Re: Crate Motor Class
I don't have any problems with Crate Engines, as long as, the NHRA has the specs. for Tech. to enforce. The advantage is being able to buy new castings instead of going to swap meets, and junk yards. Most Stock Eliminator stuff is more than 25 years old. It would give racers more options, without changing bodies.
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What is the difference in running these cars? They have specifications. They can be teched, same as any class car. If I get torn down, I'm illegal, I get bounced, huh, same as anyone else. As for the bracket race thing, let's see, you have a car that runs under the index and you put shoe polish on the window. And that is different from a bracket car in what way? I just don't see the strong argument here. Your $30,000 69 Camaro stocker is no better than the $500 Ford Festiva two lanes over, you're both dialing your car. IF, this is all a bunch of "hooey" and NHRA doesn't adopt the class, that's fine. Personally, I'd love to have the chance to race at the Division 3 points meets. Tod Lane and I are building our second car to run IHRA crate motor, if it's strictly S/SS combos and IHRA races, I can live with that. |
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i still don't see the big deael with NHRA and crate motor stock.......i am very satisfied with running IHRA for many many years to come
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So if crate motors aren't pure enough, how is sleeving a 454 block to 396 size pure? Or buyin edelbrock (or should i say 401 gm) heads pure? and so on and so forth. I run a bracket car currently but in the process of building a CM car, by doing this all we are doing is alleviating the hard to find rare and expensive old parts, or the new and expensive replacments. Just went to the local salvage and got a 350 vortec for $350 from a 1/2 ton truck, sure it didn't come over the counter, but most of the 396's and 427's out there have! Engine still has to be built to spec and costs $$$ but at least the price isn't double. Crate motor is just a way of bringin new racers into stock, if you don't like that idea, well i give you my regards.
Chris Chapman |
Re: Crate Motor Class
Hello People,
We already have crate motor classes in NHRA, they are called super street, super gas and super comp .... |
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Ken, is that one of billy plages cars, my car is the black 95 mustang m/cm car i live in Randleman...sorry it took so long to get back to you..
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1) Nothing Cheap about a Crate Motor Stocker. I owned 3 of them I know.
2) You can say what you want but a SS/GT car ain't a real Super Stocker either so whats the difference. 3) As long as Shoe Polish is involved it's all a bracket race and the casual fan could care less whether there is a 302 carb crate motor or a 302 efi traditional stocker. 4) Brandon it has nothing to do with why they (NHRA racers) hate crate motors they just hate IHRA in general. NHRA racers have that " My crap don't stink" attitude and we IHRA racers will always be the "REDHEADED STEPCHILDREN" to them. Chip Johnson |
Re: Crate Motor Class
NHRA doesn't like IHRA but they sure like trying to take classes from them.
Pro Mod, Top Sportsman, Top Dragster. |
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The first think NHRA would do is slap 30-40 HP on all crate motors....Oh, everyone forget how under- factored they are... I don't have a problem with crates but less get real on the HP....Then we would see how they like HP & what it costs......................................... I think we should leave well enough alone.......
If you like to run both build a stock, otherwise keep running the crate motors.. I still think crates are the biggest reason more NHRA cars don't attend IHRA, just look at Q- sheet... Until IHRA factors those motor correctly everything stay the same.. Its all about choices........ .Good Luck in 2009 |
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As i see it you can run almost anything you want in IHRA stock eliminator..still they have very limited car counts..seems like everytime they come up with another class to run in thier game they in the end uploosing car count in the end...are now NHRA willing to try the same deal? why not learn from others mistakes? because IHRA is in populated areas,according to many respect racers way,way more and so on...so whats up??
There nothing stock about stock anymore alot of people say..thats a stupid attitude that does no good at all...I say lets save NHRA stocker racing once and for all!! my .00002 |
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Re: Crate Motor Class
This is another one of those winter time topics that pops up every year. It stirs the pot for several days and then fades away. I believe this crate motor issue has been polled several times over the years by nhra racers and it always loses.
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Re: Crate Motor Class
I don't have a problem with crate motor cars. Put the correct carb on 'em, a little safety equipment, and let 'em run Super Stock. I'm sure there's a class they'd fit right in. AND they can even run their IHRA big tires. Come on over to NHRA, the waters just fine! (PS; bring your wallet.)
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it loses because the fear of change
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1. Most of the hardcore old school racers do not want the class any further diluted than it has already become. 2. A lot of people saw what crate motors have done to other motor sports, and don't like it. |
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so fear of change doesn't fit in any of those how????
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Alan ......Amen!
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what have crate motors done to other motor sports
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Come on Dave! (Ribeiro) Don't you want to put a 502 in that Firebird? LOL!! Just think..no more being let-out every round. I'll talk MacNeish into putting an LS2 in that 67 Z28! We don't need 10" tires. LOL!!
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Re: Crate Motor Class
NHRA Stock Eliminator already has more than enough classes.
We already have AA/SA thru W/SA and AA/S thru W/S, plus A thru E front wheel drive automatic and stick classes. That's 56 classes in one eliminator. Why would we need or want to add another 16-20 classes? A crate motor is just a different engine you have to round up parts for and pay a professional to build. The only difference is you can go to the dealer and buy the parts instead of beating the brush pile. We already have tons of accepted aftermarket "replacement parts" that have to be constantly refactored. Blocks, heads, intakes, carburetors, you name it. Some of them aren't even sold by the original manufacturer, much less made by them. We already have enough bogus combinations and under factored combinations to choke a horse. There's no need to add to the pile. We already have enough classes that anyone who wants to can build a car and never see another like it all year, and probably never see a heads up race or a race to win class. We don't need to add to that pile either. We already have a truck load of stuff NHRA evidently cannot properly handle a technical inspection on, and enough questionable standards to last any dozen tech men who want to do their job a life time. |
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They have practically destroyed grass roots circle track racing. I've been racing for thirty years, and never have I seen so much blatant BS and cheating as I have since they let crate motors in local circle tracks. The most healthy circle track classes do not allow them. |
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In roundy round racing real Crate Motors have brought a level playing field and great competition at tracks where rules are enforced. In dragracing counterfeit Crate Motors have diluted Stock Eliminator because of bogus low horsepower factoring. Just look at the qualifying sheets. P.S. It won't take long to read them with such low car counts. |
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so the main reason is you say NHRA doesn't need anymore classes.....thats fine....by the was i didn't hire a professional 15 to 20 thoussand dollar engine builder to build my motor i hired my dad...lol...i see everybodies point on the subject..i just wanted to know why and what the big deal was if NHRA had crate motor cars..
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don't give me qualifying sheet b/s ive seen some of NHRA qualifying sheets -1.50 and higher
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stocker 2.....do you cry when a crate motor stocker out qualifies a "traditional" stocker........its just a race if you qualify low who cares
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Last time I was at the local circle track that allowed crate motors I saw a dozen "sealed":rolleyes: crate motors that were supposed to have 9:1 compression a 230 degree duration cams that I can guarantee you have at least 11.5:1 compression and at least 245 degree duration camshafts. There's an entire cottage industry built around bogus and counterfeit "tamper proof":rolleyes: bolts, and near any cam grinder will regrind a crate motor cam and get you 20HP and 500 RPM. They're next to impossible to get serviced around here, and the price is outrageous. I know a couple of people that were charged 50% the cost of a new engine for some head work they needed because of parts failures. The first one around here sucked an intake valve in 150 laps. And when it was first started on the dyno it hit on only 6 out of 8 cylinders, and after that was fixed it was still down 15HP. No, they are not all created equal. |
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Cheating is cheating. Sounds like your circle track's problem isn't the crate motors... :rolleyes:
I do agree with your "NHRA Stock Eliminator already has more than enough classes." post, Alan. |
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I agree that cheating is cheating. That was a response to how great crate motors have been for circle track racing. At the circle tracks, crate motors were brought in to reduce the amount of tech inspection required and "level the playing field":rolleyes:. Track operators decided that if the crate motor had the bolts in it, it couldn't be cheated up.:eek: It has not worked out that way. I know racers who have been DQ'd over an aftermarket distributor module (no rule against it in the book) when racing against engines everyone knew were cheated up. But you could see the module without removing a "tamper proof":rolleyes: bolt. That is a common thread throughout circle track racing. "Sealed" crate motors have increased cheating and wrecked the playing field, rather than what they were supposed to do. The problem with more and more classes is that you cannot be everything to everyone, it cannot be done. What you end up with is a circus, and racers and race fans come to race a race or see a race, not a circus. Eventually, the racers and race fans leave, and the circus fans get bored with that particular circus and go look for another one. Thing is, all the racers and race fans have all gone on to something else, so then the racing dies off. |
Re: Crate Motor Class
Brandon, the crate motor classes lose in the polls because the majority of the racers don't want them. Not because of fear.
There are dozens of inexpensive Stock eliminator cars available right now. Buy one and go nhra and IHRA stock eliminator racing. How hard is that? |
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its not hard bruce...my car used to be nhra leagal i just wanted to know why nhra doesn't accept crate motors thats all.....im not saying i would even run nhra if crate motor was allowed its just my opinions verses everyone else...i agree with mike beard,alan,and you there are so many classes in both bodies...all i wanted to know is why all the fuss and stuff over crate mo
tor cars in nhra.....thats all i needed to know P.S. Alan ive been at the top of the sheet at division races it does feel good...im not a braket racer that just happend to be in a class car... i might not have a amazing career in class racing but i have runnerd up at a national and have won many s/ss combos and plenty of semis and finals in ihra and s/ss combos im only a 3rd year racer in a 40 year racing family...like i said i just wanted to hear reason crate motors not being in nhra |
Re: Crate Motor Class
Brandon, You may as well give up on this one buddy.
These guys are die hards. They probably don't know the crate motor rules either. If you guys paid attention to weight breaks and indexes you would understand why crate motors are at the top of the sheet so easy. A lot of crate motor racers work harder on their combos than traditional class racers. But to most, crate motor and IHRA are the "red headed step child" to most of the NHRA racers. But this is just the way it will always be. It is just a glorified bracket race with a bunch of hooligans! |
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your right lee, we have put in countless hours on our car and years you know that as well as others do..im just not going to surrender on the subject like they want us ihra racers to......red headed step child for life...buddy
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Let's see now ,hit them 30/40 hp. yeah that's fair I see you have a problem running a guy that's racing on a budget.. OH, now it's NHRA cars don't attend because of crate motors ? That's a smart one David I believe Rockingham last fall had alot of NHRA cars'''You must have missed it.. If you want to run both NHRA & IHRA build another car, yeah like that's a another smart move today It's all a bracket race when the real race start's.... I'll bet the Crate motor car's are more stock than most of the stocker's.. What stocker ever came with a lap top? |
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A little bit of healthy competition is good for everyone isn't it?
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