Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

It's below the decklid..Two body seems on one side and matching gas flap on the other..
Next?

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/im...pe_0k_rear.JPG

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Charlie, are you asking where the gas filler cap is located on that one, oh never mind I think I see it...I've always liked the looks of the '58 Chevy Impala hardtops & convertibles.

http://stwot.motortrend.com/files/20...a-1024x640.jpg

http://www.xframechevy.com/wp-conten...48-650x666.jpg
http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceout.gif

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

How about one of a '58 Pontiac Bonneville convertible...

http://image.hotrod.com/f/whereitbeg...ag_racing+.jpg

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Man....You guys are good......

My beater '58 Chevy was that pinkish color.....except it sat under a tree for who knows how long and the paint was badly faded and stained from the tree......Like I said...some Comet and a wipe down with some oil to give it some shine....283....slip and slide.....powerglide....

A friend in high school had a real nice '58 Impala.....348 3-2's 4 speed....Black red interior....

I'd take theat '58 Bonneville anyday but would prefer a hardtop.....

I had a '60 Catalina convertible......My wife planted it into the back of a brand new Cougar.......Engine and trans moved forward enough to disconnect the driveshaft and fan went into the radiator....I replaced the entire nose and brought home a junkyard nose tied to the roof of that '58 Chevy....Now that was quite a sight going down the road.....I made it though....and passed a cop on the way......

I do not miss my wife...but do miss some of my cars from back then...LOL

She was a one woman wrecking crew in more ways than one......and not fun....

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Here's one of Lindholm & Janes old car...

http://classracer.com/classforum/pic...pictureid=1993

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Here's an old article on the Mary Ann Foss '58 Pontiac called 'Black Magic'...

http://allshops.org/community/Commun...0177935150.jpg

http://allshops.org/community/Commun...0177935150.jpg

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Guys, there is a guy on the Hamb looking for info on a 58 Pontiac stocker he now owns. I'm trying to help him out. Looks like two tone green with Union 76 lettering on the front fenders. Maybe Div III car? He's trying to find his way over here to pick Jacks brain about it.:D

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

I don't think the 58's gas door swung up but was hinged on the side like a 57 chev and opened to the right. I remember grabbing my Dad's on the left side bottom and swinging it open.

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Does anyone here have any idea how much a 58 Chieftain weighed in at(race weight) back in the day?
I would really like to know what Ramon's car weighed.

I'm working on a 58 Chieftain that was raced back in the 60's, up through the early 70's when NHRA changed the stock class rules that bumped 10 year old(or older) cars out of stock class drag racing.

I'm hoping to have this back on the track within the next month.
This car competed at the first 3 Popular Hot Rodding Championships at US131 Dragway, Martin Michigan in 69,70,&71

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

http://classracer.com/classforum/att...6&d=1365125895
http://classracer.com/classforum/att...7&d=1365125895
http://classracer.com/classforum/att...8&d=1365125895

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

putting a 67 400 in the car with a 700R4 trans, back to the 4.30 Safe-T-Track rear.

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

saw some numbers of curb weight @ 3385 or so and shipping weight @ like 3070--- do not know how accurate those numbers are might help give you an idea tho

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

i still have my 3x2s off of my 58 pontiac bonneville conv

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

In 1968,

Ramon Lowe was running in G/SA (11.00 to 11.49 Wt/Hp) with the 1958 Pontiac Chieftain.

370/338 HP 'Fuel Injection'

The Pontiac's 'Shipping Weight' was a minimum of #3718 lbs.

Later, in 1969 - the NHRA deemed the 370/338 HP 'Fuel Injection' combination illegal for use on this 1958 Model Pontiac.

Photo from March 1968, at the Hot Rod Magazine Championships, at Riverside International Raceway (California).

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../RamonLowe.jpg



In 1969, Ramon Lowe was now running in 'I/SA', with a 58' Pontiac Chieftain and a different HP combination.

1969.....I/SA........( 11.50 - 11.99 Wt/Hp )

http://www.pontiacpower.com/RamonLoweAD.jpg


And in 1970, classed in 'J/SA'........( 11.50 to 11.99 Wt/Hp )

Chasing the...'J/SA'... NHRA National Record of...........12.90 @ 106.50 MPH

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/a...5&d=1248378780

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Doc,

Jay Hamilton is running a 1958 Pontiac Bonneville Hardtop 'Sports Coupe' with
a 370/330 HP '3 x 2 Barrel'

Classed in H/SA {11.50 to 11.99 Wt/Hp} .......... {#3825 lbs. ~ 330 HP = 11.59 Wt/Hp}

In 1958, the Bonneville was available as a Hardtop 'Sports Coupe' or 'Convertible'.

The wheelbase was 122".

The body length = 211.7"

Shipping Weight = #3825 lbs.

The key item, is that the 1958 Bonneville's were 'fitted' with the powerful 'Star Chief' engine.

The Bonneville had the 'full -trim' package and exterior side moldings.

Available with;

Standard Engine
* 370 / 255 HP '4-Barrel'
* 370 / 285 HP '4-Barrel'

Factory Option Engine
* 370 / 300 HP '3 x 2 Barrel'
* 370 / 310 HP 'Fuel Injection'

Dealer Installed Option
* 370 / 315 HP '4-Barrel'
* 370 / 330 HP '3 x 2 Barrel'

Over-The-Counter Option
* 370 / 338 HP 'Fuel Injection'

The 'Tri-Power' option was only $100.

The 'Fuel Injection' option was $500

It also featured the 'Strato-Flight Hydra-Matic' 4-Speed Automatic with a 3.97 '1st-Speed' low-gear.

Standard Gear-Ratio's
* 3.23 {3-Speed Manual}
* 3.64 {Automatic}

Optional Gears {Dealer-Installed}
* 3.90
* 4.10

The Bonneville was a beast, and weighed in at 3785 bs.

Photo from March 1968 {Hot Rod Magazine Championships @ Riverside International Raceway}

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/o...ilton20Hot.jpg

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Wow. More information please. This is really cool.

What FI did the Pontiac have?
Was the 370 cuin engine later became the 389 and later the 400?

D

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Dan,

I'm no expert, but the 370 Block {4.063" Bore x 3.563" Stroke} was a slightly different
animal than the longer-stroked 1959 and later Pontiac engines.

The 'Fuel Injection System' was built by Rochester, and was very problematic
on the street, as well as adding $500 cost to the Dealer Price of the car.

Only 500 or so of the 1958 Pontiac's were produced with the 'Fuel Injection' option.

Despite problems on the 'Street', the guys at the Drag Strip could really 'dial-in' the
'Fuel Injection' unit, and get those 370's to fly.

The 'high-performance' 370 had a 10.5-1 Compression-Ratio, and there were several
Camshaft units available.

Also 'High-Rate' Valve Springs were included with the more radical bumpstick,
as well as 1.65-to-1 Rocker Arms.

Pontiac provided the 'special' Camshafts and they had 'special codes'
*) "886"
*) McKellar #6, #7 and #10

By 1968, these engine combinations were heavily protested by the competition, and in
1969 NHRA deemed several of them as 'illegal options'.

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

The Mckellar cams were solid lifter cams......and very radical in a street car.

I had one in my '58 Chieftan for a while but don't recall what number it was...

I also had a complete F.I. unit......

I removed it from a '58 SuperChief 4 dr hdtp......along with the fender emblems......The car was laying in a farmers field in Flemington N.J.

In 1969 or 1970 NHRA no longer allowed combinations that were not available as regular production line available and this knocked out dealer installed optional parts as well as many combos that were really never built at all......engine/trans combinations like hydro's in sedan deliveries.....and 4 speeds in cars that never came with them..just to name a few...

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Rich,

I was always confused with those Pontiac Combinations,

As to what combination came from the Factory, what was the Dealer Installed Option, and what came in the 'Trunk'.

Factory Camshaft Applications for the Pontiac 370
Part #521357 -------- .373"/.373" Lift ~ 252*/252" Duration ~ 38* Overlap ~ Code '357'
Part #529472 --------.407"/.411" Lift ~ 273*/282* Duration ~ 55* Overlap ~ Code '472'
Part #522869 --------.406"/.406" Lift ~ 289*/298* Duration ~ 50* Overlap
Part #524886 --------.411"/.411" Lift ~ 283*/293" Duration ~ 60* Overlap ~ Code''886'

The McKellar #6 was introduced in 1958.

The McKellar #7 was introduced in 1960 {.404"/.405 ~ 300"/304* Duration}
The McKellar #10 was introduced in 1961 {.520"/.520" Lift ~ 306*/320* Duration}

The McKellar #7 and #10 Camshafts were 'Solid Lifter' designs, but later a Hydraulic 'design' version was offered.

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

McKellar was the engineer from Pontiac that created/designed the OHV engine for Pontiac---- he was an authority on the subject of valve train/camshafts etc... Melling provided mamy the hi-po camshafts to GM and they had the "masters"--- Might check with Melling about McKellar cams & specs--FED387

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

1958 Chieftain

Wheelbase = 122"
Body Length = 210"

The 'Entry Level' Pontiac for 1958

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.45331...66242&pid=15.1

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

All Pontiac std production cams were hydraulics. They never offered a solid on any engine.

They did have a long list of Hi Performance parts that you could order from your local dealer if they were interested in trying to get the parts for you.

It was not always an easy deal.....

They made special exhaust manifolds along with those Mckellar cams and the additional valve train parts like springs and retainers .....

The parts were designated with a T-for trophy......and the first ones I knew about were designated T-395A and fit cars like my '58 Chieftan

Better designed high flow cast iron exhaust manifolds with dual exhaust...

With a Tri-Power and a Mckellar cam and and a set of 4.10's or 4.30's your old Pontiac would run pretty strong.....Mine went in the 14's with an AFB.....and 4.56 gears with a mostly stock exhaust system....4 speed auto...

I tried to get those T-395A manifolds for my '58 but the parts were not available by the mid 60's.....Headers tended to leak and were too noisy to me for a street car.....although when I had 4.56's you could not hear anything but the engine screaming under the hood.....

Later parts for 389's were T-425A designated........

389's ran very well.....and again with a cam and Tri-Power carbs they could put one of those big tanks in the low 14's or quicker as a street car.....

They really needed to be hot rodded a little and they improved a lot....

Do the heads......distributer and carb(s) and add some rear gears of at least 3.90's and some Sunoco 260......

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Mine was white with a blue cove and roof....Very nice paint done by a well known local body shop in lacquer.......I waxed it every Saturday in 1965.....I loved that car! I installed an interior from a '62 Olds Starfire and it looked much better than the factory cheap seats......

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Did Pontiac use the same FI on the Chevy?

A friend of mine had the 327/375 back in the days.
Said the injectors got fouled up on the leaded gas.
One of the reasons the gas became unleaded.

D

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

The Pontiac F.I. unit was made by Rochester just like the Chevy so yes they were similar but did not interchange in anyway,,,,

The Pontiac unit fit Pontiac heads...had a separate water crossover manifold and a mechanical drive type distributer.

I never worked on any F.I unit Chevy or Pontiac so my knowledge about them is very limited.

The Pontiac F.I. unit I had sat in my basement for a few years until I sold it.......I recall paying less than $100 for it and selling it for about $300. I can only guess what one would sell for today....but know it must be thousands of dollars....
They used very small copper fuel lines to nozzles in the intake as I recall.....and the distributer drove a pump....but I have zero hands on knowledge here and it has been about 40 years since I even saw one !

I had friends who raced them on Chevy's and had no problem with them but you had to know what you were doing with them for sure....and they did have a bad reputation on street cars like Corvettes......The rap was that they leaked and were hard to keep in tune and caused fires......

I worked on a lot of HP cars in the old days.....Never once worked on a Fuelie Corvette and never, ever saw a F.I. Pontiac on the street...very rare units for sure....

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Rich B,

Thanks for the follow up.

From what I found in an old Magazine Article.

Part I

The 1958 Bonneville was to be made available with the
* 370/300 HP ~ '3 x 2' Barrel'
* 370/310 HP ~ 'Fuel Injection'

This combination was only to be available with the Bonneville Model.

Featuring;
* 10.5-1 Compression-Ratio Cylinder Heads {65 CC}
* High-Lift Camshaft


Part II

In March 1958, an 'Extra Horsepower' Nascar Certification version of the 370 was available.

Featuring the "Tempest 395-A' code.

PK Option = $233 {Available in all Models}
* 370/315 HP ~ '4-Barrel'
* High-Lift Camshaft ~ {Dealer Installed}

PM Option = $331 {Available in all Models}
* 370/330 HP ~ '3 x 2' Barrel
* Special High-Lift Camshaft ~ {Dealer Installed}
* Special Exhaust Manifolds

The 370/338 HP 'Fuel Injection' must have been an 'over-the-counter' performance add-on.

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

The car I got the F.I. off of was a SuperChief and it was a very rare model.

It looked totally stock.....and had the F.I. emblems on the front fenders and they looked like they were factory installed...

Pontiac made 2 different wheelbase cars in '58 I believe

The Bonnevilles and Super Chiefs were the longer wheelbase models

The base model Chieftans and Star Chiefs were the shorter wheelbase.

My memory is only so good after 40 plus years...and I do think the T part number for the HP parts was for Tempest and not Trophy as I posted earlier....

My local Pontiac dealer had a real great guy behind the parts counter and he put up with me inquiring about those T-395A manifolds and tried to get them for me....

A few years later I bought a very nice '60 Catalina Convertible from him...and also went to work at that dealership as a line mechanic and was there in the mid to late '70's......Not much of a performance era,,,,I did work on a lot of TA Firebirds but never saw the Bandit....LOL The only Bandit was GM......cause they sold some real junk in that era,,,,,

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Rich,

Were those 'Fuel Injection' systems 'useless' on the street.

I remember nodody wanted them, especially the guys with
the 327 'Fuelie' Corvette's.

On the 1958 Pontiac's

Chieftain, Super Chief and Bonneville all were built on the
122" Wheel-Base, but the Bonneville used the longer 211.7"
body style.

I think they could just barely fit in a 18' Depth Garage.

1958 Bonneville 'Fuel Injection'

'Fuel Injection' emblems, located on front-fenders 'above molding' and trunk-lid 'lower right side'.

http://cthst.com/vanguardmotorsales///558H1699-13sm.jpg

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Here ya go:

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Just sold my '58 Chieftain Tripower car at Auction in Greensboro NC, had only 29k on it and was unrestored.

JimR

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

1958 Bonneville 'Fuel Injection'

1958 Dealer Price........ $3481
Fuel Injection 'option'...... $500

Production Numbers
* Hardtop......... 9144
* Convertible... 3096

Shipping Weight
* Hardtop........ #3825 lbs.
* Convertible.. #4040 lbs.


'Fuel Injection' emblem right side of trunk lid.

http://cthst.com/vanguardmotorsales///558H1699-6sm.jpg

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Wow, at 7% of the price of the car that fuel injection was pricey back then. That would be like a $ 3500.00 option on a new car today!

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

And here they are, the 1958 Pontiac's

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/73...4e0d754a33.jpg

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

1957 Bonneville Convertible was the first Pontiac that could be ordered with the fuel injection.

They are very nice cars and I liked that body style more than a '58.

There are some still out there and they are worth a fortune.....

Youtube has a video of at least one and it is a beauty....

You just can't drive these cars though for what they are worth and they sit in museums and collections......and rarely get driven...and would get trailered or not move at all....

Restoring rare cars like these is almost impossible....

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Looks like a misprint to me as a sedan to me meant the car has window frames and a center post.......hardtop convertibles have no window frames and no post....but Pontiac made them so I guess my thought about sedan vs hardtop must be wrong..

There was a flip down hinged moulding to make the front windows water tight on some of those old cars.......

The '58 Bonnevilles had very cool lights inside and all the Bonnevilles had tons of chrome trim.....

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

Some nice 'options' too

* Power Steering...............................$108
* Power Brakes....................................$38
* Power Windows..............................$108
* Power Seat........................................$77
* Deluxe Radio.................................$102
* Heater/Defroster...............................$96
* Dual Exhaust.....................................$31
* Two-Tone Paint.................................$27
* Padded Dashboard..........................$19
* E-Z-Eye Tinted Glass......................$38
* Bucket Seats.....................................$84
* Ever-Level Air-Ride Suspension..$175

Thanks to Mr. Semon 'Bunkie' Knudsen

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

So where would be the Chieftan post coupe that so many raced back then?

Re: Ramon Lowe 58 Pontiac
 

1958 Chieftain 2-Door Sedan

Wheelbase......... 122"
Body Length....... 210.5"
Model Series...... 27
Weight................. #3756 lbs.
Base Cost........... $2707

The entry-level Chieftain was not on the '4 Exciting Series' Sales Brochure

http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.49960...34200&pid=15.1

1968 Photo

#3756 ~ 338 HP = 11.11 Wt/Hp

G/SA = 11.00 to 11.49 Wt/Hp

Ramon Lowe knew how to dial it in with the 'Fuel Injection'.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../RamonLowe.jpg