Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

So, that Judge was this Rocky's Goat car ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

I think we talked about the record holding '74 A-body that Carroll Warling has raced for a long time. He ran it with a Lemans nose & a Grand Am nose.

I think his record was in SS/MA. Also noticed that he won class at Indy, at least once.

In 2008, he qualified #10 @ 1.164 under, & won his SS/MA class.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

I've noticed several '74-'77 A-bodies still running, in Stock, mostly '74's & '77's. I think there has also been a pic of a Bob Peters & Bob Michael SS version.

But, I just found a pic of a Duncan & Michael version. I assume the Duncan is Johnny Duncan, since his SS Bird has been pictured here. Can't remember if it's been posted or not, But, I'm not gonna go back thru the thread to see. So, I'll post it here.

Would be interesting to me to know just how many Stock & SS Pontiacs Bob Michael has been a part of. His name has been linked to lots of 'em. He might be a good candidate for the Pontiac Drag Racing Hall of Fame, if such a thing exists. May already be a member.

Just Googled it & nothing turned up. :D

Maybe some of the Long time Pontiac Stock & SS racers should start one.

That pic reminds me. Back in the old days, A-1 was the big name in torque converters. Seemed like all the quickest cars had A-1 decals on 'em. That car actually had two A-1 decals, one for converters & one for transmissions. So, that brings up a question for you guys who were racing back then. About what year, or general time period did A-1 lose it's #1 status, or are they still #1 ? I see they're still in business. But I see lots of other converter decals on cars. I see that Carroll Warling has an A-1 converter decal on his record holder.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Yes

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

OK, I said I'd try to dig up some more info on the Ken Shawver '78 T/A. Since we found from the Indy files that the performance really improved in '02, I decided to start there.

1st race I pulled up was the nat event near Chicago. And, there he was, at #28 on the Q-list @ .789 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

How 'bout the Pontiac Excitement Nats ? !!! :)

Ken was #32 @ .689 under. Peter Biondo was #41. I assume he was in the Hatari 4th gen, when it still had a 400. And Sal Biondo was listed #35, in a '91 GT car . I assume it also had Pontiac power, or did it ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

At the Craftsman Nats, he was #24 @ .913 under. Peter Biondo was #28 @ .881 under, & was RU at the race. At the time, it said Peter had won 19 nat events. Don't know how many were with Pontiac power, or in what classes.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

Ken had his new found power for this race. He was #16 @ 1.055 under. Peter Biondo was #65 @ .868 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

At the '04 Pontiac Excitment nats, he was #11 @ 1.040 under. Peter Biondo was #33 @ .853 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

Also noticed that there were 6 Pontiac Stockers at this race, & Sal Biondo was RU.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

Peter Biondo got RU in SS.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

That's all I could find for Ken in '04.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

I began lookin for Ken, in 2005, at the Pontiac Performance Nats. No SS.

But I took a peak at Stock.

Don Holmes was #1 @ -1.210. Fitting, I thought, because of the event name. :) Paul Dilcher was #8 @ -1.044. Kyle Riley was #13 @ -1.001. Dave Edwards was #15 @ - .962. Tim Gillespie was #23 @ - .888. Sal Biondo was #30 @ - .843.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

At the Carquest Nats, Ken was #10 @ - .968. Peter Biondo was #47 @ - .552.

At the Jeg's Sports Nats, Ken was #10 @ -1.072. Peter Biondo was #61 @ - .897.

Peter won.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

At the '06 Carquest Nats, Ken was #2 @ - 1.098. Peter was #18 @ -.938. Bobby Rashid is listed with a '68 Bird. But it's running GT/CA, so I assume it has a BBC engine

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

This is a good time to say this. And I'll probably repeat it occasionally. For most of the GT cars, I have no way of knowing what engine they have. So, if you guys see a Pontiac powered GT car that I leave out, please post that info. I need all the help I can get, especially with names & cars I'm not familiar with.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

OK, looks like 2007 is the year Monte Howard started driving the car. At Norwalk, he was #24 @ - 1.029.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

There are 2 things I'd like to point out here. Not only was this car quicker than most Pontiac SS cars(against it's index), but it may have been the only Pontiac powered car there. Obviously some of the GT cars could have had Pontiac power. I couldn't know, unless I was told by somebody who knows.

For guys that have raced Pontiacs for years, that has happened a LOT. Nationwide, the % of Pontiacs in SS is VERY small. In Stock & bracket racing, we found that MOST of the time we had the only Pontiac power at the race.

Hey, just made the wins that much better, to us. To get a win, we'd usually have to beat 5 Chevy powered cars. That's why it's even worth a look at Pontiac racing history. It would not be reasonable to look at the best Chevy powered Stock or SS cars, because there have been so many. Thousands, or probably 10's of thousands. Couldn't hope to mention all the good Chevy powered cars, thru the years.

Didn't find Monte at any more nat events, in '07, other than the US Nats. I've already mentioned it, but this is a good time to post it again. At the US Nats, Monte was #29 @ - 1.118. In a 128 car field. That's pretty quick. And, unless I missed a car, or a GT car had Pontiac power that I don't know about, Monte had the only Pontiac powered car in the field.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2007#indextop

Think about that. Your on the biggest drag racing stage in the world. And you're the only odd ball SS car with a Pontiac engine. That sounds like something we would have loved to experience. :D

I assume this car raced at div races & smaller races during the season. But I have no way to know. I accidentally ran across it listed at a race on the East coast. I haven't even been checking all the East coast nat events, thinking they didn't do much racing that far East.

So, if anybody has info about races the car won, please post that info in this thread. From what I've read, it is one of the quickest and longest running SS Pontiacs. And as mentioned, it still runs today.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

OK, we can break in at any time with any new info about old traditional Pontiac powered SS cars.

But, I wanna start talkin now about the GT cars. There are quite a few running nowadays. Don Kennedy has posted that he had a big part in the rules for GT. And, I assume he had one of the 1st Pontiac powered GT cars.

I have a list of all(or most of) the current GT cars. So, you guys who know:

Who were some of the first guys to run Pontiac powered GT cars ?

What year did they start running them ?

Were most of those car 3rd gen Birds ?

Was Robert Cruzen the 1st guy to stick a Pontiac engine in a Chevy body, for GT.

Besides he & Todd Frantz, who else now runs Pontiac power in a non-Pontiac body ?

Before we start talkin about individual cars, I wanna make a list of all the Pontiac powered GT cars that were active, as of the 2019 season. I'll start the list with those I can think of. Then as ya'll come up with more, I'll edit and add 'em to this list. That way, maybe we won't leave out anybody.

(1) Phil Momteith's Hatari, with several different drivers.

(2) Don Kennedy

(3) Leo Glasbrenner

(4) Greg Meyer

(5) Bill Kennedy, Victor Santos car

(6) Larry Maxwell

(7) Scott Burton

[8) The 2 McCarty cars.

(9) Robert Cruzen

(10) Todd Frantz

(11) Carroll Warling

(12) Keri Angeles Pari

(13) The 4th gen Bird that John Agneta drove some. Don't know a better description, right now. May be what some call the Johnny Duncan car ?

Ya'll give me more & I'll add 'em. Then later, we'll mention some that are no longer active, at least not with Pontiac power.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Some of the bodies that I know of that have been used are 1st, 3rd & 4th gen Bird, Sunfire, & the Cobalts.

I know that Carroll Warling ran his '74 Lemans in GT some. Before it was stolen, Lindy Lindholm may have run GT, when he ran his '74 Formy Stocker in SS. Can't remember for sure.

So, ya'll name other bodies you know have been converted to Pontiac power, for GT.

I know that 350, 400, 428, & 455 engines have been used. Any others ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Bill Rink has been running his car in gt lately

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Bob bales grand am is chev powered. Let us not forget the 70 ra4 gto out of div3 SS/IA. CURRENT CAR sorry i can't recall his name

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Bob bales grand am is chev powered. Let us not forget the 70 ra4 gto out of div3 Bill Eadelis current car

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

David Sidlo , GP with a 389 , AFB..Division 4 ..Practically your neighbor ;-)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Never heard the name. But I'll look him up & see what I can find out. Would have never thought I'd hear of a 389 AFB GT car.

But hey, that's what a lotta cars ran back in the '60's & '70's. So, you pull Jack Mullin's engine out of his wagon & put it in a GT car, it should run the index or better, I figure.

Looked up a few '63 389's, with AFB. 1 has a 250hp factor. Would be interestig to know just which 389 he's claiming.

OK, the 1st time I pull up his name is in 2018 at the Houston div race. He's #27 @ -.782. Listed as a '97 Firebird. So does that car also have a 389 or any Pontiac engine ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=336513

Or was the 389 powered car run several years back ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=324172

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=322961

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Thanks ! I'll remove him from the list.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Last pic I have is from '19 US Nats. He's running SS/MA.

Wonder what you'd have do to his car to run GT, without makin any engine changes ?

I know very little about GT rules.

Can you just tech in as a GT car, even tho you've made no changes ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

I don't think his original car was a 'bird but could be wrong.

The big question is how did he get away with the Mullins motor? It's stick shift only.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Just sayin that some guys got quite a bit of power out of 389 engines. So, there's no reason why somebody couldn't squeeze a little more out of one, nowadays.

I'm not familiar with all the 389 combos. Have no idea which engines came with which trans. But, assume that out of all the years a 389 DID come with an auto, maybe you could find one that would make a decent GT engine.

The only 389 cars I know of that have been running lately are Norman Warling's '62 Cat Stocker & Bob Michael's '62 GP Stocker. I think they both run Tri-Power.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

62 tripower 389 318hp was defactored to 275hp. As for ss to gt nothing has to change but the gt cars at same hp to weight index is .05 faster most guys do it to avoid heads up runs

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Bob Bales used to run a older Pontiac Firebird with a 455 Pontiac engine also

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Thanks for that. So, that means that any SS car can just say they wanna run GT, instead of regular SS, and that's all there is to it ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

OK. Any idea aprox what was he last year in which he ran a Pontiac engine, so I can try to look up some of his results ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Bales ran sd 73 bird way back in the day div 7 chino California i think his trunk blew off in the pits one don't know the reason why 🤪🤫

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Well, since you brought it up.....Bob Bales was quite the colorful character of D -7....not sure If it was the deck lid or back glass that blew out of the car....urban myth sez there was some trickery involved BUT ,,,,we ll leave that for another thread......

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Yes Most SS cars can entry both SS or GT with no changes
greg

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

PI think the 70s

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

So that was not a GT car ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Thanks ! I had no idea. Just assumed that SOME change would have to be made, even if it was a very small one.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

OK, we've mentioned most of the Pontiac powered GT cars that were recently active.

Now I wanna see if you guys can come up with some names of some of the first guys to do it. I'm talkin about purpose built GT cars, not just those that choose to run GT, with their reg SS car.

We'll assume that Don Kennedy was among the 1st. Who else ? Pics & other info would be helpful.

Just wondering if some were thinkin about building one, but waiting to see how other guys did, running a GT car.

Who's 3rd gen GT car was featured in one of the Angeles & McCarthy Pontiac books ? When I saw how they used 2nd gen motor mounts, I decided to build a 3rd gen for a bracket car, back in '07. I had a book, but gave it to somebody else. Now that I think about it, That may have been a street car, since most use plates to mount the engine.

That brings up a SS question. Have motor plates always been legal in SS ? If not, what year were plates made legal ?

I'll go ahead & ask another dummy question here. I see that most SS Pontiacs now run a dist aprox where the water pump is, on stock Pontiac V8 engines. Noticed in the Art Peterson video, that he still runs the dist in the normal location. So, what exactly are these front mounted dist called ? Who makes 'em for Pontiac V8's ? And what are the advantages of that type ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

I'm a dummy let me answer that question it's called a cam driven distributor made by jesel or MSD originally developed for comp cars with sheet metal intakes according to Bob Kaiser so the back 4 ports could match the front ports by moving intake back on the gt cars that didn't come with pont eng the dist sits further back in car in my 4th gen under windshield

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

No Bales ran a 455 SD

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

So, is that part of the crank trigger system. I located that for a Pontiac. Didn't find the dist, except for Chevy.

Hey, sorry to be so ignorant about this. I've seen pics of 'em on Pontiac drag cars. Just have never learned anything about 'em.

Is there a power advantage ? OR ? :confused:

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Ok, from what I remember, Bob Bales had a Super Stock 1973 SD455 Firebird back in the pre head porting days. He later fielded a 3rd gen. Firebird with the Super Duty engine. That was the car that had the hatch glass shatter when something that looked like a fire extinguisher exploded in the car in the pits at Pomona. After a hiatus, he debuted the Grand Am which had a Chevy powerplant. Bruce Fulper recently had the 3rd gen. car for sale on this site.
If I do this right, you will see something some of you may recognize. Tibor Kadar won Division 7 with this car a couple of years ago. He bought it from Stacy McCarty. The car started out as a body in white. Since I bought it, it has new paint, carpet, chromoly cage, Goodyear radials, and swapped out the 6x headed 400 for an SD455. God willing, the car will be in Norwalk to start the season. If things go really well I will drag out the T/A stocker too.
Ok no photo tonight. Will try again in the morning.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Great info ! Thanks !

And good luck with both cars ! :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

So, what about the "Macho Poncho", from div 7 ?

A close-up shows Bob Bales on it, right above the rear tire.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

No changes are necessary. Just the difference in indexes. SS/MA is 11.85, whereas GT/QA is 11.75.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Well, that definitely settles that. I may be the last to know.

I figure that won't be the last thing I learn thru these threads. But, learning is a good thing ! :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

On the distributor question when u race a pontiac you have to massage chev parts to fit sometimes

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

Yeah, I guessed that when I didn't find a Pontiac dist listed.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Super Stockers
 

I think Norman Warling mentioned that Carroll was gonna try an iron head 428, in his GT car. They have a 10hp less factor than the alum heads. So, has there been any testing done to see how much power difference the alum E-heads make, if any ?

Do ya'll know of any other GT cars that have run an iron head 428 ?