Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

This question was inspired by a conversation a group of racers had yesterday. I know none of you guys have tried this but I'm sure you have a friend that knows a friend that has. What was the results? Did it pass fuel check with no problem? What temp was it at fuel check? What did they think it was worth ET wise? Barry

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Since dry ice is frozen carbon dioxide, wouldn't it mix with the fuel to a certain extent and basically do the opposite of what oxygenated fuel does?

Chemistry wasn't a strong subject in school so I'm not sure how these items would actually interact. Seems like temperture consistency might be an issue too, not to mention a potentially "sweaty" fuel cell.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I would never do this, but know a guy that knows a guy that has.

He says it passed fuel check just fine. I hear his fuel cel did sweat. I hear the lady at fuel check did take a second, suprised look at fuel temp. Below ambient might cause a problem. Long enough line at the scales and fuel check (Like class at Indy) might bring the temp back up enough to not cause a problem. Understand, I just heard this. He told me this guy he knows, that knows this guy, says he holds the plastic fuel sample cup real tight in his hand to warm it back up some.

You can hear all kinds of stuff.

I wouldn't want to get caught doing it.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I was in Columbus a few years back and the guy pitted next to me and saw him put it in before class but didn't pay attention to the outcome. I never heard of it before until I saw it.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

See no real problem with it, but why not just cool your fuel in the pits then pour into the cell before a run? There obviously is no issue with cooling fuel as cool cans are allowed.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I know guys with small freezers in thier trailers, just big enough for a fuel jug.
Half an hour in the staging lanes make that one moot.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Betting even with the time lapse there would still be a difference...how much would have to be measured.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

What benefits are seen with Cool Cans?
Does it reduce Cool Down issues?

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I havent seen one in use in years Dan, but they were common in the 60's/70's.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Rich I would image there would be a big temp difference between cooling the fuel at your pits and putting dry ice into the tank. I haven't raced much in the last several years but a 2 years ago I was at Indy and the stocker parked next to me was playing with dry ice. I had to laugh because it was at least 100 out and they had gloves on. They were new to the stocker game and had a newer car. They must have thought I had no clue as to what they were doing. I walked over into their pit area and they reached into their cooler as to pull out a cold beer out. I forgot what I said exactly but it was something like dry ice will keep your beer real cold. LOL Although I have heard of a few West Coast teams playing with it at Indy these guys were from my Div. Division 1.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Oh, I know there would be a difference...was just saying there would likely be a difference between un-cooled fuel vs fuel that had been cooled then introduced in the pits before a run. I used to be one of those geeksters that dabbled in computer overclocking...dry ice does well, but I prefer my LN2. :p

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...9/DSC00208.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...9/DSC00209.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...9/DSC00234.jpg

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Somebody told me, that somebody else told him......you get the idea, that you must remove the foam. And an old fashioned cool can will lower the fuel temp about 15 degrees at fuel check.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Done this many times...even tested on the dyno....carb does not like it when it gets below 50 degrees....hotter it is outside the more it is worth...do not put the fuel cell lid back on too soon....

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

With enough coils in a can and using LN2 there might be a significant difference...would make an interesting project hehe.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Any measurable difference shown on the dyno?

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

As much as 15hp with the right fuel....not all fuels act the same...

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Worth the effort in a heads-up...I would'nt want to deal with it otherwise.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I did this at Atlanta one year. It was 92 degrees out and my fuel checked at 45 degrees. Got some weird looks, but explained what I did and it checked fine.
I chopped the dry ice up and put directly into the fuel jugs (half full). I laughed at all the looks I got LOL.
It really didn't seem to make a difference. But at the time I was running quite a bit rich.
I think it would have been worth something if I could retune for the cold fuel (at the time I didn't have the knowlege to retune the ecu).
I think I picked up some (.50) mph. In my case the fuel would probably have cooled the intake air (EFI)
Don't have the time or wallet to test things properly. I tried C25 and picked up between .6 and 1.2 mph. But lost 2 tenths in the short time .050 total. So some tuning would probably have been a net gain. This was tested with 3 runs on C12, then 3 runs on C25, then 2 runs on C12. With no tuning changes and not much DA change.
Some day I'll get around to actually making some tuning changes. With cold fuel or C25 (I was told it needs more timing) Don't really need it right now. Can get into instant trouble in good air.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Ever put it your fuel jug yes bubbled like a sob make sure the jug is less than half full ,had frost on the out side of my gas tank. Don't remember what the fuel temp was at fuel check but did go 1.36 under. You do need to jet them to be worth anything. The TAFC and TAD were doing this and now is not legal. Tom

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

what is ln2

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I think you need to back the timing up a couple of degrees with C-25, and jet up a size or two. Someone may correct me. I purchased two cool cans from a custom builder that you freeze a 16, or 24 oz. beer can filled with water, then slide it down between coils, and fill with water. Don't know if it works, but it looks cool.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Someone mentioned cool cans. We used to use them, back when my hair was still brown. I used dry ice and rubbing alky in mine when I had my Jr Stocker. If you have any water in your fuel, you will find it. Freezing it in the fuel line up once. LOL

We can't use cool cans like we used to. I was told there can not be anything in it to cool the fuel while going down the track. Only before the run. Makes that pretty useless. I guess an EFI car could run the fuel pump to circulate fuel through it and back to the fuel cell because of the return line they all use. Then dump it. Dry ice is "before the run", but I don't know that the oficials approve. As mentioned, guys I have seen doing it don't put the cap back on too quick. A fuel cel is vented, not a fuel jug.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

You know something Ed, I may have been illegal using a cool can then, but no one ever said a word. But, in back to back test runs, we never really seen anything. What I did see at Bethany was if you laid bags of ice on the intake between runs, there was a much as .03 in it.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

At Indy a few years ago. I saw some superstockers during class carrying fuel jugs with blankets on them. Went over and saw the moisture on the outside of the jugs.
It seemed hush/hush but I Added 2+2. Seemed like a great idea. Especially with fuel injection (injector about 3 inches from intake valve). It has to cool the incoming air. My air temp sensor is way ahead of the injector (so ambient air), so I don't know how much.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Liquid Nitrogen, Vic.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Was worth a couple hundredths on my old '56 Chevy, and the next car, 250 hp 327" '65 Chevelle. My C/SM Camaro didn't seem to care.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Liquid nitrogen...when you need extreme cooling. Transported in a Dewar such as this one...

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...9/DSC00160.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...9/DSC00429.jpg

Not something as easily applied as dry ice. I still think the cooling of the fuel outside the car is the best option overall. Heck, just setting the fuel jug in a cooler with ice/water is a step ahead.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

http://srsperformance.com/default.cfm

Here's a company I found in the back of the national dragster.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

If you try it you better have your fuel cell well vented.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

The rulebook says a cool can is legal in Stock and SS. It actually says, "One cool can permitted."

Wet towels, bags of ice, etc must be removed from the intake before a run, but a cool can is allowed to still have ice in it during the run. I was told to just make sure it does not leak water out of it.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

When I lost my mind and started doing this again a few years ago I asked a division tech director why nobody used them now, and was told there could be nothing in it to cool the fuel going down the track, which makes it pretty much useless. Made no sense to me, it used to be perfectly OK.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I had a cool can in my old car. My new one will have one too. Out west and at altitude in temps above 65 it was worth .08-.10. Had to be careful if temp and DA dropped cause I actually failed fuel check once. Also ran the "plumbing insulation" from home depot on the hard lines to help keep cool in. Also this was on a "bypass" style system. constantly recirculating.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

What caused you to fail fuel check?

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

In the late 60's and early 70's, it was common practice to use "cool cans", with ice around the fuel line....I believe it helped. When I got back into racing in 06, I asked the question: Why don't people use cool cans? I was told that the racing fuel used today does not react the same as "pump gas" used years ago....I don't know if that is true or not....

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

At Indy one year I put dry ice in my fuel jug (5 gallon jug with 4 gallons of fuel) Chilled the fuel down to 40 degrees. Made the run then went right to fuel check (first one down the track no waiting). You should have seen the look on the fuel guys face when he did the temp. But it passed with no problems.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

That's what I was wondering... will they fail it on temperature alone? If so what are the parameters? Was your fuel 40* at fuel check or when you put it in the cell in the pits?

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

When dad was driving and set the ihra rec I put some ice in the cool can ..and he picked up .08 and passed the fuel check. .....

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I have had them take a second look at the temp, but never failed due to temp. As long as the other numbers come up OK.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

Maybe they don't push that issue much. Mine's been there for 8 yrs, and I see several more. No tech guy has ever said anything about it, in D2,3 or 4. Or IHRA.

Re: Dry Ice in your fuel cell?
 

I won't get into the argument if it works or not, but the next time you are at Indy try to find some close by, bet all the local grocery stores are sold out.