Onan info
 

Need some info on the warranty or best place to get parts ASAP. It's about 2 1/2 year old 5500 Marquis gold with a little over 700 hrs. Well this weekend it would run about 15 to 20 min then shut off. Code said over frequency fault, so like any under educated fool I started working on it. Pulled the circuit board out and switched it out with another (guy across from me had an extra, what are the chances) after that it was fine. My question is can these be repaired or are they throw away And where to get one before Thursday................


PS The book also said SEE AN AUTHORIZED ONAN DEALER Well that didn't happen

Re: Onan info
 

You can buy a new one from onan dealer,they are pricey!!theres also a company called dinosaur (i think) that offers them with a 2 year warranty i bought a remanufactured one from my local onan repair ctr and paid about half what a new one cost they sell them on an exchange basis
scott fifield

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What's pricey ? I can't find anything on the net , when I put in the part #s in it says, nothing by that #..........

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Hey Bob,

Send me the model number and part numbers and I'll see what I can find out in this area.

Kevin

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Gen # 5.5HGJAB-1038D
Ser # I070108865
I think the part # is 300-5374 I'm calling Onan now I think they sell to the public. I'm sure it's gunna be a hit from them.........:(

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I must be living right.........Called and the part is still under warranty and is being replaced BUT not in stock and will have to be ordered.

I guess I'll go ahead and get one of the Honda 2000's .Wanted one anyway,

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I called the Cummins Bridgeway dealer in Columbus, said Cleveland, Toledo, and Saginaw had them. Retail for $349.46. Good thing you are living right. hopefully you'll have it ready for Indy.

Kevin

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I just did one this morning....the exact same model and part. The unit was brand new in a brand new M-H.....Warrantee....

It is called and A-1 controller and is a sealed unit....not repairable and there are no cheaper versions for these as of yet.....It does everything.....engine control and generator control and monitoring.

Part number should be 300-5374

If you can get it warrantee it is easy to change as you already know........

We could sell one for $289.95......+ shipping

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Well here's the deal now, put the original back in before taking it in for service and thought I'd ck it out the Gen is still running.
So I called back and canceled the app. guy told me if it acts up again give them a call. So I'll see what happens.

Rich, I was wondering if you would jump in on this..If I need the board after the warranty I'll get in contact, that's the best price by far.

Thanks to everyone for the help......

Rich you have a pm

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Bob.....I work on these units a lot. They often do random shutdowns and the code sometimes helps and sometimes does not. I usually work on the larger commercial version of what you have but they are similar.

Check the battery positive connection post. There are multiple wires landed on there and if the lower section is loose it can cause a shutdown. That is where the A-1 controller gets it's DC power from.

The A-1 controllers usually last a long time but sometimes one will fail when the unit is nearly new.....like the one I did today. If yours has 750hrs on it....the A-1 is probably still ok.......and your issue is something else. That is just from past experiences.....Most controllers last thousands of hours.

Brushes can wear uneven and cause shutdowns.....Easy to check....


I can help you or anyone that has Onan issues. I have been working on them and lots of other electrical equipment and machines for many years. I kill time amusing myself reading posts on here during the day or at lunch.....some very entertaining stuff usually in the S/SS area....

My self and my friend and service manager at work, Matt Schurman, race and work on these things just about at every race we go to. I have 3 M-H's right now here in my lot.......

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Hi Rich - sorry to revive a two-year old thread. Hopefully you're still monitoring for new posts.

I don't want to hijack, but I didn't think starting a new thread, on a very similar issue, for my first post is justified.

I have the same generator (7kw version) that uses the same 300-5374 ECU. It shuts down on its own. It's completely random. Sometimes it'll run for hours without a hick up. Other times, it'll run for 5 minutes then shut down. What is odd is that the shut down is sudden and abrupt. No sputtering, no bogging. It's as though someone hit the stop button.

I've had issues a few years ago with a fuel line that had gotten chewed by rodents. Also had a problem with a rocker arm snapping due to a defect in the cylinder head design. And in those cases, the genny threw an error code.

However, when it shuts down itself, it doesn't blink. When I recall the last error code (clicking the prime button 3 times within 3 seconds), the error reported is from any previous experimenting.

For example, if I ground out the oil transducer line, I'll get error 2 (low oil pressure). If I then let the genny run (with transducer connected) for however long it takes for an auto shut down, when I recall the code, it'll still be 2.

When I run it again, and pull the power to the fuel pump, after it stalls out, I get a 36. If I then restart (with fuel pump back in operation), and it shuts off on it's own, the recalled error code is still 36.

In other words, the auto shut down DEFINITIVELY does NOT register an error code. Unless there is some safety/auto shut down sequence that is triggered/completed which does not generate an error code, my assumption is that I have a bad control board that is randomly telling the system that I hit the STOP button - or I have a short in my cabling that makes it think I hit stop.

To eliminate the latter, I disconnected the remote cable that runs from the dash to the genny - and fired it up. No dice. After about 3 hours of run time, it abruptly shut down again - no error.

I'm getting ready to drop the genny out of it's spot (no easy task on a Damon Intruder) to get access to the wiring. Perhaps there is an internal control cable that is chaffing or melting and grounding out. Or, worst case, I'll have access to the control board(s) to replace it/them.

My primary concern with the genny shutting down randomly is the resulting lack of A/C. In FL, in the summer, with unattended dogs, it can lead to disaster.

Any other ideas?

ETA: The genny is in a 2002 motor home, and has about 600 hours on it. When it runs, it runs like a top. Perfect in every sense - even under full load of both A/Cs. Not a single hick up.

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Momentary loss of battery power could be your issue. Check and make sure your battery connections are good and solid. Especially the ground......

I have found the connection pins at the Controller to be a MAJOR source of intermittant shutdowns.......One pin in particular.....The one that supplies the fuel pump and the carb fuel solinoid(same circuit).......The EFI units are worse as the pumps draw more amperage. The pin heats up.....melts the plastic around it and soon the connection deteriorates........and the hotter the weather the worse it gets. These units run hot as it is and hotter air temps obvioulsy make them run even hotter......

I unlatch the connector and examine the pins. The connector can be taken apart somewhat and I use a needle file and or some small drills to clean the female pin the best I can. I also use clear dielectric grease when I reinstall the connector.

This is a very common shutdown issue but usually sets a fault code.

It is odd that you have no fault code when it shutsdown......Your controller will probably need replacing.

I can change them without removing the unit.....in about 10 minutes....It is very easy to do.......That controller is $450 retail....

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Hi Rich,
A little info would be appreciated. We are just about to take our unit to the dealer but if there is something we could easily look at before we throw in the towel it would help. We have a 4000 Onan micro in a 2004 31 foot Four Winds( Serial #H020405714 Model 4KYFA26100K Spec K with 1500 Hrs.) and @ Columbus points race the starter drive busted in half. We dropped the unit out of motor home,ran to the Columbus Cummins dealer picked one up and changed it .Many busted pieces were throughout the shroud,so we took it all apart ,cleaned it all out, and re-installed everything. It took right off, and ran that whole day,but 24 hours later(next morning) it fails to start and sets a code 14(Over Frequency). It will run as long as you hold in the Start Button,and will run when its stone cold for about 30 seconds before it powers down. During this 30 second time-frame it has no measurable AC Output. I checked pins 1 and 10 and had 24 ohms so I thought the brushes were OK. Thinking it was a controller, we bought one ( #327-1413) and it does the same thing.I don't have a frequency meter, and I don't really want a problem in the future burning up appliances or such.I have recently been noticing my output meter on my 16 volt battery charger " wagging"). I never noticed that before and actually bought a new charger as I thought this one was getting ready to crap out.The new charger doesn't wag, so I just thought it was indeed the charger.Maybe its just more forgiving...BUT, I'm wondering if its related. Ideas?

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I have the same generator that had the exact same problem. A buddy of mine who works on Onans in the marine industry and has been to Onan training, told me this. Get a meter and check the Hz frequency at the outlet. It should be 63 Hz with no load 60 Hz with a load. If the generator goes up over 63 Hz it will shut itself off. I just had to adjust the throttle to get it into that range. Haven't had any trouble since. It's worth a try and won't cost anything.

Craig Schultz
S/ST 5909

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That was my problem the whole time. An easy fix..............

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Thanks.....Will try this. Will let you know the verdict...Jeff

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Shultz, when yours shut down, did it generate a fault code?

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Jeff you did a good job describing your problems and what you did to try and diagnose it was spot on. If you have a good Ohm reading across those 2 pins that is very important info. It confirms the brushes and the rotor are good. You tried a Controller and had no luck. When the starter drive broke.....not uncommon... a piece may have somehow gotten inside the rotor/stator area. If the stator was damaged......well that would explain why you have no AC output and a shutdown. First thing is to do as was suggested and try to read the HZ or frequency when it starts and you can hold the button down to try and help you get this reading. Unfortunately if it has NO AC outout you may or may not see a frequency that makes sense....They will shut down if they overspeed and the controller looks at the frequency since it is directly coupled to the engine. 3600 rpm = 60 HZ...62-62.5 is what it should be with no load applied....

I would be OHM testing the stator. Since you knew what the rotor Ohm readings should be.....you must have a Service Manual......If you do read how to test the stator windings.....You can do this right thru the plug in connector. May show you a problem.....May not....

The stator has the coils or windings that are wound inside the outer housing of the generator....Stator as in stationary.....Rotor as in rotating....

If the stator has an open or shorted coil....well that is your problem.

I have done just about everything you can think of on a 4KY...and changing a stator is not that unusual....

They can be very tough to diagnose.....and often are.....

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Thanks Rich
What has me puzzled is the fact it ran for one complete evening before it quit. But, you know machinery,its confusing .We are camping(wife/dogs are in a cabin,not the motor home) right now,with no internet service or phone. The main office of this place has Wi-fi, so I came up here a couple times now to check in with " the rest of the world". When we get back,I'll get back on this.., as this thing HAS to be fixed by Indy............'ll be in touch

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I am pretty sure I found it. One of the brushes was shot and not hitting the rotor all the way around .There was a spot about an inch long where it appeared to have not been hitting for a while. I took a scribe and pushed the brush up into the holder a little bit and it just stayed there,not returning. Rich, when I checked wires # 1 and 10 and got that 24 ohms, I made the mistake of not rotating the unit 360 degrees to be sure it was hitting everywhere. Amateurs mistake....I rechecked it, and it came and went severely. Onan in Columbus has the brushes and springs in stock, and We will pick them up and get this thing back together tomorrow, Thanks for all the help guys

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Bad contact between the brushes and slip rings is one of the biggest things that can cause an issue like you have Jeff. If the brush does not contact the slip ring it will arc for a while and the arcing damages the surface of the copper......Clean it with some shop roll paper untill it is as clean as you can get it.

I have been working on a Miller 300 D Trailblazer-Diesel welder. Already have hours and hours in it, changed the rotor and PC control board.....and the board was already replaced once 6 months ago.....Weld output is intermittent at best.......I spent a good part of today trying to nail down the problem and find nothing that is clearly wrong.....but it doesn't work and I already have a pile of money in parts in it and a pile of time.....

Working with machines that produce electricity can be very very difficult....even for people that do it all the time like myself....

Hopefully you found your problem.....

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Well Well Well
Spoke too soon, I thought I had it fixed, but now it sets a different code, and still won't run without holding in start button. I now have hertz( 61 while holding button down)). I even have 14-20hz while the motor is being cranked, but I get a code 32. Low hertz while being cranked or something like that.Went ahead and PM'ed it while it was out. Plug, fuel filter, oil etc...I stuck it back in the back of the mini van and I going to take it to the dealer Monday. I checked everything I can think of, Stator/field ohms out (@35) perfect, brushes/rotor are 21 ohms. I have cleaned and tightened grounds and checked pins till I have had enough of it. I even stuck the old controller board back into be sure .. Same 32 code... I'll let you know what they find out.....

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Working with machines that produce electricity can be very very difficult....even for people that do it all the time like myself....

I already said that but have to repeat it.....

Trust me when I tell you I have been there and done that as the saying goes....

I worked on a buddies 4KY earlier this year at home for the better part of a week at night after work.....I was just about to throw in the towel and than gave it another try.....Got it fixed and he is still using it now....probably today as there is a big race at Atco......

That code is a bit odd....Stators can test ok with an ohmeter and still cause problems.....Ohm testiing is not conclusive and I deal with this all the time..

Hopefully you found a place that can get it fixed for you...

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how about a code 47 on a 5500- marqie

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Code 47
Points to the ignition coils and wiring between them and the controller.
The coils are magneto style.....they make spark anytime the blower wheel passes them. They are grounded by the controller thru a small wire attached on the coil. Code 47 says the controller is not connected to the coils.

My experience tells me this is likely not the problem...and getting to the coils is a major job as the unit has to be completely disassembled....

I would check the white wires going down to the coils. They both have a connector on the upper section side. The controllers on these machines fail a lot.......That is more likely the problem....

It is a PC board in a holder/tray located inside the box where the start/stop is.....One weatherpak style connector......Those connectors can also cause problems....

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Well today I removed a CMM 7000 EFI unit for random shutdowns.

Bench tested it under load untill it failed...

Showed a Code 47 fault. Did it more than once.

I checked the coil connections to the controller and all was fine as it always is...

Installed a NEW 300-5047 Controller and continued to test the unit...

Ran the rest of the day on and off with various loads applied and no more shutdowns...

So for the umpteenth time a controller is at fault and the fault code it showed was somewhat misleading.....

And during the time I worked on this unit another customer came in with a similar problem......He may or may not be getting a controller also but he opted for a wait and see deal as we cleaned some wire connections....

My money is on him returning before the week is out to get the controller replaced.....and regretting not doing it today.......

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Ok, here's my latest update.

Backstory:
My 7000 Marquis (gas) has been shutting down randomly WITHOUT generating any error code. As documented in my posts above, the unit would shut down abruptly as though someone had pressed the stop button. The reported error code was always an old code from a previous abnormal shutdown (i.e. low oil, fuel delivery).

Discovery since last post:
I removed the control module to inspect it carefully. The open side is filled with a clear epoxy/silicone material designed to encapsulate the circuit board and keep it dry. There were several pronounced cracks in this silicone in the corners. The cracks were deep enough to reach the PCB - and in one corner, the board and silicone were rusty colored (picture attached).

Actions:
Figuring moisture ingress was the likely cause of the intermittent shutdowns, I carefully and methodically stripped the silicone off of the board using a small flat-headed screwdriver. The glue came up surprisingly easily. I was unable to remove the PCB from the housing since the glue between the board and the housing was inaccessible. I then put the the module in my toaster oven at 175 deg F (no, I'm not kidding). I let it bake for an hour. As soon as it came out, I filled it with clear GE silicone II caulk from Home Depot for about $6 (picture attached). I let it sit overnight. The following morning, I reinstalled the control module in the genny, and let her run.

Results:
It's now been running for most of the morning without a single shutdown. While this doesn't mean anything (the random shutdowns sometimes went many hours between events), I'll let it run all day (and into the night if need be) to confirm that the shut downs are eliminated. I will post back my results once the testing is completed.

Given that my situation seems unique (shutdown without error code), I don't know how much my troubleshooting will help anyone. However, at a minimum, if you've performed all the possible diagnostics and are left with replacing the ECU, before you do, inspect the sealant carefully. Unless something is toasted on the board, you might just be able to revive it.

I figured I need a new board anyway - so I'm not going to break it more than it's already broken. Besides, I can learn more tricks this way :)

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The part number is 300-5047 for that A-1Controller as Onan calls it...

The boards fail regularly and there is NO visual area to see that is faulty.

They generally fail with heat and I let a unit run on my bench for a while with a resistive load bank connected to it....

Once it is good and warm.....I shut it down and let it sit for a while....It heat soaks so to speak. Any unit that has had intermittent shutdown problems will usually start to do it once I put them thru this test. As soon as the unit starts to shutdown......I replace the PC board/control and continue the same test and the units no longer shutdown...

I did 2 units this week.....

One got a new engine and a controller...
One got just a controller......

We called a company we deal with that does PC board testing and repairs....They do a lot of boards for us and also make some lower cost replacements for many common parts. They don't do this one.....

I have changed probably 15-20 of them in the last 5 years....

My prediction is you will be changing yours as well......

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Rich, you may be right, but for $350, I'll take the chances that it was moisture getting to the 'rusty' part of the pcb. See the photo showing the large deep crack in the original sealant. After drying it out and resealing it, I've got 6 straight hours on it now, and it hasn't skipped a beat.

I just upgraded my 36' Damon gasser (the source for this generator) to a 42' Tiffin Phaeton diesel pusher. It has a 10k quiet diesel onan.

The only reason I want to get this genny fixed is so I can sell it to the next guy with a clean conscience. I'll let the buyer know that if the generator starts to shut down without error, they'll need to buy this controller.

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Those PC boards sell for $450 and I have seen them sold on various websites for over $500

I have seen the potting material split and cracked as you described.

Moisture is definately not a good thing for a PC board to be exposed to...

If you got it working with no shutdowns.....great.....

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Where do you guys read these codes? I have a 7000 marquis, I think its a 1999 year model. I have had to replace the fuel pump several times in the last few years. After the original onan pump quit I replaced it with a $50 low pressure pump from the Advanced Auto part because we were at a race when it gave up. The $50 pumps look just like the onan pump, but they don't seem to last very long. Is the Onan pump really worth the $260 they cost?

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It's the government-mandated ethenol that kills the pumps. I doubt an Onan pump would do any better.

To get the code, press the stop/prime button 3x within 5 seconds. It'll then blink a single digit. Press it one more time, and it'll blink a two-digit code.

A fuel pump problem will generate a generic 36 - which stands for fuel delivery problem. Could be a pump issue, low fuel level, leaking fuel line, gummed carb, or anything else that causes the genny to starve of fuel.

It's probably one of the more common codes.

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I don't have any type of digital readout. Are you saying that the light on the start button will blink a code? Mine has a remote start button with a analog style hour meter.

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Correct. Some remote start switches don't have a light. If that's the case on yours, you'll need to go to the generator itself, and look for the start/stop switch. That one definitely has a light.

In either case, you count the blinks. Remember, the first blinks after pressing the stop button 3x will be either a 1, 2, 3, or 4. But it'll be only a single digit. It'll keep flashing the same digit, until you press stop one more time. Then it'll be flashing two digits... i.e. 3 blinks, pause, 6 blinks = 36.

Happy hunting.

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Got it, thanks.

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A 1999 model is probably the old design. Flathead engine. Does it have a black sheet metal cover? Big square type box? They made a 7000 Marquis back then. The best unit they ever made......Electronic governor, quiet 1800 rpm.....

If it is the old design they did not have the self diagnosing feature of the newer design units.....

Onan parts prices are pretty high and they are owned by Cummins....

I have seen a lot of bad fuel pumps on many different models. I don't doubt the fuel is killing some of them....

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Yes Rich, thats the one I have, exactly as you described. I just installed a new fuel pump and a water fuel separator filter. Is there any legit reason to buy the $260 onan pump? There was a decal on the original onan pump that said you must replace with onan pump only. No explanation of why. I thought that maybe it was a flashproofing thing kind of like starters and altenators in the marine industry.

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No real reason to buy strictly an Onan pump Darren other than using OEM parts and having a good direct replacement fit.

We sell.service and install Onans so that is what we use and install.

Facet makes pumps that will work and so do some other companies.

LOW pressure pumps only.......Or the needle and seat will not hold...

They make about 3-4 lbs max....

Onan is no different than every other company out there. They make $$$ on parts.....

That unit you have is the best one they ever made in my opnion.

Carbon buildup is something they do if used a lot and they do need to be taken apart and thouroughly cleaned once they start to have running problems.....

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Been there, done that, with the carbon issue. Thanks for the info.

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Rich,
Took this to 2 different dealers. Both said the Stator was shot and wanted 1300 by one dealer and 2000 by the other. Cummins Bridgeway in Columbus sold us a complete new one for 2550. I guess I have a bunch of spare parts. This one is a model 4.0KY-FA 26100K. It looks identical to me but I'm sure some things are not interchangeable. Thanks for your help getting us through the generator blues.