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Running 1 wheel for 7 years no problem. They do need to be tuned.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Garret, you really want a wheelie bar?

You should be able to tune your wheelies by tightening the front shock extension and adding travel.

http://www.classracer.com/classforum...t=36346&page=3

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Not really a want but more of a need at this point. The bars would offer a margin of safety which I don't currently have.

If the surface is well prepped I can do as you say and tighten things down and everything goes to plan.

In order to hook on a marginal track I've got to set the front shocks full loose and full travel, then it goes bumper. If I begin taking travel out or tightening the rebound it starts blowing them off.

I don't see an obvious downside to bars.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

i run Ken's bar. it works well. the installation is an obvious breeze as there is no welding required. i found that you have to make sure the spot welds holding the diff tubes in have to be ground smooth. i find that the higher the wheel stand, the quicker my run. As sson as i run the bar i lose .1. i set it so it just misses the rear valance (i know cause i have the dents to prove it!), for every inch i lower it i lose .06 to .1. i have run as quick as 1.33 60 ft and i am not having any spin or unloading issues through the launch.


last time i checked, he had some good photos on his site.

http://kenkeirracecars.com/


Ian
1968 Camaro
F/CM

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Does it really go on the bumper?

Whose shocks are you running?

FYI, I've run my Firebird without the wheelie bars using only the DA Afco's and travel limiters to control the wheelie.

You could always add ballast up front also

I just don't see the need on your car and I like relatively quick real street cars.


http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...n6-15-08-1.jpg

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Afco DA's front and rear.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...k/IMG_1941.jpg

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

looks perfect to me.:D and you've got the right shocks. So if you can't calm the wheelie down by tightening the extension and adjusting travel limiters, just put 30 lbs. on the nose and it's done.

Maybe put the stock battery back up front does the trick.;)

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...DSC00693-1.jpg

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

The battery is still up front. LOL

P.S. I was in 3rd gear at the tree praying for it to come down in that shot. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXXCx0tq7bQ

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Head wind helped that wheelie. ;)

I wouldn't worry about. Hang some more weight up front.

How tight was the extension on the front shocks? I can go from this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5KmgaSGDnM

with the extension 1/4 turn from full tight

to this, with the extension at full tight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvdBcrp6t68

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Damn that is a nice street car;)

Kevin

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

yea, but the cast iron heads aren't. There's some weight for you.;)

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Thank you Kevin.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

so it's a secret as to what the shock's extension setting was on that pass? :confused:

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

On that pass I had 7 degree of timing pulled out, front travel set to full (5.5") and front shocks were 10 or 13 clicks off soft (31 clicks total from full soft to full stiff stiff rebound)

One of two things were happening that day to me, either it went straight up as in the pass in the picture or with things tightened up to control wheelie it was blowing them off. There was no in-between whatsoever. No fun being on the starting line wondering if it's going to be a pedal fest or a burnout contest.

I want to be able to just set the suspension up to "let it eat".

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

sure looks and sounds like your entension was too soft.

all I can tell you is that with DA Afco's at all four corners and adjustable travel limiters you CAN tune the wheelie to whatever you're comfortable with.

I can also tell you that the shock and travel limiter settings that work in average air will have you going straight up in good air.

Once you get the rear shocks set right so it dead hooks in good air on a colder track, all you need to do is stiffen/tighten the extension on the front shocks on good air days.

Find your usable range on the extension and stay within it.

On good air days, I start with the front shocks at full stiff on extension and go no more than 1/8 turn from there.

FYI, you can also tame the wheelie by swapping out your front springs to a stiffer spring.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

I've often wondered if I need to go to a stiffer front spring. The front of the car can easily be topped out by hand lifting it. Front weight is 1900 lbs if memory serves me correctly. I have shimmed 180's in there now, it may be time to go to 200's.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

are these shocks coil over?

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

How many runs on the slicks?? Tire press.We chased a hook/shock settings and then put new tires on and it would hook in a car wash again,with shocks set tight

Kevin

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

I think the shock body is threaded. Honestly I can't recall.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

it is so they can also be run as a coil over shock. So you're running coil springs in the stock pockets and not coil over shocks?

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

I'm running a factory type 5" OD spring (Santhuff 180 lb) which goes into the factory pockets. No coilovers.

I don't doubt what you are saying that everything can be controlled with shocks, springs, travel settings. Ultimately, none of those things offer the margin of safety of having a wheelie bar back there if I happen to miss the suspension tuneup. If the track is marginal and I happen to be fighting traction, I'd like to be able to set things up full loose and let it eat and not worry about how high the wheelie is going to be. This car is nose heavy with little/no trunk overhang and I don't run ballast. I would imagine most first gen Camaro stockers run at least some amount of ballast in the trunk.

Is there a problem with letting the front end rise and ride the bar a few feet if necessary? What are the drawbacks to a single wheelie bar? Am I still in for problems in good air if I miss the suspension tuneup and it hits the bars?

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

I have not come across any drawbacks or disadvantages with the single wheel. However the bar is tunable. That is where the ET is.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

I appreciate the info.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

my good friend with the green small block '69 Camaro could put it on the bumper every pass if he wanted. He doesn't though, rather he tunes the wheelie to weather and track conditions. He doesn't have any weight in the trunk just a chassis/suspension that works nor does he have a wheelie bar.

I'm just informing you that you CAN control/calm the wheelie with what you have as well you can swap in stiffer springs and/or ballast up front.

If you want a wheelie bar go for it.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

I am sure when you have 14" of tire touching the track you can easily tune your front shocks, rear shocks, front and rear ballast - tie your car down, you could probabley sit in the passenger seat and it wouldn't make a differance to what your 60 ft would be. I am with 40 Coupe - i have been 38 runs in row on 4 different tracks in 5 different weeks and kept the never changed thedial in (running dead on to the hundredth - except the last run at st thomas -.003 which was a good thing!)...except for three runs. one blew the tires off like i was in the water box (first pass of the morning) and then the same day by-run into the finals same thing, then second qualifier at the next race, was still about an inch off the rear bumper at the 330 hoping that the car would stay straight....the wheelie bars when on the next run, right after i changed my drawers... and have not been off. i no longer wounder if i'll have to start evasive action 1 second after i launch, i can concentrate on the light. i will be installing Santauff 180 springs this spring and a set of their double adjustbale shocks. i am going to try to run this setup and my glide without the bars. i am hoping the car comes up a bit higher with the gluide with the new suspension setup. either way, the wheelie bracket is now permanently mounted to the diff, and the bars come to every race with me.

I am sure there are guys running quicker 60's than me with first gen camaro, 9" tires and are able to the control their wheel stands, i am just not there yet. the tires are normally dead hooked, but the track seems to dictate the amount of birds-eye-view i get!

40 Coupe, the car looks great!
Ian

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Listen to race watcher .He Knows .
Usally charges for this info LOL
Hope to see you at a track soon racewatcher

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

James, you know I know too;), you've been in the other lane more than once watching me carry the front wheels on my Chevelle past the 60 foot clocks and what I have posted will do exactly as I have stated.


There are and perhaps you missed the photo of my former Chevelle. It had 10" tires as does the '69 Camaro I've refered to. Neither have wheelie bars, both hook in a car wash and they've been 1.28 and 1.27 respectively in 60 foot off the footbrake.

Again, if Garret wants a wheelie bar, he'll get a wheelie bar. I'm just advising him as I have been for the last decade, that he don't need a wheelie bar to control his wheelstands.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Put the wheelie bar on, and start tuning. Can you post some time slips from this chevelle, especially the 1.28 60 foot slip. Thanks.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

No, the car was sold in 2008 and the 1.28 recorded in 2007.

Here's the launch photo of that run...

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...8860foot-1.jpg

the time slip is in the hands of Bret Schlichtig, owner/driver of the car in the other lane, who works for Grumpy at Jenkins Competition.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Ive seen this car run several times, seems the car ran low 10s with this iron head program.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Well you haven't seen it run "low 10's" since 2007 when it last had the 468 under the hood and if you've seen it run several times you must be a division 1 bracket racer so who are you?

BTW, it ran a best of 10.07

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...aker/th_10.jpg

http://i381.photobucket.com/albums/o...07pass2007.jpg

with my pump gas, cast iron oval port headed 468 under the hood.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Thanks 10.07 is what I saw, my I ask the MPH.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

watch the video and again, who are you?

ran in the 9's too.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbKYio6OvKM

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

I think thats the 522 Cu in Sunset program, in the video.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

if you've actually "seen" the car you'd know. BTW, it's Sunset Racecraft and you're still avoiding the question...who are you?

Thinking you haven't seen my former Chevelle in person, you've only seen it on the net!:p

Enough of what I did 5 years ago. I've since been 1.17 with my new ride and also off the footbrake!

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Its easier to draw comparisomes between the red 68 with the iron head program to a super stocker, for me atleast, than the 522. Do you have a time slip for the 9.89 pass? Very interested lower track times. Thanks in advance.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

still hiding?:rolleyes: Done playing with you.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Looks like your both hiding behind squirely made up screen names.

Re: Ken Keir wheelie bars
 

Ed I don't hide and when you click on my user name, my profile page has my name right under the album photo...Ed Bigley. Further, anyone wanting and info about me and my former Chevelle need only contact 2 of the 3 friends listed on my profile page who know me and my car very well. Rich Biebel who built every version of my 468 that was run in that car from 1998 - 2007 and Jeff Jewel who I have raced with for the better part of the past 20 years. Back to your comment, HP Hunter knows who I am and is hiding his identity and that's the only reason he registered last night. He refuses to believe the performance of my former Chevelle.

Oh and I have the time slip, I've got them all.;)