Re: Deconstructing Stock
 

I think it is time to consider GT stock. Similar to the SS concept only no FWD conversion cars. Imagine if you could run an older body style and a newer engine type. Maybe you want a new CJ DP or Camaro. Just can't cut the check for $$$. Do the engine R and D in the older car while you build your own. Your old car is worth something on the market and you can take some time building the new one. This way you don't have to be a rich racer or remortgage your soul to play with the new engines.

Also, there are tons of street rods doing this already. Fans would understand this. Ihave seen Camaros, Novas and chevelles with LS engines in them for example.

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Why limit it to certain body styles, with weight per HP you get a bigger variety of cars in the lane. A good think IMHO

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I was thinking simpler to police and to spec more part numbers. It would be easiest to pick one platform per mfgr. And you can keep a close eye on things

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....

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I go to the occasional Friday Night "Street Legals" races at our local track, and from what I see, the vast majority of the younger racers don`t want to "tweak, fiddle, or massage" the "crap" factory parts in search or a couple of hundreths here and there. They would much rather bolt on a blower, turbo, or nitrous kit, and go for the big, and easy performance improvements. Even if they are "All Motor" guys, they have absolutely no interest in working with many of their cars OE parts. They would much rather slap on a pair of aftermarket aluminum heads and induction system. And judging by the number of 12 &11 second cars running 130+mph speeds, they don`t place much value on making their cars suspension work very well. Very few of these street legal folks ever move into bracket racing, as it`s "too expensive" to enter, although they have no issues using $60.00 to $80.00 worth of nitrous in a night.

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Isn't that a funny thing? At our local track they'll beat on and blow up their stuff for a trophy and a gift certificate for a pizza!
I did bring my turbo Sunbird over one night and cause a bit of a stir though. Some of the regulars went over to the track owner and wanted to know "what kind of car is that and who is that old man"?

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Billy, I see that you are still starting trouble where ever you go. Messing with the locals I see. I cannot believe that you didn't become upset with their comments. I mean you are old, but what kind of car?

Bring the Imports in, save Stock now. The Rotary is under factored, all imports are rated very low. Could be a plethora of dime rockets. Don't worry about factoring, NHRA will just take the info provided from the manufacturer as they have done in the past. And, if they are too fast and demolish the current racers hard work with their tried and proven combo, we'll just make up another class. AA/SA/I, BB/SA/I, CC/SA/I

"Save the sport, get an import" will be the new slogan at participating race tracks across the country.

And in the final round it's going to be a Peugeot vs Soul. (insert music and rodents)

Ron Ortiz
U/SA I'm sexty and I know it

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I've often thought drag racers would be a prime group for study by an accomplished Sociologist. No, not a Psychiatrist because most of us already know we're crazy as hell for hanging around this long.

Not sure whether we pay our way or not, however, I do know we have provided nhra with some very handsome tax relief over the years. As members of the so-called "nhra family" we should not be treated as unwanted step children. The nhra guys say they subsidize our side of the sport and, at the same time, they fail to mention all the benefits (think dollars) they have received from our loyalty over the years.

There really is nothing wrong with Stock, Super Stock or all of Sportsman racing for that matter. All we need is a decent organization that will live up to its obligations. An organization that will promulgate a fair set of rules, then abide by and enforce their own rules in a fair manner. For years we have seen way too much freelancing on the part of Race Officials (powercrats) and the suits (greed monkeys) in Glendora.

In the end, drag racing as we know it, is probably on its way out. A good measurement will come if the US Military stops coughing up dollars for the Pros. Another measurement will be what happens to all of Bruton Smith's holdings when he expires. I do not wish to come across as calloused but he is not a young man. Neither am I.

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The biggest reason more young racers are not involved in stock and super stock is the cost. If you look around any qualifying sheet from a divisional or a national event, you will see quite a few 2nd generations drivers and some 3rd generation drivers at this point. Not many new racers that don't have family members involved in stock/super stock racing. Many of us probobly wouldn't be involved in class racing if it wasn't for family members getting us involved. I certainly would be less likely to be racing today if it wasn't for my father's influence when I was growing up. Alot of my friends that I race with in pro eliminator always comment on how our stockers leave the starting line and how cool alot of the cars are. Most of these racers love watching stock and super stock racing, but always comment that "they can't justify spending big money on a car to race for minimal money." Payout wise, bracket racing gives alot more incentive to someone to become involved. They also in most cases don't have to take any time off of work to go racing either. The time someone needs off work to go class racing is a big issue too.

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It took 89 posts for someone to get it right on the money.Thanks Ryan.Give dad my regards.Hope to see him down the line,always a pleasure to speak with the both of you.

Ed

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It only took two things to get me out of racing: Supercharged cars, and the uneven application of rules in the NHRA.

David
The New Hemi Guy

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Why is that? Do you feel that certain cars have an unfair advantage in a heads up race?

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Oh the irony

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That was from a guy with a Drag Pack. LOL!

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Yeah, that's funny!

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Ryan is right on.
Why would you want to deal with all these issues to race for $1,000 plus sticker money you may or may not get.
I was at a Bracket race Saturday that paid $20,000 to win and $200 a round starting 3rd rd winner.

Another thing I see funny about these posts are the fact guys are asking for GT STOCK, Crate Motors, Pure Stock, and FWD drive classes. Last IHRA race I went to they had all those classes.

I know you guys think I'm a horses bu tt, but I do love Stock and Super Stock
Chip

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Thanks Ed! I will tell my dad you said hi when I see him. Hope you're enjoying your retirement!

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Atlanta was a 2-day race, $160 entry, and probably won $3K+ in a 5 round race. And they had a BBQ Friday night. In some aspects, some parts of NHRA are becoming what IHRA was 10 years ago.

Point of information regarding GT Stock, however. IHRA does limit it to '80 and newer cars, '79 and older engines... If it was open like Super Stock, I would've built the DragPak motor with some slight changes to be able to run both.

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X3.
Racers don't like being the underdog. When you have people by 1/2 second, it's easy to be a good sportsman.

QUOTE=Pvt Parts;333824]Yeah, that's funny![/QUOTE]

This might be a shot in the dark. Is it possible that the reason that the car counts are down, is that the economy and the country have fallen on its ***? People don't have, or want to spend extra money on racing because they need it to live. If you work for a company that is constantly downsizing
or reducing operating cost, you are not making the money your used to. Who is going to invest in racing, when you have to feed your family?
I'm not sure there is many racing venues that are truly thriving right now. Im sure the high dollar bracket races do well, but the local standard buck deal is off in attendence. If you have to make money at these races to continue to participate you should find another venue. People with every day businesses are struggling .
The reason for less participation, is people are spending less money.
10 years ago, we were thriving. Good car counts, new racers, lower fuel costs. Now that our dollar is worth less, we are feeling the pinch of real everyday life.

I'm not sure Pure Stock, No heads up, more heads up's, pump gas, rocket fuel, ect is going to help anything right now. If and when things get better financially is when people will come back...

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Ding ding ding!!!! We have a winner. I'm with Todd Hoven on this, very valid points.

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You folks are on the inside looking out. You don't know how hard it is to get in. You all have friends on the inside that helped you get in and you don't know how hard it is to get there. Several years ago I thought I might try to do some NHRA drag racing. I called Memphis and Glendora over 100 times trying to get info on how to get a license. Nobody could tell me anything. I finally called Frank Hawley and flew down there, spent about $5,000 and got my SG/SC license. Several years went by and I finally bought a 2011 Drag Pak Challenger. Now for the first time in my life I had an NHRA legal car and I thought I might want to go to a few races. I called NHRA but they said my license had expired and I would have to start all over. I thought it might be good to get a Top Sportsman license since I have one of those cars also and Frank didn't offer those at that time so I went to an IHRA school in Florida. I was told it could be converted to an NHRA license. Another 2,400 mile trip and another $5,000 spent. NHRA wanted a EKG since I'm over 50, so another $160 physical. $300 for tags for the cars. Now I'm ready, so I called the NHRA division director and she told me I have to go to an NHRA track and make some runs there. She suggested Bristol. (A 1,200 mile tow.) Well, I've already tried that at Memphis years ago. They don't have a clue what you are talking about. NHRA wants me to start all over to get my license. I have considerable resources compared to a young person. How do you expect them to get into NHRA drag racing? You are some nice people on classracer.com but you don't have a clue how hard it is to get into NHRA drag racing. You just don't have a clue. I have given up on the NHRA. I will race at my local track, I enjoy it there.

P.S. On July 4th 1970 I was 13 and rode out to our local track in town (Stuttgart, Arkansas) to watch the drags. When I got to the gate on my motorcycle the guy said "You want to race it?" I didn't know what to say so I said ok. There was only 3 motorcycles and I ended up winning. I'm not sure if it was NHRA or IHRA but that's how hard it was to get in back then.

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Todd Hoven, you are right the economy is in a recession at this moment, one more reason to make sure that we do not lose what we have worked so hard to have. Pure Whatever you want to call it makes sense in allowing new blood to enter with the possibility to move up to stock&super stock and beyond or just stay where they can afford without losing their 401k(life saving). I've talked to many young people and the ones to go balls out in any series usually will last only until they go broke or realize the fortune they have lost in such short amount of times, on the other side I know of some racers who have race for over 50 years and are still doing it because they took their time doing it right, you can be a flash in the pan or you can be in for the long haul it just depends how much you care. I care and hope that the sport will continue, I've invested time and money so that others have a place to race safely, I've given money to my local track to help pay for the purse at times knowing this would help them survive, twenty five years later they're still in business so I know it must of helped. I know other racers who have put money from their own business to help class racers a place to race for a decent return, look at Gary Richards he is investing in racing because he cares that it survives,if he could invest that money in direct TV broadcasting in Manhattan for a 100% better return than he's getting from Division advertisement. All this to say is we have to bring in new blood for the future not for the right now.Claude Ruel

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Some good points here so far.
No doubt the entry fees are sky high. The Nat'l event fee is up 10 times what it was when I started racing them. Fuel is 8-10 times higher too.
Are the payouts up ten times? I don't think so!

I also agree ,there's nothing wrong with the current Sportsman classes, if you can afford to participate.
What I, and a few others are advocating is some kind of entry level class for the Divisionals...
Pump gas, reduced entry fee, no add ons } numbers, points fees etc.
Stock appearing, but minimal tech.

As it stands now, we have no minor league, farm team, or call it what you will...
I don't see where more participation in the brackets is the answer. We have plenty of local racers...In fact,that's all we've got on a weekly basis. Most have little or no interest or knowledge in our type of racing. I don't see where that's necessarily their fault either.

But so far, no one has touched on, what I see as a major problem>>>>
Drag racing is now fragmented into a myriad of associations and formats.

When I started racing , a beginner would go to a local track and be put into a class, whether it was Stock, Gas, Stock Sports and so on . This is where the current incarnation of Stock Eliminator evolved from. There were no ET brackets, not even a time only lane back then
Nowadays, you have ADRL, America's Fastest Street Car, Mustang Drags, Super Chevy Series, Pump Gas drag series, T&T nights, Import Drags,
Nostalgia events, NHRA Hot Rod Reunions (where NHRA competes with itself, I guess)
Nostalgia Super Stock events, where there are a bunch of old Max Wedge and Hemi cars that have drifted away from NHRA Stock....Diesel Drags , Motorcycle Drags, Jr. Dragster Nat'l events, Summit Series Bracket Racing, HAMB old time drags, where there are no handicaps, no payouts, no winners,..just a buch of retro guys burning rubber all day long....I know I'm forgetting a few hundred more.

The point is , I think we may have reached the Humpty Dumpty accident scene...and nobody's ever going to put it all back together again.

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There is a bunch of places to go race. I don't see that as a problem. It offers something different for everyone and their budget. Not everyone has a taste for stock, super gas, comp eliminator, pro-Stock, top fuel, drag radial, outlaw, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile etc...

I think it is important to get people into drag racing as a sport/business/hobby. Not so much getting people into stock/super stock eliminator. If people lose interest with stock and it adapts or dies as a sign of the times for that particular products shelf life. It's creative destruction because in its place will be another form(or 2+) that is parallel with the times of the interested people.

I know that is not a popular view and I'm not trying to demean the class in the slightest. Nor do I think the class is anywhere close to dying off as there are new cars being built and lanes full. I will promote the class to the best of my abilities and try to help it prosper but the big picture is Drag Racing as a whole.

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Mark,

I'm glad you're sticking with this thread. You and others have offered many good thoughts.

I haven't read all of the posts and this thought may have been offered before. How about bringing back the old gas classes? No cars younger than 25 years old. Classes could be AA through H and they could include import classes. There are lots of cheap mid 80's cars around. Gassers could have their own category and eliminator. I'll bet a lower class gasser could be built for under $10,000.00. I would build one in a second. It may cause car counts to suffer in other categories but it would give the entry level folks a place to jump in and old guys like me a chance to re-live the past.

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I don't know, Bruce.
NHRA stands for No Hot Rods Allowed, doesn't it?

Strange as it sounds, the folks who like those kind of cars, seem to have very little interest in actually drag racing them.
We saw that with the imports too, didn't we?

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rickseeman,
Why don't you give IHRA a try. They've got classes you can run. THere is also a Divisional coming up at Memphis you can get you license at too.

If you want to go NHRA racing Call Roy Hill. Fly to Charlotte and make runs in one of his cars.

Chip Johnson

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Non classracer mentality= Why spend many thousands of dollars to race for $1,000 bucks and a trophy.

Things that are killing class racing and not bringing in New Blood.

Costs
Hassles ( I always said if it was easy everybody would do it)
Lack of Contingency money.
It used to mean someting to get a Ironman/Wally, They give them away at bracket races too.
Being at the track 3-4 days for 1 race.

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IHRA already has all the tools in place for Stock GT.
Only problem is that only 1979 and older engines are allowed. :( No EFI allowed.

If that Stock GT class allowed any eligible Stocker engine in any eligible Stocker body, then that would be fun to dream of the combos.

My favorite would be a 2010 4.6 3V CJ engine in a 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. :)

I know-I know.
It would create too many headaches for tech.
2 sets of specs for each entry. One for the claimed engine and 1 for the body used.

Sure would be fun to dream tho.

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Nothing New since 1970
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...SuperStock.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...kDale/8x10.jpg

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The Bracket deal is good, but I'm not sure you can go anywhere and race for 1,000. Now. I think payouts at those races are not at an all time high. The only place I know that pays real well is Numida, but there at the top.

As for a Wally/Ironman. These trophys mean something different to anyone who is fortunate to win, steal, buy, trade, ect... If you go for all out value. The NHRA race/class Wally is worth more dollars wise if you are auctioning them, compared to one given away at a bracket race to the winner. Not to the guy earning it, just selling it.

Our class/sport participation is down because people don't have the extra money in this economy. Alot of bracket guy aren't coming into our deal because it is very expensive to buy a competitive car. Harder to build a car for our class, because it is much different than building a footbrake bracket car. Most guys in this day and age aren't patient or savy enough to build one from scratch . Nobody in this day and age wants or is willing to pay their dues to do it.
When the money comes back, the attendance will. Bottom line.

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Yes there is. ......Charbonneau retired..

So solly, Cholly

Re: Deconstructing Stock
 

been reading this thread for quite awhile and thought it was time to chime in.
I too started racing when our local track had no bracket racing. We didn't even know what it was until probably 1973 0r '74. You either ran stock class for a trophy or stock or super stock eliminator for a cash prize. No combos back then, both separate eliminators along with comp and modified (production) eliminators. I remember always large fields of cars racing and always a great weekly show put on. I had several friends who I grew up with racing almost every week. Today, I am the only one of our close knit group still active. Most of my friends just kept throwing money at their cars until they were broke and lost interest. I always had the slowest of the cars which hardly ever broke. But , I always raced within my means and still do today by mainly competing at CCRA combo events. The cost of running a national event with children in college to support is too exhorbent, so I choose to race locally to feed my addiction.
What I find sad is the bracket racers who approach me at our STK./SS combo races and have no clue what is involved in running one of these class cars. They will ask me why I don't have a 4 bbl. on my motor so I can run quicker or where is my nitrous bottle located. I try to educate them as best I can and explain some of the rules we must conform to. I guess these are folks who never got the opportunity like most of us on this forum to experience how awesome sportsman racing really is with all our restrictions, etc.

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Well you forgot how NHRA treats us like red headed step children,lol. I respect the guy's putting all they can into stock ,Just have a hard time justify the return on my investment. I can do alot of bracket racing for what it cost to run the stocker for a weekend.

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Todd,
Can't argue that post much at all.
Chip

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Chris you hit the nail right on the head, because paying $25 bucks to race for $150 bucks may not set anyones pants on fire, but paying $25 bucks to race for $1,200 should (which is what the Import Face Off organization is doing for their top two categories of FWD Q8, & FIP Q8). There are other classes that pay anywhere from $200 to $500 bucks, but all of the classes pay just $25 bucks for entry, and that's why they're growing...I hope 'Vegas might get one of their races, as it would be worth it to go there, and perhaps I can turn my luck around at that track, with the help of some imports???

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Pardon my ignorance, but what is a grade point issue? I am thinking of getting back into Stock class racing after being away for 40 years, and this is a new one to me.
Marty Knox

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As I see it you all missed Bret's point.

The simple fact is that 99.9% of today's kids don't want to go drag racing and very few even know what it is.

They would rather buy a big muffler and a giant stereo and hang around the mall parking lot all night.

Guy's, the interest is just not there, no matter what new rules we come up with.

JimR

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So we should pull our flag down and give up? Come on, help introduce your sport to newbies. I once took my truck, trailer and race car to the local cruize night and it was like flies on raw meat, they were interested and even some showed enough interest by showing up at the strip the next week-end, it all depends on how much you want to pass it on. Look, they have so much more information at the tips of their fingers we have to make it fun, different breed fo different times. If we are all going to be honest we were not so different, look how many muscle car that have been destroyed because we didn't take good care of them, as soon as we left the dealers parking lot, waving to the salesman as we were burning 100' out of the parking lot. Get involve. Claude Ruel

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I think one factor in the waning popularity is the lack of local speed shops. I 'hung out' at Central Jersey Speed & Machine in Fords, NJ when I was in high school. A lot of my interest came from the stock class racers who would come in. After a semester of college I went to work for them hot tanking blocks, watching the store, and learning about machining from Nick Tosi. I did go back to, and finish college but I still have an interest in Stock class drag racing.
I guess nowadays speed equipment is bought online from Jegs and Summit.
Marty Knox