Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

I am researching the 53 Hurst SS/AMX, a joint venture between American Motors and Hurst. I am familiar with the www.ssamx.com website. Anyone have any info or pics they can send? Still looking for some missing cars:

Stowe Engineering, Hicksville, NY
Uncle Sam El Paso, TX
Beachy Bros Ray Well Motors car from Kokomo, IN
Chuck's Luck, Wayne Nissen, Shrevesport, LA
Flemington Rambler, Ted Kijak, Gilberts Speed, Lancaster, PA
Go Package, Skeeter Hernandez
The Big Menace, Dick Allen Motors, Westchester, CA

Here is my thread about these cars thus far. Can anyone help or point me somewhere?

http://theamcforum.com/forum/ss-amx-...414_page1.html

thanks for any help

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Flemington Rambler, Ted Kijak, Gilberts Speed, Lancaster, PA

This car was owned by Dave Sippolie (spelling) his father owned the dealership. Dave ran a company called Trans/End that moved south, dont know if he is still in business. Ted was the driver, Ted bought the car and ran it a couple of years then went missing. Last I heard he lived in Somerville, NJ.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

beachy bros own a engine shop specializing in superstock motors in kokomo indiana.someone here can get you contact info.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Bill & Brian Rodekopf SS AMX in Kansas City, original owners and was an American Motors dealer in K.C.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

George Gudat and a select few have all the documents, 1969 VINs, VIN conversion #'s from the 1969 to 1970 SS/AMX's and all the tell-tale signs of a true original. I've asked that "they" (who seem to be the purveyors of the SS/AMX web-site) have a Galeen Govier or Kevin Marti type of documentation of originality. From what I understand there are three factions and none seem to agree how best to handle the situation. I spoke to George recently and he's finally had enough of the AMC drama club.
Are you looking for pictures to ad to the SS/AMX web-site or are you looking to start your own collection?

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Ray Well Motors was owned by Larry Vitatoe's dad last I heard Larry lived in Chilicohte, OH. He haded a front wheel drive Olds for a while, that car the AMC was damaged one time in 69 at Bunker Hill Dragway the Detroit locker unlocked on gear change and went off trake and hit a lite pole or fence poll but was repaired..

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

I am looking for any and all info on the cars and hope to share it with everyone via the following thread:

http://theamcforum.com/forum/ss-amx-...414_page1.html

As you can see there is a ton of info and original documentation. I have sent a number of items to the owners of the SS/AMX website but most of it was ever posted. I also sent the stuff to another SS/AMX collector. For some reason the items are out there but not shared. I hope to locate and show the cars as they were and as they are now. I would be happy to share anything I get with other sites. So far a number of people have sent me items to help with the cars. A lot of the stuff I have posted has not been seen before.

Please keep the stuff coming. I am very grateful for the help on a project I have been working on for almost 30 years.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Hi Tom,
Steve Avery. One of the p;laces I stumbled onto. Check out this info regarding the Beachy Brothers:http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...201085&page=45
And this:http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_cw3pyn

The first is a little background, the second will help you follow-up.:)

Steve

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

The problem seems to be the owners, or at least a select few owners, of these 53 cars are concerned that if too much info is publicized then it will be that much easier to clone. I believe they are most concerned about VIN and data forging on the missing cars. A friend of mine has SS/AMX #3 (originally Frisbee Motors from the San Francisco bay area) and he had to come up with some pretty detailed information on the car to get it authenticated for the SS/AMX registry. I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing but what we have expressed to these individuals is a need for a document of authenticity such as offered by MOPAR guru Galen Govier or FOMOCO guru Kevin Marti.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

LOL. Yeah that may be the case, with certain owners, but oh well, it's not up to them. And they certainly have the right to feel any way they want but they don't have the power, nor the "priviledge" of stopping the information flow from other sources including for their car if it shows up on a list. Just its whereabouts and current owner may be mum. Which is fine. Any one of these cars, are, by any other comparable manufacturer standard, bargain basement priced. Concerns about cloning should be at the bottom of the list. In any case, those that want privacy with regard to their own individual car(s) will likely keep their privacy, however quesswork tied into an historically accurate car would be such that it wouldn't be tough to figure out all the details if someone saw it..
The real situation is not all the cars have been identified. Trying to find them by vins alone or first even, would be bassackwards anyway. Tracking them down will be far better accomplished by knowing a car's provenance by dealer/driver name when new and matching that with a document referring to the car. If a car in question comes up such that one can see it, then yes, the first thing to check would be the vin to confirm or deny, so to speak. Now, if someone currently owns a car that they know is one of the 53 but they haven't revealed that, well, how is anyone else going to know? For cars that simply haven't been identified because people that have them don't know what they are- those are the ones of interest. Even the searchers, and I'm one of 'em, don't know, as yet, what all the "official" cars are. We are narrowing things down, but unmistakable identification is still in the works on some.
Eventually something along the lines of a Marti or Govier "blessing" will be the case, but remember, the smoking gun paperwork clearly identifying the original total and the vins affected is/are the only true master document(s) to judge prospective cars from along the same lines as a Marti or Govier report. Even then, AMC documentation systems and breakout availability are not like other manufacturers. There's a distinct scarcity of manufacturing info, code breakdowns, and yearly totals. In the case of the SS's- given the small number built and the unique parts that they were supposed to be equipped with as per the Supplemental Parts Sheets, unique assembly line parts breakouts of how they were originally equipped isn't the problem, or even particularly pertinent. These were race cars from moment one, meaning change was the operative term ever after. Given that these cars were basic "kits" makes that even more the main point. Further complicating things are the changes the dealers made or likely made upon delivery, removing rocker panel trim, changing mirrors, swapping electric wiper motors for the vacuum ones, and the currently unknown nature of the instrument pods and some being hooded and some not. Were they switched at the dealer? Did AMC have a shortage on the line?
So the provenance for a car can involve vintage pictures, company memos, build sheets, the vin and so on. Primarily, documentation and the vin. Anything else, while helpful, can be changed or is not unique to just an Hurst SS.

Steve

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

These "people" hold some of the most important documentation and refuse to release it for public consumption. Specifically, they hold the 1969 VIN and crossover to the 1970 AMC issued VINs. That's pretty important. AMC instructed and supplied 1970 VINs and changeover parts. There is documentation to support this and as I said, a cross reference.
No doubt any and all SS/AMX owners can exchange knowledge and anything else they like but in my opinion they are not doing anybody a favor.
FYI - I'm getting a pair of correct SS/AMX 4584 Holleys restored to new condition and they will be for sale once completed. If you know anybody missing these valuable pieces, send them my way.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Ha ha. Well, we disagree.
If they got it, so can others get it. What it takes, and I believe the players are in place with the gumption, is undeterrable determination. Don't see the place these cars have in the real overall scheme of things in the car and race car world as the equivalent of the Ferrari Registry or the like where cars change hands for millions and maintenance costs alone get into the hundreds of thousands. The stakes are considerably higher there. But the resources exist and are available to determine the various cars' provenance. See, the people I've encountered that own one or two or have owned a car in the past have been nothing but forthcoming, helpful, friendly, and generous with the information they have. Same goes for the big players in part responsible for creating these cars in the first place. But somehow I and others are to believe that a select few got a whole ream of source information in black and white or blue and white, a master list of 70 conversion vins ( which weren't many and through guesswork alone there's a ballpark accounting for what they are and the vin grouping they would be and the build dates for them ), and the '69 vins? Hmmm, all the vins...then....that...would.....mean... they'd know all the cars and their original dealer affiliation! Problem is some of these cars were secured at one dealer and then transferred to another or people would travel and pick a car up from a dealer that had stepped up to the plate. Then the cars took on the name and affiliation of the gaining dealer, not the losing one. Which is why there are discrepancies existing that further investigation has shown what the ultimate trail is the car followed. Yet, on the internet these associations aren't evident.... hmmm. That means that either the information is not known to the "guardians of the word" or they are seriously behind in their connective updates, or they do know but don't want anyone else to.
Usually when there is crucial documentary evidence, i.e., company memos, build sheets, vin reassignments, homologation notifications- there exists the original documents and then the copies. Rarely does the holder of the originals just give them up. So if copies are obtained either through sanction and permission, or by other means- there exists more than one party in knowledge of the information. For the Provahder(s) ( pronounced the same way that President Bush did when he proclaimed himself to be the...." Deecahder ") to continue to be mum when subsequent seekers come along as though there was a tacit agreement between the Provahder(s) and the "Original Crusaders" is a tough sell after forty years of bs and contradiction. If the "Original Crusaders" ( hereafter referred to as " The Ha Ha, We Got There First Gang") somehow got information on the sly, nonetheless, the source still exists. In other words if they have information, that others don't, and it is legitimate information then a legitimate source also exists. And there is no reason that stands up to scrutiny that would justify an agreement that would result in casting more doubt, putting out more disinformation and obscuring the path to helpful resources for restoration endeavors, and finally, a greater shortness of ultimate credibility in the auto world than what the situation currently provides– whatever the underlying truth is.
I sure don't believe that there are those out there running that have the complete picture. They may have pieces of the jigsaw and maybe they've played a cat and mouse game for years with the list of cars put out there while not saying anything when others have offered up alternatives. Maybe they do know all...
However, the argument that it would be too easy to clone these cars if the complete picture was certain rather than an educated guess of the present is specious at best. The ignorance that currently exists makes it easier to cash in on benefit of the doubt it's a legitimate Hurst SS because enough shadowy "facts" or outright lack of knowledge causes some people to go up blind alleys thinking they have the real deal.
If the "lucky few" got the information why when others have stepped up to the plate economically didn't they provide them the information? In any case it's excuses like that about the cloning or the suggestion that there is a "Trilateral Commission" with the secret knowledge ( and the equivalent secret handshake or displaying their unbendable pinkies– the identifier of the aliens in the sixties Quinn Martin series– The Invaders ) that motivated me the most to find the answers. That crap don't hold any sway. In fact, it's the juice to keep on digging. Not that I believe the "Knowledge Holders" really have the whole enchilada. Just the notion that one should play ball or should accept the status quo, alone, is the spur onward. Tell them boys hi for us, we're comin'.:p

Steve

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

http://members3.boardhost.com/amxjav...254065254.html

A guy named Nathan in the above thread says he's looking for any and all SS specific parts for an upcoming project- he gives his number in the ad as well.

Steve

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Thank you all for any info you have given me. It has been very helpful. Please keep it coming.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

I want to thank everyone who sent me info on these cars. ZI posted everywhere i could find and actually verified a few cars, found two missing cars, and talked to Ted Kijak, Ross Gilbert, and Dick Erlandson who actually raced these cars. Also corresponded with others, and the sons of 3 drivers who have since passed away. the info I was able to compile is incredible-and it's free to anyone. Just click on the link above in my first post if you want to know anything about the cars. And as always, if you have anything to contribute I would love it.


Thanks again.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Jimmy Clark(who lived in Raymond, Ms.) I believe had one of the original ones back in 1970 or 71. He worked as a mechanic at the Ford Dealer in Raymond at that time. I know the car changed hands several times and eventualy was destroyed in a crash at Riverside Raceway in Pearl, Ms. some years ago. The car belonged to Mike McCool from Jackson, Ms. when it crashed. Mike passed a couple of years ago but Jimmy is still around. I talked with Robbie(Jimmy's son) earlier today and he's going to check with his dad if car was original one or not. I'll post when I find out.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Thanks for any help. Any news about the above car owned by Jimmy Clark?

Thanks

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Skeeter hernandez moved from Maryland to Fla. years ago and raced ss mopars for awhile. the AMX was sponrored by speed unlimited.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

"PETE's PATRIOT"

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

I owned Pete's Patriot twice in the late 70s. Do I know you?

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

You should.....you did the 4 link and tubs in the 68 Camaro that I raced with Wally Knight back in "BKKRC". That was "Before Ken Kier Race Cars" existed....lol.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Didn't he have a corvette called skeeter's cheater? I remember the AMC. Hello Ken and Terry.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Yes he did....Hi Ya back. Whew that was a long time ago. I think YOU (Dale) should get one of those new Mustangs and come out of retirement. It would be fun to see you,Jim Morgan, Danny Lattamore, Hawk and a few others pitted together and cutting on each other again.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Ya that was some good times, but everybody is to serious about this stuff now,hell we never knew where the brake pedal was until after the finish line. Im old school I thought the game was to have the fastest car and if you got beat go home and work on your shxx and make it faster, now you just cry and bitch until somebody pencils you or them.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Two stories (I'll keep 'em short) - My friend Neil Smedley was offered a SS/AMX ride in '69 as he held a record and they needed somebody for the upper state NY area. All giddy with excitement he drove his van to Michigan to pick up the car. They handed him a $5900 invoice. Neil thought it would be free , reminded them of who he was. Still, he drove home with his empty trailer.

Other coast. Frisbee Motors is offered a SS/AMX from the San Fran depot. It had been sitting awhile as another team walked from the sponsor deal & nobody wanted it for $5900. He got it cheaper as it was old inventory, raced it in the 1969 season and installed the 1970 sheetmetal and parts to convert it to a 1970 model along with a 1970 VIN tag; all provided by AMC with instructions to do so! Yes, all 1969 SS/AMX owners were provided for this by AMC. He raced it as a 1970 model until NHRA caught on and said "no". My friend Mark owns this car today and it's restored to race day 1970. SS/AMX #3

Sometime after Mr. Frisbee bought #3, the AMC depot again called him. They "found" another SS/AMX in the same parking garage. Found as if they didn't have record of receiving it! They offered it to Mr. Frisbee for $1700!
He refused as he was much to busy with Frisbee Motors and a few other race cars!

Mr. Frisbee is meeting Mark in a few weeks to be reunited with his old car for the first time in decades. I can't wait to see how the afternoon turns out.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Yes....It was a lot more fun back then and a lot less expensive.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Been awhile since I posted here and was hoping someone may have found something of interest. I did find Jim Riley of Mich, but not his car. Last known it was blue with "Camrisers" on the rear quarter panel. Found the Beachy Brothers car from Kokomo, IN. Located some owners but not their cars such as Van Buskirk and Copey out of Oklahoma. I am looking for any and all photos of these cars-maybe in the pits as a background, staging lane, etc. Have found 43 cars, identified another 8 but location unknown. That leaves only 2 left!

Have a new website going up. Go to www.superstockamx.com and click on the link at the bottom to get to a placeholder site.

Thanks for any and all help.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

I actually have the finished site up and running. A year or so to get it published, but I found a lot of prior owners, people with info on the cars, and even a few unknown cars. thanks for all the help. A lot of info-hope you enjoy it


http://www.superstockamx.com

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Tom,

Great website and you are correct, a LOT of information. I will e-mail you, you have a couple of pictures I took in there and I may have more and better ones for you.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

If anyone has a picture on my site let me know so I can give proper credit. Thanks

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

The car A.H. Adkins runs is not a "real" SS AMX? That car has been around in SS trim a long time....it's the first "class" car I ever saw run!

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Adkins is a "clone" as the real ones are too valuable to cut up. No different than the other makes rare race models. And there really is not much sense in building a modern / competitive Hurst SS/AMX as there is nothing really special about the body. No lite-weight parts to speak of.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

I think Mike Withers from Grafton,WV is a real car.

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

It is

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...ter%252520.jpg
http://images52.fotki.com/v642/photo...d70indy-vi.jpg
http://images114.fotki.com/v648/phot...ndycopy-vi.jpg

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

Budd Green at Cecil County Drag-O-Way

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/a...les/greens.jpg

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...ter%252520.jpg

I see that this one had a Texas sponsorship on the quarterpanel, so I assume it was from there when this photo was taken. Back in the early '80's we had a Super Stock AMX being raced here in Nova Scotia by an American whose name I can't remember offhand. He was here for work, and went to Texas next. I remember seeing his car for sale in ND a year or so later. It was black with "Brand X" on the door.....this car reminds me of it. Could it be the same car I wonder?

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

how many of these cars are actually left? My dad's friend has one stored in his garage, and its been there i know 30yrs,

Re: Need info for 1969 Hurst Super Stock AMXs
 

The last count I heard was that 43 are accounted for.
Mike Withers car is original ,as is the Harry/Larry Goliday "Wild Child" car.
I just sold some parts to a guy in Emmaus ,Pa who is restoring one to original condition, altho I don't know all the particulars.